Struggling to earn - maybe why

Discussion in 'VideoSlots Affiliates' started by AussieDave, May 24, 2016.

  1.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    For the record, I asked Lucas (ex VS AM) the same question (mutliple times), back when VS commenced (2011/12?). Instead of just coming out and stating each item and their respected "charge" value, I got the usual 'smoke and mirors' treatment.

    When I didn't let up, Lucas got shitty.
    I'm always suspect on motives/agendas when simple, straight forward answers are not forthcoming...
     
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  2.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    That's where your very wrong .. Speak to any player playing with Videoslots and you'll her the same things " The Casino is Great " .." We Love to Play etc" Casinomeister Awards , IGA Awards .. The Casino is winning awards all over the place and from Players voting so yes it is special and we are entitled to hold some cards close to our chests , are we not when the competiiton is trying to catch You .

    There is some information you just cant make public for fear these ideas would be copied and your intellectual property and competitive advantage is taken away from you because too much information is given away.

    I have said this numerous times here we put our hands up our affiliate product needs lots of work but there is 100% nothing wrong with our casino product nor with the owners making profit out of a business they spent there money on creating that's what any new business wants to be a success isn't it..

    So please don't confuse making money with a weak affiliate product .. players would not play at the casino if it was not a great offering
     
  3.  
    casinonewbie

    casinonewbie Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Lucas was just a puppet for these guys had the same dealings with him over & over ....
     
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  4.  
    casinonewbie

    casinonewbie Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    They can start paying G for some traffic & see how "special" that feels :D
     
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  5.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    There is no way I'm going to get shitty or lippy with any affiliates I have too much respect for the community to do that and have found out in the past to my detriment that its not the way things get resolved .. we resolve things by discussing issues and talking about them like adults and you've all made your points very clear and we have heard them..

    The fact I cant discuss every detail of our business on a public forum is simple its not allowed and I am restricted by policies.

    At he end of the day the casino and its owners have had to abide by a strict set of guidelines in order to get Licensed as operators in the UK, Curucau .Malta soon to be in Denmark and Romania if there was any Smoke and Mirrors or anything outside of the normal would it not have come out when doing the compliance checks etc ?

    We are not hiding or doing anything our competition isn't and what most online casinos are...expect not giving affiliates a system to proud of and that's being worked on
     
  6.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Miles, I never said you would. What I said was... Lucas got shitty because I kept pushing him to answer my questions about the VS aff fees and their respective charge value ;)

    If VS is not hiding anything, then there shouldn't be any problem with full-disclosing, hey!

    Just so we're ALL on the same page here, VS chose to remove the deposit/withdrawal data... That sure looks a lot like someone trying to hide stuff... just sayin...
     
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  7.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    I don't think withdrawals was ever shown from the old reports I've seen and I don't believe many programs do show this as for deposits I realize its a key metric for you and we have put this forward as one of the things we would like to see added back its being looked at
     
  8.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    "we are left totally in the dark"... what was that about "hiding"? nuff said ;)
     
  9.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    Dave i openly said that the affiliate system is not what it used to be or should be .. Hands up admitted it.

    There is a plan to improve it and hopefully the things you have asked for will be implemented.

    I also want a system where i dont have to come to the forum every day to defend it .

    We know there are issues it takes time to fix things as i say there are other things on the go that have taken priority for the moment.

    No one is forcing VS onto affiliates or holding a gun to your heads to force you to work with us
    affiliate have a choice to work with whom ever they choose .

    Some have all ready stated there feelings here " fix the issues you have and we will choose your program if you dont well we will take our business elsewhere " etc ect.

    Its in our Interests to make sure we get the program to some sort of level of acceptance in the community.

    You all clearly have respect for the Casino product so give me time ..us time to rectify what issues we have with the affiliate system.

