Brightshare chargeback

Discussion in 'Brightshare' started by fulltimer, Dec 28, 2013.



  1.  
    Marcia

    Marcia Member

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    Hi Perc,

    Please send me your affiliate tag or BS login so I can look into this.

    Thanks - Marcia
     
  2.  
    Marcia

    Marcia Member

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    Hi Coral,

    I understand from Levi, our BS Support wizard, that you had actually received your payment from us - on time.
    And that there had been a confusion between us and another program.

    Glad to hear this was resolved.

    Thanks - Marcia
     
  3.  
    Marcia

    Marcia Member

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    Hi Perc - and All,

    I thank you for asking the question about how chargebacks can be higher than the player's purchases in any one month, when that is the only month the player was active in the casino. I thank you because, due to your question, I learned something new today.

    The player in question is a real piece of work. He made 12 purchases for a total of $701. He then, very systematically, made 12 chargebacks covering all his purchases. For each chargeback, there is a $38 fee. $38 x 12 = $458 + $701 in purchases = $1157 total chargebacks (and fees).

    I'm sorry it took so long for you to get an answer to this question.

    Thanks - Marcia
     
  4.  
    Tropica / Cash o' lot

    Tropica / Cash o' lot Affiliate Program Representative

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    Jan 1, 2014
    Hi Marcia,

    There is so much of this going on and the costs to the operators are astronomical with many processors charging $100 per charge back. Could you please PM that player's details to us or post them here so operators can block him?

    It would be nice if there was a thread or site where operators could post the name, last name, hashed card numbers and email address of all players who charged back. It will mean the operators can block them before they make a deposit. What do you guys think?

    Happy New Year!

    Regards,
    Dieter

    Tropica Casino / Cash o' Lot Casino
    Powered by: www.refilliates.com


    No Player Quotas | 40% Commission | No Negative Carry-over | Creative Marketing | Amazing Service | Knowledgeable Staff | Reliable Payments​
     
  5.  
    paulajardine

    paulajardine Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Jan 1, 2014

    I personally think this is a great idea and could only be beneficial to everyone. Stop it before it happens so no one loses out.
     
  6.  
    CaseyM

    CaseyM Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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  7.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Great idea!
    Many sites already have list of rogue casinos - why not have one listing rogue players?

    These scum are the bane of our industry and cost everyone money - even the genuine players, who lose out because casinos have less money to offer them in bonuses due to the cost of all the fraud & chargebacks. :mad:

    KK
     
  8.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Jan 2, 2014
    As an FYI, Dieter, you all have your own private forum section ;) You can discuss anything you want in there away from the prying eyes of Google (and even away from us affiliates).
     
  9.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Why do casinos bother then with requesting from players who use Credit Cards, to send copies of the back and front of their CC (in some instances requesting a hand written signature). Also, another mystery, both Mastercard and Visa use a 2'nd authorisation process, before the transaction is approved. That 2'nd security measures, means the person MUST know the security password for the card.

    This is supposed to stop anyone, who may get hold of a stolen credit card because just using the CVV/CVC wont work if you don't know the secondary security password.

    With all this information, I don't understand how a player can do a chargeback or why the casinos don't challenge, the chargeback. If a player is depositing via Credit Card, and if chargebacks are as high as you claim, then it would seem responsible to request ID docs and credit card information, even before a player makes a withdrawal... Just sayin!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  10.  
    Tropica / Cash o' lot

    Tropica / Cash o' lot Affiliate Program Representative

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    Jan 3, 2014
    In America, banking is mostly private business where customers are spoiled for choice and where the bank owners will do anything to keep their customers. So, when Mrs. Smith walks in and says little Johnny used her card, they simply accept it and begin the CB process. Banks will very rarely reverse a chargeback no matter how much paperwork / evidence you throw at them.

    99% of all CBs are players trying to gamble for free. They hope to win and if they don't, they simply CB.

