Struggling to earn - maybe why

Discussion in 'VideoSlots Affiliates' started by AussieDave, May 24, 2016.

  1.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Opened a player account at Video Slots over the weekend.
    As a player, all I can say is WOW!!!

    Talk about get looked after...
    • 25% cash back ever week - no wagering
    • Weekly slots ladder - no wagering on winnings
    • Abundance of free play spins given - some also come with no wagering
    It's insane how well a player gets looked after here. Not to mention, winnings are paid to Neteller within minutes :)

    With all the above, it's no wonder affiliates are battling to make money here... Glad I didn't promote them.

    As a players though, this place rocks!
     
  2.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Yes, this is exactly what I have stated a few times on the forum.
    VS is GREAT for players, not so great for affiliates.
    My earnings there average about 3-4% of deposits = probably the lowest of any program I promote.

    What I am still struggling to get my head round though, is how they deal with the cash-back and race winnings:
    They deduct these monies off the gross revenue.
    But if you are giving a player back some money he just lost, and then he loses it again - why is that deducted?
    e.g.
    Player loses £100. Casino GGR = £100.
    Casinos gives £20 cash back. Casino NGR = £100 - £20 = £80
    But if the player loses that £20 again, surely the NGR should be £100...?
    However, I can see that once the £100 lost, the £20 belongs to the casino, so why should they pay commission on it if it's lost by the player...?
    Oh poop - my head is spinning again! :confused:

    And Videoslots STILL don't have the new Affy back-end they said in Feb was coming in March...
    I will definitely be grabbing them at AAC to discuss these issues again...

    KK
     
  3.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Well it shouldn't be... Double Entry Bookkeeping 101
    • Casino gives player $100 - Casino down $100
    • Player loses $100 back to casino - Casino is square.
    Neither player or casino is + or minus $100.

    If anything else other than this is taking place then you need to jump on it ;)

    EDIT: commission is not paid on the $100 because it was given, then lost back, meaning, it squared the loss/profit back to $0. This is a prime example of why affiliates need access to all this type of data, otherwise we're flying blind and that's when confusion and mistrust seep in...just sayin!
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
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    Zuga

    Zuga Administrator Staff Member

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    They are a great bunch of ppl and players love them thats for sure, but yes their bonus deductions and other fees are high and not much in it for the affiliates.
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with @KasinoKing and @Bet4You ... This, to me, is akin to the 'Manager Credits' fiasco that [I think] Gambling Wages pulled quite a few years before they got more on the straight and narrow? Or was it someone else? Either way, it was a similar double-dipping. They gave away manager credits to reduce commissions and never put them back into the commissions-mix even after those credits were lost.

    This, to me, is a similar rogue activity.
     
  6.  
    Kadabra

    Kadabra Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I don't promote them due to all the reviews I read here, but a casino where the netgaming is 15% of deposits just doesn't make sense to me. with processing fees and all, the ends just can't meet.
     
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    Zuga

    Zuga Administrator Staff Member

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    they gained on player loyalty but losing on affiliates...
     
  8.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    It was Gambling wages I believe and also other RTG casinos too. Not all of them but some.

    The thing is, if you look at how this is setup... It's as if, the affiliate program gets affiliates to send traffic, to get them players but then, the casino gives away so much (no wagering) comps and also shares and addition 25% of profit with the players , again wager-free, there is nothing left for the affiliates.

    Essential the casino gets players for free or very little outlay. That's how I see it anyway... I think the only way yto make money with VideoSlots as an affiliate is to only accept a CPA.

    Lets not forget the owner of VideoSlots was a casino affiliate himself... It's all over at the GPWA if you care to search for the nitty gritty past of the owner.

    I'm standing with GD on this one - similar rogue activity.

