ALERT: Playshare Partners

[Guard Dog]

I'll try to detail (as clearly as possible) how Playshare's High Roller Clause is enacted:

Scenario 1: High Roller Wins $100,000 and plays it all back in subsequent months.

Month 1: High Roller wins $100,000. Affiliate is currently earning $5,000 (in commissions) from all other players.

End of Month1: Affiliate is paid $0.

Month 2: High Roller loses $95,000. Affiliate is currently earning $5,000 (in commissions) from all other players.

End of Month 2: Affiliate is paid $5,000 and the high roller is returned to the account.**

** High Roller is returned because (s)he lost $95,000 and Playshare already removed $5,000 of your commissions in the first month, which equals $100,000

Month 3: High Roller loses $50,000. Affiliate is currently earning $5,000 (in commissions) from all other players.

End of Month 3: Assuming affiliate is 30% revshare, affiliate is paid: $5,000 + (30% of $50,000) = $20,000


Total Affiliate Losses due to High Roller Clause: $0.

Why? Because the high roller kept playing until all losses were recouped by the casino.

Total Affiliate Losses due to the Retroactive nature of the clause: $100,000 * 30% = $30,000

Why? Because previous to the high roller clause, there was a blanket no negative carryover policy. Since the player was not fenced and there was a NO negative carryover policy, any monies the 'high roller' would have played back are commissionable.


Scenario 2: High Roller Wins $100,000 and walks away

Month 1: High Roller wins $100,000. Affiliate is currently earning $5,000 (in commissions) from all other players.

End of Month1: Affiliate is paid $0.

Month 2: High Roller is gone. Affiliate is currently earning $5,000 (in commissions) from all other players.

End of Month 2: Affiliate is paid $5,000

Month 3: Affiliate is currently earning $5,000 (in commissions) from all other players.

End of Month 3: Affiliate is paid $5,000


Total Affiliate Losses due to High Roller Clause: $5,000.

Why? Because the high roller left the casino and his losses will never be recovered and put back into your account.



I really hope that explains the mathematics behind the High Roller clause fairly to both sides here. Please let me know (Playshare and Affiliates) if it is not clear or not explained accurately.

 

[inspiration]

The new term has been there since early 2008, without me knowing. I like the program because it has always beens open for discussion. This new term is to preserve unnecessary loss of valuable cash - paying money to affiliates from negative player-revenues.

First : I would like to have known this before this new ghost term was added.

Second : It is bad for affiliates in bad times AND bad in good times.

I would like to see some comments from playshare instead of us wasting time on posting "what if or guessing for clues to get this changed"

Third : Yes most of us do not give a damn these days when programs change terms for their benefits, including me. Why ? If I - and others - stop sending traffic it will cost money I cannot afford to lose. The problem is that if they added a minimum player clause we would be all over them with blacklisting this and that, but luckily this is not the case. So the overall thinking for most affiliates : I am not happy with it at all but not that bad I want to stop promoting.

I am not amused with this change either, surely it will have an effect on how I trust people these days for doing the right thing and running their business : more friends (affiliate managers) are turning into just business contacts for me which is sad and the money they win from it surely will hurt their reputation and trustworthyness.

If there will come some new microgaming programs with better terms for affiliates, I think they will regret this unfortunate retroactive move.

I just want to see an acceptable solution for this new term in order to keep us motivated and promoting excellent gaming properties.

 

[mojo]

The new term has been there since early 2008, without me knowing.

Thank you for the info. I had been looking for that.

In my case, my player "High Roller" had signed up in 2006.

Classic case of broken contract/breach/retroactive terms. Allow this and we open the door for complete meltdown and kaos.

 

[inspiration]

Besides the new highroller term I have had no issues with the group, which is definately worth something these days.

I hope this issue will not spoil the ongoing party because the things they have been doing so far : to deliver results, is quite impressive.

;D

 

[dominique]

I am not amused with this change either, surely it will have an effect on how I trust people these days for doing the right thing and running their business : more friends (affiliate managers) are turning into just business contacts for me which is sad and the money they win from it surely will hurt their reputation and trustworthyness.

If there will come some new microgaming programs with better terms for affiliates, I think they will regret this unfortunate retroactive move.

I just want to see an acceptable solution for this new term in order to keep us motivated and promoting excellent gaming properties.

Yes, this is really sad, I almost don't want to go to any conferences anymore for this reason. There you get to know aff managers as people and come to accept them as the connection between you and the casino.

