Why are Videoslots in the Predatory section?

Discussion in 'VideoSlots Affiliates' started by KasinoKing, Dec 10, 2015.

  1.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    IMHO any affiliate program who hides, removes, &/or actively takes steps to camouflage, &/or conceal statistical data from their affiliate partners, should ALL be thrown in the Doghouse (aka rogue pit).

    Some may argue the point... Oh but they pay on time. My reply to that is... Without specifics such as deposit, bonus (comps etc) and withdrawal data, you have no idea if a program is Kosher, or are they robbing you blind. More often, the later is closer to the truth!!!

    Hiding stats is akin to BS. There's not need for it. And...It's only ever used to hide the truth.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  2.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Agree with AussieDave.

    Payments on time is just one of many parameters that should decide if a program is rogue or not. I would rather work with a program that is transparent ant not paying on time every month, than working with a non-transparent program that pays on time (like Videoslots).
     
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  3.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Agreed, and if the truth (that is all the hidden fees etc) was known, what you received as commission would likely be a pittance to what you should be receiving. I've brought this up before...

    However I'll say it again... VS deduct game fees, and associated Admin costs (whatever the F**k that means) before giving players their cashback. But affiliates are also hit with games fees, and Admin costs.

    How is it possible to hit both parties with indentical fees!!!
     
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  4.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    I have covered all this before and 100% am not going to fight with any of you as I have too much respect for you all and your industry.

    Its something that we are well aware of and are working on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  5.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Wouldn't surprise me in the least, if the weekly (now at 60K) slot races prize pool, is being garnished from affiliates in bogus fees etc.
     
  6.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Expecting a program to display data, which I'll add VS promised they'd reinstate BUT Never Did. If this is in your mind "playing this game", then I really need to question your ethics mate.

    You came here speaking BIG talk, but now can't walk it... Sorry, but just telling as it is.

    Let me add... a few weeks back a payment option went down. ALL STOPS were PULLED OUT to have this issue resolved, damn quick smart. Yet a few hours work to reinstate the promised stats, well... There's just too much BS being floated here Miles... just saying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  7.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    Your frustrations have been noted and taken on board we are working on things as soon as i have more information I will feedback to you all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Actually, you have made a lot of excuses. If I am not wrong it was something about some slow Maltese workers & also not enough recourses to implement the changes needed + other priorities. We all know these changes would take a couple of days MAXIMUM to implement. If you don't believe me, I am willing to pay for developers to do it for you.

    The thing is that reporting to your customers/clients/partners is absolute minimum when it comes to a successful business relationship. This is hardly news to anyone at Videoslots. This just highlights how shady this business can be and how badly the affiliate part needs to be included in the regulation system. This would never fly in a regular business relationship between an ad agency and a publisher/partner/customer. You would be flagged as rogue and be out of partners in no-time. The word would spread. The problem here is that there is a lot of money at stake and that you have many partners being stuck with a rev share deal. That is the only thing saving you in terms of affiliate marketing in my opinion.

    This is not a mistake from Videoslot's side. When Videoslots built the new back-end, Videoslots did not include basic stats that should have been there in the first place. I don't buy the thing that nobody knew or that you ran out of time/money/manpower. It is so apparent that this was done deliberately and with full knowledge of what it will mean both long-term and short-term. I have been promised multiple times by previous affiliate managers from Videoslots that all stats will be there for the new launch of the new system. Those promises have been broken, just like so many others from Videoslots. Everything points at that you are hiding something. Until Videoslots proves us otherwise that is what most affiliates will think about you. That VS being willing to stain its reputation like this manifests that something fishy is going on - but it seems like it still worth it for VS.

    Just dare to fix your system, be 100% transparent, start thinking about your branding and partner relationships and rebuild your reputation. I promise you that you will come out in the other end with more money in your pockets and healthy partnerships. Win-win for all.

    You (Miles) are representing Videoslots so frankly I don't care if you are new at work or not. If you feel that you can't be blamed for the poor system you should send someone else that can answer to why and when we will have a functional basic system.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  9.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    All affiliates have received from VS is lip service, peppered with maybes, LOTS of carrot dangling, and reneged promises. You yourself (Miles) have admitted your mandate of employment at VS is not about forcing change. On your own admission, (AGD public forum) you've said, you do not have the authority to call the shots!