    Edit: However unlike most rogues who hoodwink players and affiliates, VideoSlots looks after their players extremely well. In fact I'd say their one of the most generous casino's I've known, from being a player since 97'. Reiterating, they pay winnings lightning fast!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    You have see the history of an individual player either by player id/name (if that is available) or by setting up a unique sub-campaign link and have someone join through it and view the stats for that sub campaign only.
     
  10.  
    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I might add the 25% cash back has to treated like a deposit because the casino could actually deposit it in their bank if the didn't give it.
     
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  11.  
    dfiocch

    dfiocch Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Same old stories...
    I proactively promote VS, they are a brand great for players and players definitively love them.

    But earnings suxs...
    BTW, i'm pushing them and I will do it in the future. Players first.
     
  12.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    I can't comment cause I don't promote them. But that' an interesting observation to raise.

    Use to promote 32Red et al, they made me sweet FA in 6 years but the motivation at the time wasn't the money. Though back then I could afford to do that. These days with my site real estate, I can't be as generous. However, I still promote brands, who look after players. Difference being, if any of these "great" brands aren't giving ROI, I change over to someone who does.
     
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It doesn't add up for me, if affiliates are only getting 4-15 out of every 100 taken in, where is the other 85%-96% going, that is a lot of overhead.
     
  14.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Players receive 25% cash-back on ALL slots play. However that's paid on the theoretical RTP. Plus they also deduct that magic word "admin fees" from the cash-back. Which, when you break it down to real money, it's only 5% cash-back.

    That's where I don't understand why affiliates are also HIT with "admin fees".

    Sounds too much like double-dipping to me... just sayin!

    Should add, there is also the $50,000 weekly casino races. "Each of the races will reward the top 4864 players who have collected the most spins with a cash prize." Yes, that's paid in cash, no wagering required ;)

    VS is certainly well like. I personally can't fault them as a player. Winnings paid out 24/7 (paid in less than 1 hour if $1,000 or less). Though and reiterating... As a HR VIP, their business model seems focused towards low-rollers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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    Biti

    Biti Active Member

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    I promote them because players appreciate it.

    On the short term, I perhaps do not make any money with them. Their cost structure is a bit high, which makes it difficult to make some money with them in a short period.

    But... I strongly believe in the end it's all about the players. Some day I've started my website (s) to tell players which casino is good and where they better stay away. Those statements are based on player perspective and they still are. Of course I try to get the best deal out of it, but in the end, a casino has to be a good place for a player.

    If they are, I send them traffic, if they are not, I do not send them any traffic. On the longer term players do appreciate that. And for my own pocket, I better have a player playing for years at a casino he loves, but with higher fees, than sending him to some clown casino with a 400% bonus + 60% commission and where he leaves after the first discussion about dodgy bonus terms, slow payments, etc.

    Also, on the long term casinos with a commission of 50% and 10% costs have simply no business case if they want to operate legal, pay their players on time, do some competitive bonuses, etc. For now, it's all about getting your share until most markets are regulated. A regulation also like a start of a race. As in every race, many participators do not reach the finish line.
     
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  16.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    HI Guys,

    Just to wade in here all be it Very Late and the fact I'm very new to the company and still learning the product and the affiliate side of things.

    There are a few things here that I would like to raise I feel this brand is by far the best one I've been at in 13 years of doing this for players.

    The Casino is a Players Casino its been set up for Players not VIPs your average every day to day player is happy here and they keep coming back to play over and over again.

    Yes they give away a large chunk of cash back to players and this effects affiliate commissions - but its all about keeping players happy and coming back which they are and as an affiliate you want to see I would think?

    casinomeister - 2016/ meister_awards best/bestgamingexperience2016
    casinomeister-2016/meister_awards/2016/best/bestcasinomanager2016

    As far as affiliate earnings goes it is a hard one to balance do you look after players needs or is it all about profit and earnings for affiliates here it seems its about the players and as I say not VIP Players all players.