    Several casinos now use Debt Collection firms to recover the money, but it is a long tedious process.

    Andy - how do I set up the Private Forum? I will post the details of players who have charged back there. First, we need to update our website terms to advise players that Data Protection falls away in the event of any fraud / abuse.

    Thanks,
    Dieter

    Tropica Casino / Cash o' Lot Casino
    Powered by: www.refilliates.com


    No Player Quotas | 40% Commission | No Negative Carry-over | Creative Marketing | Amazing Service | Knowledgeable Staff | Reliable Payments​
     
  11.  
    fulltimer

    fulltimer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Jan 3, 2014

    Hi Marcia,

    Point 3 is a bit confusing. In our earlier conversations I was questioning why the player isn't locked since there was another charge back in November for $509. But you now give the impression the player was locked already in October and was able to do another charge back. Can a locked player charge back?

    The player's total deposit was 6066.2 AUD in August. So has he now charged back his entire deposit?

    Also I'd like to ask about receiving the correct commission rates. My October commission was (after the chargeback) 2811.51 - I should still have been paid around 900 but instead received 629.59, which is roughly 22%. There are other months that don't add up either in terms the percentage, however with small differences. For example, December net revenue was 6810.78 and total earning of that was 1950.42, which is 28.63%. So just curious as to the commissions not matching the exact percentage deal?

    Regards
    Fulltimer
     
  12.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Dieter, if the player is in America then your explanation would be relevant but... for other Countries and certainly for Australia, it's not. I can assure you banks in Australia don't take such a lackadaisical view of chargebacks, in fact, they view bogus claims along the lines of fraud. All CB claims are investigated by the bank. They never used to BUT they are now savvy to fact of, as you mentioned, player depositing hoping to win and when they don't, they initiate a chargeback.

    Aussie Banks are not as gullible these days when the chargeback involves online gaming.

    Hence if Jackpot Factory can prove this player is responsible for these deposits, then it's highly likely the AU bank concerned would reverse the CB ;) That's why I'm surprised when I see chargebacks in affiliate programs, from players in Australia. They must have lied through their back-teeth to the bank.

    Not withstanding the fact American's can't play at MGS (or for that matter Playtech) casinos, then the USA explanation about CB's, is even less valid with relation to this Brightshare thread...just sayin!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  13.  
    fulltimer

    fulltimer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Jan 4, 2014

    Very true and the sudden three Aussies in total charging back in November is odd. Being that Australians are breaking the law when playing online casino offshore it's very strange that someone would be able to chargeback so easily. What would they say to the bank? "I was playing illegal online casino and lost and I want my money back". I don't think so.

    Something is fishy here so I now pulled this players entire data.

    * Signed up in April 2012, played from thereon till September 2012 with total purchases of 6331.42. The player lost all of that.
    * Player re-emerged in August 2013 with total purchases of 19,582.58 from August to September.
    * Player wins in August 2013 and September 2013.
    * Player charges back total of 5904.34 in October 2013 and November 2013 without making any purchases during either month.

    ASM6---553.jpg

    Because Brightshare removed the 'last played' column it's not possible to see when the player last played. I believe that column was removed intentionally to not show this relevant piece of information in e.g. this case. I was told that the column was removed because of space issue on the screen. It wasn't an issue for many years.

    Anyway player purchased a total of 25,914 over an eight month period between April 2012 to September 2013. So it's not like this is a new player who "made a mistake" to play online casino and is charging back.

    For example, Australia's biggest bank, the Commonwealth Bank says:

    "You should tell us within 30 days of the statement date so that we do not lose our chargeback rights."

    -- This is a small window and not what Marcia is telling us about 180 days, which may be the case in America. But crickey, this is OZTRALIA!

    The Commonwealth Bank says:

    "Please note that we may not be able to charge back any disputed regular payment arrangement transaction if you cannot provide evidence that you cancelled the authority with the merchant, or if any notification to cancel was communicated to the merchant less than 15 business days before the date the disputed transaction was processed."