    Apprently the CEO of VS Alexander was telling affiliates at LAC the missing stats data will be reinstated post haste, But that hasn't happened, has it (more broken promises)....

    Seems the source of (justified) BSing affiliates, flows from the head-of-the-snake to the VS tail... just sayin!

    I don't see anyone from VS who has the authority to make/force changes, coming to AGD (or any other affiliate forum), to discuss in open and sincere dialogue, what VS intend to do to re-establish 100% transparency - what VS have promised to returned (but to date have reneged on). Instead, all I see is you (Miles) making excuses for VS and playing games of semantics.

    Being a good bloke/AM/new-at-work are all moot points...
    I'm starting to question if VS employed you because of your good rep with affiliates, and are using you solely for that purpose.

    Most affiliates are not goofs. We have skill sets across many programming displines. So feeding us BS about time constrants, Maltese Mentality, or the many other blantant excuses we've been feed, starts to run very thin, when we know damn well, to reinstate these removed stats, would take a programmer a few hours to have these stats returned to the aff backend.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  10.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    We have added 2 Reports that have all this information Now available so we are fully transparent and even maybe more than others. If you have not seen these we have added a Deposit and Withdrawal Report showing this information + a Breakdown report showing NGR, GGR, Taxes, fees, Bonuses, etc everything that an affiliate would need is now there .. I would like to request we get removed from Predatory. it took time but we have moved forward and are not deserving of this title Thanks
     
  11.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Yes, the reports are great (even though they have lots of bugs). Well done!

    However, I think you still deserve to be in the predatory section because of you avoiding to answer simple questions - especially regarding the admin fees. What you say about the admin fee is just not true and I think you know it. This is a fee that was recently added and you can't admit it now. Just because your word is coming "straight from the top" (Alex?) does not mean that it is true. Previous AMs (such as Lucas Godwin) said there was no admin fee when he worked at VS. You say it has been there all the time. When asking a while ago at a conference one of your AMs said it was 20%. Now it is 25%. This fee is new and you have increased in in 2017 but you don't want to admit that because then everybody will know that you lied. Not very professional of you at all.

    Trust is something that is earned over time. It takes a long time to build up trust but it can also be lost in a very short period of time. This is the case with Videoslots. Stop asking for trust and just earn it instead! Why not start by coming clean about the admin fees?
     
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  13.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    I'm also in agreement with "gobo" on his synopsis.

    Affiliates on lets say 40% RevShare, in actually fact when ALL the absurd fees etc,. etc., etc., are deducted, are only being paid (approx) 5.89% in real money terms.

    This 40% is not only highly misleading, but factually untrue. IMHO VS should remain in the predatory section because of this.

    The same 'hoodwink' is aligned to the cashback (Booster) given to players. The 25% on ALL spin, when crunched, and fees deduction, works out at a pitiful 0.33% to 0.39% wagering cashback. A far, far cry, and very distant reality to the touted 25%.

    If VS want to exit this place of ill repute, then I'd suggest they start paying their affiliates, what is generally accepted commissions % within the industry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  15.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    I can't comment on what happened in the past Lucas etc. I have always Known the admin fee to be 25% and it was always a fee that is added and will continue to be added. If there was a miscommunication of the 20% Vs 25% I can only apologize for that but I have only known it to be 25% No one is. It has never been hidden and it was always around it's not a new cost nor is it new to the industry the fact we have shown all fees now is far fairer than it was in the past and should show we are trying to bring our program up to scratch and in some cases have outshone the competition.

    Regarding the commission again we show our fees now and its there for all to see I have seen from the AGD audits that we are not the worst there are others that seem to hide far more and affiliates seem to get far less than what they do from Us.

    The reason e changed the Cashback to Booster is that we released that this was poor marketing and we corrected it.

    I am here to assist you in getting fixes and things moving in the right direction please try as hard as it is to refrain from attacking me as a person or character as I think that's uncalled for and unfair.

    For me, we were called correctly on the Non-Transparency question and have done our best to come to the party there and some and will continue to improve over time.