In reality, no matter how wonderful the manager as a person, when it comes down to it they have zero power and influence over what happens and whether we get cheated or not.

In an industry that is basically based on trust since there is no auditing in place for aff programs (and I mean professional auditing of on site books, not spot tests of registrations and deposits) - there is no more trust to be found.

Loyalty is now a fault. 8 years loyalty to Grand Privee resulted in my losing a nice player base of outstanding players. Lately contracts have become a joke. My head is spinning from the number of contracts that have been broken as of late.

Whether your aff manager is a nice person or not, their job is to gain your trust and push their program. And unfortunately, they have no say-so over what happens next.

I have had many good years in this industry, but I don't see a good future for it anymore since we cannot trust the people we partner with.

I wonder if I should get out while the getting is still good...

 

[WCD Admin]

Sorry I've been out for so long. This stuff I am reading really sucks.

Thing to remember - the laws will be changing. Don't throw your hat in the ring just yet. When we are a regulated industry, these jokers are going to get dropped like a rock.

I think what would be powerful right now is an information campaign. Find out who owns these casinos, publicly out them now so when they try to abandon the ship they wrecked when online gambling is finally regulated, we can easily identify them and block them out of the new industry for good.

We should know who owns the companies we promote. A great place to start would be to create an "easy to sort" owners database. I am thinking organized by owners names, if multiple owners, multiple entries. Tie these names to their "corporate identity(s)" and then to their current and past casino(s). When a new casino opens up, stop looking at the software brand and company name so much and pay a lot more attention to who is running/owns the outfit behind the scenes.

The database would be searchable by "casino name" , "corporate name" and "owner name" and would return corporate owners, and company names and casino names - it would have the current "standing" of each casino / company / owner and explanation for that grade.

It would be nice if GPWA or anyone with an in-print magazine did full profiles of the owners of rogue outfits: print their full names and contact information so that people become familiar with these guys. I am thinking "mug shot" style along with full name, any company names, what casino(s) they own or owned and why you really want to steer clear of them. Hit them at home and write it like an adventure story (easy/fun to read).

Too often we do our battle out in the front lines, and its easy for the unscrupulous owner to change casino names, open a new white label, etc. These guys play a lot of cat-n-mouse. If we paint them red, it might be a bit harder for them to do this crap. Let's go up the ladder a few notches and attack their corporations and officers/owners. In short, lets do some real damage when fighting for our stolen money/contracts.

It would be great if there was a list of new casinos every month in the GPWA magazine that was already cross referenced and you could easily identify who owned the new casino (or who was behind the outfit) along with a "grade" for this outfit or individual based on the database. It would even better if J. Todd was absolutely kicking their ass in the APCW videos anytime they reared their ugly head under a new "umbrella" - I can hear him now:

"and look what the cat drug in again! "so and so, such and such" from thing-a-ma-jig casino thinks were stupid again. I wonder what he'll think when he can't pay his license fees because no affiliate will touch him with a 10 foot poll!!" -- J. Todd I want credits when you use that line!

In the mean time we can continue our campaigns against the brands they represent (if we can afford it) and try to be understanding with our friends who can't take the banners down because it would hurt them too much financially. Those affiliates would hopefully be reducing exposure and diversifying to support the campaign.

Too much coffee or just enough?

 

[mojo]

Good post W.

Personally I'm done with 'behind the scenes' talks and people talking for me. I can talk for myself. I'm not waiting months anymore for some action. If people want to be our watchdogs then they need to act fast. No offense Andy.

Here is another thread I started. I will keep starting threads. Until I get banned or something LOL!

Playshare - Gambling Portal Webmasters Association

I want to give kudos to AGD for stepping up. Thank you.

This is no longer the days of shutting up affiliates like CAP did.

 

[Engineer]

I like your ideas, WCD.

Just the right amount of coffee...

 

[Lawrence]

Hi there everyone,

I just wanted to post a short message here, so that you don't get the wrong idea about PlayShare Partners and surmise that we are ignoring this issue. The reality couldn't be further from the truth, as I have already held a fruitful discussion with Andrew, and am in the process of formulating a response.

As this issue is not to be taken lightly, so I have refrained from responding to individuals' comments and complaints, as this often results in diluting the overall issue at hand.

I trust that you can appreciate this approach, and will allow us some time to draft a response.

Regards,
Lawrence.

 

[mojo]

As this issue is not to be taken lightly, so I have refrained from responding to individuals' comments and complaints, as this often results in diluting the overall issue at hand.

I trust that you can appreciate this approach, and will allow us some time to draft a response.