    -- The player spent 6331.42 in 2012 without any hiccups. That's enough evidence that this is a regular player who knew exactly what s/he was doing.

    The Commonwealth Bank says:

    "When you will not be liable for authorised transactions - Each card scheme’s rules allows us to dispute an authorised transaction for you in certain circumstances if we do so within strict time limits. If the credit card scheme’s rules allow us to do so, we will request a refund of a transaction (“chargeback”) for you. Usually we can only do this if you tried to get a refund from the merchant first and were unsuccessful. You should tell us if you want us to chargeback a transaction for you within 30 days of the statement date so that we do not lose our chargeback rights. If you tell us after this time, and we cannot chargeback the transaction, you will continue to be liable for that authorised transaction."

    -- So this means the player must contact the merchant first and ask for their money back. If this fails they have 30 days from the time of the transaction to call the bank and explain how they have been playing illegal online casino for several months over a 2 year period and now want to chargeback.

    If the merchant does not agree to make refund, as would seem to be fair in this case, then merchant would say "sorry buddy" you lost. This is an existing player with 6331.42 already deposited and lost in 2012, and not some cuckoo who don't know shit from money. The player would then have to cancel any future authority with the merchant. And that is not the case since the player actually won in August 2013 and won in September 2013. So why would the player chargeback after winning two months in a row? Did the player withdraw the winnings first and then decided to chargeback from many moons ago? Not possible with an Australian credit card.

    Funny also that things changed when the OLD_MoiblerevShare35 and OLD_CasinoRevShare30 Program tags were introduced in the Brightshare reports. Up to that point I was making money from this player. From there onwards it's all negative rev share. Please check your reports and look for changes in your player activity and commissions at the time these new Program tags were introduced.

    I have brought Brightshare plenty of business since 2007 and currently have between 80 to 100 active players every month. However I only make an average of 2k per month in commission from them, which is well below what I make elsewhere with same amount of players.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  14.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Sorry dude but that's 100% wrong!

    The law is...
    It's illegal for any Australian based (non Australian Licensed) online casino or sportsbook to accept a bet(s) from another Australian, who places the bet whilst on Australian soil. When the ABC (4Corners), did a scathing report on Casino Rewards (they're based in Sydney), not long after, they stopped accepting Australian players. Must have waited till the heat died-down, cause Aussies can again sign-up.

    It's not illegal to play, it's just illegal for Aussies to accept bets commercially from another Australian ;)

    I got my finger in a few pies outside the online gaming vertical. Have also owned a couple of bricks and mortar shops too. And I've never, ever heard of anyone being charged such a low fee as $38 per chargeback. I've spoken to numerous affiliate managers when a player has charged-back and the figured stated is $100 per CB.

    Now either someone has given you misleading information Marcia or... affiliates add your own sentence here!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  15.  
    fulltimer

    fulltimer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Jan 5, 2014
    I stand corrected.. thanks!
     
  16.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Actually you are both wrong. It is illegal for any online casino anywhere in the world to accept a bet from an Australian. It is not illegal for a player to place a bet if the casino is willing to break the law and accept it. However most casinos do not give a toss about Australian law as, unlike the US government, no-one is going to hunt them down, extradite them and put them in PMITA prison or extort hundreds of millions of dollars compensation out of them. And no-one has ever been charged under the law so its all academic.

    If you're an Australian affiliate targeting Australian players on the other hand (eg .com.au domains or Australian themed sites), you had better beware because you may be breaching the Interactive Gambling Act restrictions on the promotion of gambling services to Australians. There are no worries if you site incidentally hits Australian eyeballs so long as its targeted overseas or worldwide.

    On the topic of Brightshare, I too had the argument about having the full amount of the chargeback deducted from my earnings way back in 2009/10 or so. At the time that is exactly what they did. They calculated commissions, then subtracted chargebacks off the commission total, not the net revenue. The argument got nowhere, not least because I think the AM at the time completely failed to understand the question I was asking. As it was only a few hundred and we were earning lots at the time (those days are long gone with these guys) we let it go.