    Affiliates have the choice to choose who they work with and who they don't and if you feel you're being unfairly rewarded we have said talk to us and we can talk about your deal .. but we are not a predatory program. Predatory is a term used for men that wait for Kids outside parks or a Lion who wants to kill his pray that a predator. We are adding more and more things to our player facing product to make sure we retain players longer so, in the long run, you will earn for a longer period of time with us as your players won't leave the casino for our competition .. our retention is 5 x as good as the nearest even if our affiliate program needs work we still are a great casino and great company to work with.
     
  16.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Give us a break. There was no sign or trace of any admin fees before you launched the new platform.

    These are just assumptions from your side. There is no good way to compare this so please spare us guesses like these. Every AMs likes to say that their program has the best CR and the best retention.
     
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  18.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    @ Gobbo I cant say more on the admin fee you've made up your mind there I am just stating the facts as I know this to be.

    There is a way to do this for sure I have not assumed anything . its Fact we have been shown by certain game providers that our players spend 5 x Longer playing in their games at our casino than at other brands who offer the same games so we base it on these types of facts. We also have our battle of slots product on which we don't make money it's for players and is used for retention. Players would rather play a Battle using their 2 or 3 Euros and hang around the casino than play a few spins and move on so no assumptions here.
     
  19.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    That would be a fair statement, IF... the VS aff program didn't use smoke, mirrors and trickery to get affiliates to signup in the 1'st place.

    When VS were rallying to obtain affiliates (at CAP) in the beginning, Lucas was offering 60% Life Time Rev Share. That's an impossible figure. I knew it was a load of bollocks, a con... Turns out I was right!

    The chats and deals, all amount to diddly squat Miles. You know it, I know it, affiliates who have supported the program from the start, are now realising it too.

    Bespoke deals of 40%, are SLASHED to 5.89% real commission. So the poor suckers on the 25% base, are getting royally taken to the cleaners.

    You say your an honest, and a fair affiliate manager. But you continue to work for an aff program who are screwing their affiliates blind... And, worse, you come here and start making excuses and justification for that bad behaviour.

    At the end of the day VS aff program pays your wages. And, clearly your alliances lay with them, even if that means selling out your integrity and soul.

    "Predatory" also means - seeking to exploit others.

    VS aff program has well and truly earned their spot in the "Predatory" Section of AGD ;)

    Edit:
    With respect to you usual response, "I can't comment on what happened in the past"... That's just another deflection, and a 'talk to the hand' comment. If this gig turns sour for you, you'd make a good used cars salesperson. Maybe you try your hand at that!
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  21.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    Please, don't attack me personally this forum is meant to protect affiliates, allow people to voice there views it's not the domain for personal insults or attacks, it's not fair and its insulting to me as an individual who has always tried my best to serve the industry. Say what you like about the casinos and how you feel about the products but please keep personal defamation out of the picture its really below you
     
  22.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Dude... I'm only calling it, from how you, yourself, have chosen to represent it. Shooting me for your own self imposed fabrications, and misrepresentation of the truth/facts, ain't my doing. Those alone, have been your sole choices. Even if your directed by your employer to present such rot, you still have a personal choice whether to do that or not.

    Your choice to assist VS aff program in continuing to delude, and hide the truth from VS affiliates, continues, even in this thread now.

    Reciting the quote from my avatar...
    The Problem is not the problem: the problem is your attitude about the problem.

    Meaning, in this context...I'm not the problem here, you are.
     
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  24.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Sorry Dave - but I have to say you are really out of line (again!) with your recent posts in this thread.
    AFAIK you don't even work with Videoslots and never have - so why all these constant attacks?

    My deal of 40% is 40%. It's 40% of NGR - there are no lies here.
    The fact that NGR ends up being terribly low after all the fees and deductions from GGR is a different issue.
    VS may or may not have bigger fees and deductions than other programs - it's hard to tell because very few (if any) detail out exactly what all their deductions are.

    After years of asking for it - affiliates now get more transparency from VS than any other program I can think of. Yes, it was VERY frustrating having to wait so long for this - but it's here now, so lets not dwell on the past.

    Each of us now have ALL the facts & figures and can decide to promote VS or not.

    There are MANY programs with terms I don't like - so I don't work with them. But I don't go round the forums attacking them for having those terms.

    KK
     
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    Shay

    Shay Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Is this thread being edited? I do not see anything that I'd deem personally attacking (I began reading where the thread was bumped).

    Miles, is someone PM'ing you "personal attacks"? If so, not cool at all.
     
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