Regards,
Lawrence.

It's nice to see a response. However, I do not appreciate keeping affiliates out of the loop.

I brought this up in April. Here is a public post from May. It should not have taken 5 months to get a response here. Still no response at the gpwa.

Playshare High Roller - Gambling Portal Webmasters Association

Please AGD, Anthony, Programs working 'behind the scenes' we need to know! At least be acknowledged. It is offensive to be ignored over and over again. Ignoring and not responding does not make it go away. It only makes it worse.

Thank you for listening!

 

[inspiration]

Thanks Lawrence for your reply, always good to inform us the news.

 

[bonustreak]

The reason for talks behind the scene's are very simple when it is done in that manner the talks are not heated and things are discussed in a calm manner. On forums to many people go in the attack mode and nothing really can be accomplished. Lawrence has posted here and on other forums showing that Playshare is listening to us and they are wanting to come to an agreement which in my book is great! I feel hopeful here and I am happy this isn't another situation like Grand Pricks, at least this program is willing to talk and work with us affiliates.

 

[mojo]

The reason for talks behind the scene's are very simple when it is done in that manner the talks are not heated and things are discussed in a calm manner. On forums to many people go in the attack mode and nothing really can be accomplished. Lawrence has posted here and on other forums showing that Playshare is listening to us and they are wanting to come to an agreement which in my book is great! I feel hopeful here and I am happy this isn't another situation like Grand Pricks, at least this program is willing to talk and work with us affiliates.

Yes, I understand all that.

However, Lawrence just posted today. This has been going on for months. My point is that it would be good to let affiliates know talks are going on in the first place. We don't know if there are talks or not. There is never a reply LOL.

 

[bonustreak]

You have to just trust in us at AGD and believe that if someone has bad terms or they go retro with changes etc someone here on the team is going after them and doing something about it We are all just like you we have families and we do this on a volunteer basis so it takes time and for that we are sorry.

 

[mojo]

I'm not picking on you bonustreak or AGD and maybe I am not coming accross with my point very well.

I understand AGD does not enter into talks publically. I get that.

A simple announcement (locked for posting) that talks are going on is all. Then everyone knows you are aware and working on it. Otherwise we don't know what's going on or if AGD is even aware of a problem. That's all.

Just a suggestion.

 

[bonustreak]

That is a great idea and something we should think about doing. Maybe an icon that denotes we are in talks to change the terms etc...

 

[Jan]

Hi there everyone,

I just wanted to post a short message here, so that you don't get the wrong idea about PlayShare Partners and surmise that we are ignoring this issue. The reality couldn't be further from the truth, as I have already held a fruitful discussion with Andrew, and am in the process of formulating a response.

As this issue is not to be taken lightly, so I have refrained from responding to individuals' comments and complaints, as this often results in diluting the overall issue at hand.

I trust that you can appreciate this approach, and will allow us some time to draft a response.

Regards,
Lawrence.

I hope you can get this sortet out Lawrence, if not there is not really any point in having any terms and conditions for the affiliate program. You could simply replace the T&C with a single line that says somthing like: "We will pay you if we feel like you decerve it!" or similar.

If Playshare is going to change the contract - why even have a contract at all? Trust is everything in this business - right now Playshare's trustscore is at a lowpoint. This situation is defenitly not going to get me to think of new ways to send trafic your way, and I am sure many other affiliates are thinking the same way.

Kind regards
Jan

 

[mojo]

It's now the 22nd. Playshare last posted the 11th.

Seriously, how long do we go on.

I see Playshare is advertising that they will be at Budapest AFFILIATE conference on their website.

I don't know about anyone else but I object to that.

Are the proprieters of this conference even listening??? If not, I will have to bring it to their attention. Is it Alex? Please direct me. It is unacceptable!

Thanks for listening. And thanks to AGD for letting me rant once a week. Hopefully some day, I won't have to. Meanwhile kudos to AGD for your help.

 

[GamTrak]

Hi mojo,

I think that shows how unorganized and disconnect this industry is. Good luck with anyone caring about them attending the conference or any of the others that have ripped us off.

 

[mojo]

Hi mojo,

I think that shows how unorganized and disconnect this industry is. Good luck with anyone caring about them attending the conference or any of the others that have ripped us off.

Yes, I hear that. It's probably unreasonable. I think I'm losing my mind due to 'post' tramatic stress syndrome LMAO!!!

It's really simple though. Just add to the rules that to display at the conferences a program must be in good standing at AGD. If they go bad, it's non-refundable. That's all.