    All in all, after shafting affiliates and underpaying us with the "All Slots USA" rip off, then selling all the player accounts to jackpot Capital without compensating anyone, the accusations made by Lloyd Apter of shaving and dodginess, and the repeated questions being brought up like in this thread, I really don't think that they are very trustworthy and if I were a new affiliate I would steer clear of these guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  17.  
    fulltimer

    fulltimer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Okay thanks for everyone's concern about Aussie legalities. I really don't give a crap about it. This is about Brightshare so let's keep it on the topic. If someone wants to discuss Aussie gambling law they can start a new thread.

    Yes there are too many issues with Brightshare and anyone who promotes them these days is most likely not going to get what they expect. And I just wonder how much they are actually getting away with. It might be an idea to start a class action against them. With hundreds of affiliates the legal fees won't be much at all. Anyone interested?
     
  18.  
    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Can't agree more, BS has been shaving like no other. New traffic sent is rewarded with 15% rev.share if not referred a new player within 3 months, tells all about them how they really are; greedy.
     
  19.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Another Brightshare thread, to throw on the mounting pile of others, regarding the same topics, trust and ethics. Those who have been bitten, know they're getting scammed. And it's not noobs making these claims either. It's across the board from all sectors of affiliates. With the ASUSA scam, the accusations by Lloyd at the GPWA, the T&C changes in early 2013 and now, questionable chargebacks. I think anyone who still trusts this program, should really weight up their options.

    Not forgetting Brightshare is an eCOGRA certified program. Though, like the "safe and fair" seals, the "affiliate trust" seals are just as worthless.

    I'm truly surprised any affiliate forum, those who claim to stand-up for affiliates, have them listed at all. Because to me and many others, Brightshare can't be trusted!

    There is another MGS program who is far worse, Rewards Affiliates. But like the AU gambling laws, that's another thread topic.

    A few external links from places like the GPWA... where, affiliates have issues with Brightshare.
    http://www.gpwa.org/forum/shaved-another-micro-215208.html
    http://www.onlinecasinoreviewer.com...s/blacklisted-affiliate-programs/brightshare/
    http://www.roguecasinoprograms.com/brightshare-casinos-blacklisted.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  20.  
    Marcia

    Marcia Member

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    Hi All,

    I'll try to respond to the comments here:

    1. "-- This is a small window and not what Marcia is telling us about 180 days, which may be the case in America. But crickey, this is OZTRALIA!"

    Here are the real T+Cs, from the real prepaid card, from the real player being discussed - crickey!:

    chargeback time limits.jpg

    2. "....BS has been shaving like no other." Inspiration, would you like to offer any facts here, or just throw out the accusation?

    3. "I've never, ever heard of anyone being charged such a low fee as $38 per chargeback." I guess you're working with the wrong cards - $38 is exactly what this player's prepaid (maybe that makes the difference) card charged us. I'm telling you we were charged $38 per CB and you're saying we should have charged the affiliate more?!? Seems to me that if we were as sleazy as some affiliates here are saying, we'd have done just that - but we're not, so we didn't.

    4. "99% of all CBs are players trying to gamble for free. They hope to win and if they don't, they simply CB." YOU ARE SO RIGHT, Dieter!!!

    5. "Can a locked player charge back?" Yes, absolutely. That's the whole point here. The player charged back, the casino locked the account, and the player is continuing to charge back. We can't stop them from charging back - limits on this are set only by the T+Cs of their card, not us. A locked player cannot deposit, play, or cashin (unless the player himself requested his account be locked, in which case he can cashin his balance).

    6. Fulltimer - I'll email you with an explanation of why you think you're seeing revshare percentages less than your set amount.

    I hope this clears up some of the facts.

    Thanks - Marcia
     

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