ALERT: Playshare Partners

[bonustreak]

Sorry I have to disagree about them not being able to attend the conference that is the perfect place for those of us that are going to get them in a corner and have a nice face to face chat. I hope something is said about this way before then though.

 

[TreasureChest]

I have just moved my rogue page to the main menu... time to make it more known rather than hidden. The movement has to start and rogue lists maintained... just like spamhaus, list of spammers did not stop but at least they were identified and led to the Can-Spam act.

The database is great idea, and should also be mentioned are the software companies that accept this behaviour. It is like what was done to spammers, identify the ISP that is housing them, therefore accepting their behavior. Pretty soon the ISP's dump the spammers. Start showing Playtech software as a rogue software house (which they are) accepting casinos that are rogue. RTG is the same. Both have license agreements with the rogue casinos, and should start policing their own clients. Not taking responsibility is not acceptable.

 

[NoLuckNeeded]

I have been following this discussion from the sidelines and speaking with Playshare by email. I will now jump in with all my comments.

I have been with Casino Share since Day 1 and have been very happy with them. They have been fabulous, and this issue really suprised me. I do not have any huge high rollers, just a lot of medium players, so maybe that clouds my judgement here, although I think it is WRONG to change any agreement retroactively.

I have 2 concerns, which have been expressed by other affilites.

1. The term does not bother me as much as the "retroactive change". This illustrates
that programs can do what they want and when they want. Contracts really mean nothing since this is the case.
2. I am concerned that other money problems are involved or this change would not have been made.

I will probably continue promoting Casino Share because my players like them and so do I.... BUT- I tend to punish casinos with less promotion. My main concern is how players are treated, although if a program will cheat affiliates, they will probably cheat players soon too. If they stick it to us like Grand Prive, then I deserve it from here on out.

Affiliate programs cheat, we all know that. It is a dance we do with the devil and the devil will do what he wants and what he can get away with. Being an affiliate is gambling as sure as our players gamble. We have to pick the lesser of multiple evils if we want to sit on the couch and work and get paid so much.

Dom said some interesting things that I agree with. I used to go to the conferences.. then I realized that affiliate managers tend to change frequently. I also realzied a few years back what another member posted.. affiliate groups really have 0 power. I really trusted an aff manager at Sky Kings who has since moved to another casino I promote heavily. She is trustworthy, but when the Sky Kings owner decided not to pay, she could do nothing and they decided not to pay her too. I felt a loss with every affiliate manager I built a relationship with that "moved on". My time is best spent working on my site.

Lucky for me I always knew Grand Prive was crooked and never promoted them. I promoted even bigger crooks called CPAYS playtechs and did get tortured by them... they taught me never to trust what any affiliate program says.. ever, and that we have to dance with the devil to be in this business.

I agree that CAP could care less about affiliates. They are a joke. Any casino can be on CAP if they pay the money.

All of this talk about how Rivals are no comparison to MG and others. Well I have been with Rival since day 1 and have never had 1 commission problem or heard of an affiliate not getting paid. MG is supposed to be the Grand Daddy, but look at what they do to affiliates. I am thankful I took the chance to promote Rivals in 2006 and have pounded them hard for years and now see the huge rewards. I am insulated a bit from these MG problems.

I appreciate that affiliate guard dog certification is not for sale. (Andrew please check your emails & private messages, I have been trying to contact you.

I think that is everything except the kitchen sink. Thanks to all you active members who make it easy for the lurkers to stay informed. ;D

 

[bonustreak]

One thing you said is exactly what we intend to do is take off any high exposure ads for the brands that have made retroactive changes we are busy doing that this next week coming up. They will be replaced with a program that will not make these type of changes!

 

[dominique]

IMO continuing to build a player base for casinos that have already shown us that they do whatever they like regardless of agreements and contracts is worse than just gambling on your income - it's asking to be screwed.

If even one program gets away with this, the rest will surely follow suit and you can throw that whole contract business for revenue share in the waste basket and only go CPA.

I tend to have loyal, good players and CPA would not be worth my effort.

There have to be some business principles that this industry adheres to even if we can only self police.

You can't do business without proper contract law - people are free to pay or not pay as they please. Might as well do business with the mafia.

Now Roxy has removed the retroactive clause. Why not give them some of the spots Casinoshare doesn't deserve? They have a spotless player reputation.

 

[bonustreak]

I have given my top spots that Playshare had to Redflush they deserve it and Roxy has gone back up on all sites!

 

[inspiration]

I am not sure if I want to remove them from top spots....the traffic is down heavily so I must list casinos that convert....and they do it better than others so far. Maybe if traffic picks up next month I can rotate again.
Sure it sounds like a bad excuse.....but if other casinos are not delivering for me I am in an awkward position....