    We have discussed and put forward all concerns and if we cant get these sorted we will have to face the inevitable but it wont be from lack of effort from our team i promise you that and we are doing everything we can
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  10.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I have a few questions that I really would like to get answers to from Miles or any other representative from VS here in public:

    1. How exactly is affiliate commission calculated? From the T&C: "Your Revenue Share is calculated from the casino’s earnings of Your referred players minus Our game license fee, casino bonuses, operational costs, jackpot fees, regulator taxes, bank fees and chargebacks.". Exactly how much is the license fee, operational costs, regulatory taxes and bank fees? The word "license fee" does not explain much, neither does "operational costs". Is it a percentage per bet? Is it a fixed %?

    2. When the license fees, regulatory taxes, and bank fees are being deducted - do we as affiliates carry 100% of these fees/taxes or do we share according to the rev share deal?

    3. In your opinion, what are the cons of showing the withdrawal data to affiliates?

    4. In your opinion, what are the cons of showing deposit counts and deposit sums for each player?

    5. In your opinion, what are the cons of showing Bet Sum and Win Sum for each player?

    The terms and calculations between the affiliate and you cannot be a secret, can it?. In a business relationship these numbers should be clearly visible and known by both parties, don't you agree? If you agree I really would appreciate you explaining them for me so that I understand more clearly because now I really don't. I just see a number every day when I log in which is yesterday's commission. That number seems quite random to me since I don't know what has been deducted. These numbers are vital for us affiliates so that we can compare performance between affiliate programs and spend money where money should be spent.
     
  11.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    I have worked with many programs in the past where some information was shown and some not .

    I have given you the reasons to why we cant show certain things in previous posts and cant keep coming back to the same things ..

    We used to show the information then a business decision was taken to not show it .

    I am not privy to why this decision was taken I am here to assist with affiliate issues and try increase business along the way ..

    Not all affiliate programs show the details your asking me for each program takes a decision to show what they feel is necessary to show or can show depending on the capabilities of there respective affiliate system or what is decided by the people that run the operations for whatever reasons but its their business decision.

    I've said it and will repeat it one last time we understand that it was available in the past and we are working on trying to0 get as much information for affiliates as we can but I cant be put on the spot and asked to share information here that is not available in at a lot of programs not just ours and some cases confidential.

    So please understand that I can only do what I can to make sure the program understands the issues and we resolve them to the best of our abilities .

    Apologies if this is vague but I would really like to see any program manager answer the questions your asking me to divulge .

    Where possible we share the costs with affiliates and we try make it a fair partnership affiliates that drive volume to us are earning a good living from revenue we pay them.

    I'm sorry but that's the last I can say on the issue as I feel I'm going around in circles ..
     
  12.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I am not asking you why you can't show things - that you have tried to explain many times in this thread. I am asking you to clarify the terms and conditions. You have not done that in previous posts. And this is the essence of the problem. You have no interest in being transparent. You are not willing to talk about the basic stuff like how commissions are calculated. Do you really still ask yourselves why people tend to be suspicious, reluctant towards you? Why threads like these keep popping up on the different affiliate forums?

    All this talk about that you give "big chunk of cash back" is not affecting the bottom line for the affiliates that much. It is something else and you are just keeping us guessing since you have trouble breaking the calculation down for us. I have to say that I really like the casino and how the players seem to like it. We all agree on that.

    And please don't blame the different affiliate systems for not being able to show different metrics. Everything is possible if you want and it is already in the database. It's just a matter of DB-queries and presentation. The admins can clearly see these fees and deductions - it would be stupid not to be able to see it. I can implement these stats for the affiliates in a few hours for you if you have trouble with the Maltese mentality when it comes to working fast. That these changes will take a year to do is just nonsense. Say as it is - the management does not want to share this info.

    I'm fed up with affiliate programs that have no interest in being transparent. I so look forward to the casino and an affiliate program that is 100% transparent and puts pressure on programs like Videoslots to follow suit.

    Also, regarding the regulations in different markets - none of them state how the affiliate business should be run or not be run. There is no framework at all. So please don't mix casino regulations with the affiliate business in terms of standards and what stats are being shown to the affiliates. You can basically do whatever you want to the affiliates - we will never know.

    I have to say also that your job is not easy. Not a nice start getting a job at Videoslots and having to defend this behavior.
     