    Its the only program I think that offers 3 Chances of earnings on sign up dependent on your preferences these are tiered but give affiliates the chance to earn Rev Share, Hyrbid or CPA from day 1 all depends on how you set up your campaigns and links its one way to compensate for the lack of Rev Share if this is the option you are on now .. they are all dependent on affiliate performance but these can be discussed on an individual basis with your account manager and a deal that suits your preference I'm sure can be negotiated if the standard tiered deals are not what your after as we want your business.

    However not all roses the affiliate program is lacking in a lot of areas and that is what they have bought in a team of experienced people to oversee the program , make changes and get it up to scratch and to a standard that is not only Industry Normal but matches the casino product from every aspect.

    It will take time and we have set ourselves a Target of January 2018 before we see a program that we are proud of this could change as the list is a long one.

    It is Functional and it works but its basic and needs lots of improvements and we have made our needs and wants noted and a schedule and plan of action and working time frames are getting put in place.

    Having said all that the casino product for a player is unbelievable and as an affiliate that is your biggest concern I would think that players want to play . licensed in the UK , Curacao and Malta also witch adds value and working on Romania and Denmark Licenses with the eye on a few others Law abiding one too.
     
  17.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Of course I have no idea what's involved... but a WHOLE YEAR to update your affy back-end sounds totally RIDICULOUS to me. :eek:
    How on earth can it possibly take that long???

    Regarding earnings: Of course we (affiliates) appreciate that a great casino like yours keeps the players coming back over and over again, but the bottom line is, no matter how generous you are with cash-back etc, the amount of earnings as a percentage of deposits is probably the lowest in the business. As we can no longer see the costs or withdrawals in the back-end (can't even see NGR now!), we are left totally in the dark as to WHY earnings SEEM to be so low...

    KK
     
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  18.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    Its a Long List of things we need doing KK to get it to an acceptable Standard I'm not saying everything will be added or everything we want done will be added by January . ( I don't want to put a Line in the sand and say this is a date as if its not ready by then well then its more issues so its a general date)

    I'm saying that's the date we would like to see for it to be at a stage that its 100% .. Stats , Look and Feel, Nice to have etc Just a good 0verall product obviously there at things we want sorted quicker and faster and these will be added as they come and as they are ready.

    Stats and The lack of Reporting being one of them for sure its just getting things done , approved and having dedicated resources to do that is not as easy as you think or I want to be honest I'm leering .. things get done on Malta Time something I'm not used to but have to accept .

    Just know that we have taken onboard all the requests for more information and it is being looked at I just cant say when it will all be completed or infract work will even start as the casino product does take priority As I say if you want I cant assist you as I'm not your : allocated Affiliate manager something you can take up with the guys at LAC if you wasn't changed but I'm sure if you chatted to Account manager in question he would look at a Hybrid or even a CPA that works for you if you wanted I cant promise anything but this would define help with your earnings set up just speak tot he guys I know they will listen
     
  19.  
    Miles_Videoslots

    Miles_Videoslots Affiliate Program Representative

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    Excuse the Typos ...just knee deep lol
     
  20.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Well put KK!

    I'm not directing this at you personally Miles, but affiliates send casinos, players. Most times, given the dialog, I can't help but wonder if programs think affiliates are running charities, and our sites are there to get free traffic & Branding.

    We're ALL in business to make money. Clearly VS is making money (from players referred from affiliates). Yet those affiliates who promote VS, are generally only making crumbs.

    In so far as the dedicated affiliate program, well that stretches back to around 2014, and Lucas making promises which continuely got broken. Now you say Jan 2018. Sorry, but this is akin to a donkey and carrot routine. Going on past history, it seems to be the norm (with VS), not the exception... just sayin!

    Edit:
    I'd happily promote VS. But when the majority of affiliates at a program are stating commission figures of 4 - 15% earnings on deposits, I have to wonder who's getting rich from this? Certainly not affiliates, that's for sure. Ironically VS wouldn't have ALL these players, without affiliates. Yet they seem to be the folks getting the raw-deal-here!
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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