I hope playshare will make some new comments here, I am afraid it will go wrong if the silence continues.


@ Dominique : your playshare link redirects to a 404 page..............not sure if this is correct....

 

[Guard Dog]

I am not sure if I want to remove them from top spots....the traffic is down heavily so I must list casinos that convert....and they do it better than others so far. Maybe if traffic picks up next month I can rotate again.
Sure it sounds like a bad excuse.....but if other casinos are not delivering for me I am in an awkward position....

Rich Reels converts well

Brightshare properties convert and they keep players for eons.

I understand the awkwardness of it, though It's a tough position to be in, but you shouldn't lose income by sending traffic to another casino.

 

[WCD Admin]

I totally understand where inspiration comes from. For easy to understand look at this make believe situation that can easily be all to real:

Playshare makes me 10,000
Slotland makes me 1,000
Another program makes me 1,000
Another program maes me $500
and 10 or so more make me $200

I have 4 kids, a wife, and house payment.

Not so easy to do when looking at it this way. I mean no one can show us the golden road. If we make the switch and ONE thing goes wrong, and we have a bad month, it can be torturous. THIS is the thing the casinos know and are preying on.

The best way to handle this situation is actually when times are GOOD. Diversify your programs folks, or you'll get caught eventually. It feels better to get 20 $1,000 checks than it does to get 1 $20,000 check !! and its a lot safer, too.

 

[Guard Dog]

What I fail to understand is this...

We are free to promote whomever we want. We can promote Casino X for awhile and when we decide to stop promoting them and promote Casino Y, we receive our commissions from the player base at Casino X.

So - if you shift focus to Casino Y, you still have the income from Casino X. How do you lose out by making that change?

You might if you were promoting Affiliate United Casinos (due to their 12.5% revenue share with 0 players), but most credible places do not have that crap.

 

[WCD Admin]

The quotas that are coming out are quickly plugging that escape route. In fact, its probably the reason they are coming up.

 

[mojo]

I can understand the income thing and it's tough when a program converts well and then does something like this. There are mouths to feed so what do you do. I certainly can appreciate that.

Just speaking for myself, I have learned that one of the survival skills in this biz is to put your eggs in many baskets. There are so many quality programs. If one goes south, more exposure is given to another. Not saying it's instant. It takes time to build that player base. It also hurts. I've been using Playshare since day 1 also. That's why it's effected me so much and I am fighting it so hard. And will continue to do so.

However, I never want to be at the mercy of any ONE program so even though it costs me, it's worth it in the long run and to secure the future. If we don't, other programs (not all) take notice and see how far they can push the envelope too. Next thing you know, we're up the creek.

All we need at the end of the day is honest 'we send players, we get paid'. Not these terms games!

 

[inspiration]

What I fail to understand is this...

We are free to promote whomever we want. We can promote Casino X for awhile and when we decide to stop promoting them and promote Casino Y, we receive our commissions from the player base at Casino X.

So - if you shift focus to Casino Y, you still have the income from Casino X. How do you lose out by making that change?

I tried believe me my traffic does not want other micros, most of my visitors just want the playshare and their whitelabels it seems.

For Grandmondial and casinoshare I have a lot of winners this month so only earning for quatro........cry.............

 

[Lawrence]

Response from PlayShare Partners

Hi all,

My most sincere apologies for the length of time taken to compose the official PlayShare Partners response to AGD's decision to discourage affiliates from working with us. As I have stressed before, this is an issue which should not be taken lightly or without full investigation, by any relevant or interested parties.

Click here to access the document.

Please take some time to read through the entire .pdf document thoroughly. I appreciate that there is a lot of information to process, but it is crucial that our position is understood in full.

Please feel free to contact me at lawrence(at)playshare(dot)com should you have any comments.

Regards,
Lawrence.

 

[triple777s]

Alot to read, with nothing new to report. great.

 

[inspiration]

Most of us did not know that you actually have implemented the HR policy in 2008, which was quit a shock. As I signed up before that date the change itself is retroative for me and most others.

If you had sent an email with this terms change to all of your affiliates I think most affiliates would be completely against implementing it.

Because PS decided to modify the terms without our approval and not informing us anyway this is a bad precedent and is by far not according to good business ethics.

I do not like the way PS enforced this new set of rules and referring to the clause that regarding the terms in the contract - alles ist erlaubt - from our site without notice und alles ist ohne ohne Gewähr.

If PS business is in jeopardy well I can not say I have received messages to push your casinos more to compensate.