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  13.  
    DaftDog

    DaftDog Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Wouldn't it be more cost effective to use an off the shelf affiliate software package for your affiliate program? VS owners appear to be trying to re-invent the wheel with regard to this.
     
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  14.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    This is what I don't get too - and in some ways that just adds to the suspicions.
    It took them about a YEAR to launch their current back-end... and then it was crap after all that.
    Surely it would be FAR easier, quicker & cheaper to buy an "off the shelf" solution? :confused:

    KK
     
  15.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    That is so true. The first thing I said to Miles when he told me he was moving to VS was "I hope that is a joke! :eek:" and then "Good luck with that!"
    I don't think he knew exactly what he was heading into - but I did.

    Pretty sure this will be his toughest job yet - and I wish him all the very best of luck with it :cool:

    KK
     
  16.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    "the Maltese mentality" etc., etc., more of the same semantics, deflections and excuses, just worded differently.

    Quoting my avatar -
    The problem is not the problem: the problem is you attitude about the problem. (VS pay your wages Miles. Hence, as you've said, you can't force management to change.)

    VS affiliates already know things aren't kosher - VS Management, know they know it. But...instead of just coming clean, and embracing 100% transparency, they continue to pile on the BS.

    Lets be frank here, hiding stats-data from affiliate partners isn't being ethical, is it!

    Of course it would.
    However proprietary (custom) software, allows VS to use all manner of excuses and deflections, to avoid being 100% transparent.

    EG:

    ---------

    At the end of the day, Miles's heart is in the right spot.
    I highly doubt he'd stay at a program, if or when he realised, they were using tactics to screw their affiliates.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    100% accuracy right there. If they wanted to display it, they would. It takes weeks at best to implement something. I could add Deposits and Withdrawals in an hour from a database to a website. Love ya Miles, but this is spot-on.... the program doesn't WANT to be transparent as far as I can tell.

    I know you are a good dude, so I hope your efforts prove fruitful. But I don't believe it will ever happen. If there were a chance of it, you would have sang that tune. Management has to be telling you no. Coding it is simple.
     
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  18.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    It's their own custom aff software, pulling the DB-stats, and coding it to display, a developer/programmer can do that with their eyes closed, in the shake of a lamb's tails ;)
     
  19.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Let me rephrase that: I have trouble with casinos who say they are transparent or say they will become transparent "soon" but still does not share basic things with the affiliates. Action speaks louder than words.

    If this was a bug in the casino payment system the "maltese mentality" would fix it in less than 2 minutes.

    Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
     
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  20.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    Guys ,

    I'm all for affiliates always have been and always will be .

    Its gotten me into a lot of trouble in the past with employees because I have taken your side over the hand that feeds me.

    Yes my heart is in the right place 100% sure ..are my hands tied maybe but my mouth can keep motoring..

    as I have said and will stand by this that we have as the Affiliate Team from HOD down put our concerns down .

    We have put a plan together of improvement we want and yes we also want to see more transparency for everyone it make the job a lot easier.

    Currently as I've said our developers are working on the Danish License and the complexities of that are huge its where there time has been focused when this project
    has been finalized more time will be spent on upgrading the affiliate side of things.

    I cant say for sure if all the things we requested will be added or not but ultimalrty I have a job to do and will do it to the best of my abilities and with the tools I have on hand.

    Again and I must reiterate this .. as an affiliate you have a choice . if your unhappy or feel there is a lack of transparency or whatever your gripe with the product is at present you have the option of taken
    your business elsewhere and we cant stop that form happening . now I would be foolish to say this is what I wanted to see and I don't but ultimately you can..

    Yes we could go buy an off the shelf product and use that but the guys just don't want to do it they have the skills here to correct what they have and have created a great casino without having to outsource anything so that wont happen.

    I'm sorry I am trying and I'm hoping that my fight and mouth get things sorted or as best I can but I cant do more than that ..

    If the Casino takes collateral damage and loses affiliate and affiliate business because of the lack of transparency and poor reporting you have pointed out then it would be on our shoulders as you have made you voices heard loud and clear .. I really cant comment more
     

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