Altering binding contracts by the sole discretion of the affiliate program is not legal.

PS just enlightens one side of the story because when the economy picks up again what are you going to do then remove the term again, i do not think so?

According to latest Casinomeister video this issue is some serious Scheisse, this is my opinion too.

Besides that aren't you already cutting costs by lowering new players bonuses and loyal players bonuses?

 

[Guard Dog]

Great response inspiration..



I would like to clarify some of the misinformation in the PR document in regards to AGD...

Firstly: I have mentioned on several occasions that we (as a group of affiliates) did not understand the term, initially.

In item #1 under the topic of 'Mitigating Factors', Playshare states that we knew about the term days after it was implemented (true, our system detects within 24 hours and we process that change notice).

In item #2 under the topic of 'Mitigating Factors', they go on to show responses to AGD's terms alert thread at GPWA (they are accurate responses).

However - What is not mentioned is that affiliates did not understand the full term until we ran numbers on it at a much later date.

Summary: Had we understood this term fully upon inception, these discussions would have long been started and, hopefully, long over with. Mojo was the one who initiated a deeper look into the issue after her account was affected.

While I believe Playshare wants AGD to be the 'bad guy' here... AGD was not the one who made the retroactive terms change.

The last statement speaks volumes, so I will quote it here and then reply:

We are also of the conviction that PSP has always operated with a focus on integrity. It is unfortunate, then,
that we feel as though we are being punished by the AGD for being honest and transparent.

AGD's Response: We do not punish organizations. Playshare has been transparent (after we alerted affiliates to the term change) and we have always commended them for that. Lawrence knows that - I have talked with him at length several times and we get along well despite the term controversy.

 

[NoLuckNeeded]

IMO continuing to build a player base for casinos that have already shown us that they do whatever they like regardless of agreements and contracts is worse than just gambling on your income - it's asking to be screwed.


Now Roxy has removed the retroactive clause. Why not give them some of the spots Casinoshare doesn't deserve? They have a spotless player reputation.

Why is Roxy Palace better than Playshare, just because they caved to pressure? They did the same thing. It seems that promoting Roxy would be the same as Playshare using your first paragraph as the base. They have shown their true colors.

As far as doing business with the mafia- WE ARE... duh

Someone mentioned Rich Reels: I make about 5-10 times more from Rich Reels and Villento than playshare although I promote them a lot more.

Anyway, it is easy to just gradually stop promoting a casino or only promote to existing players and not new players.

Lawrence: You are lucky I will not be in Budapest baby, but we will catch up soon... lol. You better bring the chimp.

 

[NoLuckNeeded]

@ Dominique : your playshare link redirects to a 404 page..............not sure if this is correct....

All the US Casino Share links went dead a while back for me... maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago, perhaps less. No notice from Casino Share, so I thought I was just lucky.

I had to change hundreds of links to the french landing page.. wonder if it is still tracking. This was after changing all the urls from .com to .eu. I hate to change links.

As far as the Playshare response, I think attacking AGD is the wrong way to go. I would fall on my sword and say sorry but we had to do it.

 

[GamTrak]

I don't have time to read thru a bunch of words, but from the reply of giggles and this one it may not be worth reading.

It's very sad to see Playshare take this position and tarnish what I considered to be a great program in the past!

Being that you (Grand Mondial) are a current sponsor of GamTrak Forum we need to chat about how to proceed so I'll have redbush get with you.

Good luck Lawrence as you know it's nothing personal and I think you are a cool guy as well as easy on the eyes! hehe

Great response inspiration..



I would like to clarify some of the misinformation in the PR document in regards to AGD...

Firstly: I have mentioned on several occasions that we (as a group of affiliates) did not understand the term, initially.

In item #1 under the topic of 'Mitigating Factors', Playshare states that we knew about the term days after it was implemented (true, our system detects within 24 hours and we process that change notice).

In item #2 under the topic of 'Mitigating Factors', they go on to show responses to AGD's terms alert thread at GPWA (they are accurate responses).

However - What is not mentioned is that affiliates did not understand the full term until we ran numbers on it at a much later date.

Summary: Had we understood this term fully upon inception, these discussions would have long been started and, hopefully, long over with. Mojo was the one who initiated a deeper look into the issue after her account was affected.

While I believe Playshare wants AGD to be the 'bad guy' here... AGD was not the one who made the retroactive terms change.

The last statement speaks volumes, so I will quote it here and then reply:




AGD's Response: We do not punish organizations. Playshare has been transparent (after we alerted affiliates to the term change) and we have always commended them for that. Lawrence knows that - I have talked with him at length several times and we get along well despite the term controversy.