ALERT: Playshare Partners

Discussion in 'Playshare Partners' started by Guard Dog, Aug 5, 2009.

  1.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    We have marked Playshare Partners as a 'Predatory' Affiliate Program.

    Most affiliates are aware that Playshare Partners added a High Roller clause last year and have come under fire for it ever since. Mojo originally talked about the issue at GPWA and more recently we have taken the issue up again here at AGD with an affiliate poll.

    This term is RETROACTIVE, meaning that it applies to affiliates regardless of their active contract.

    [​IMG] Playshare Partners High Roller Term Specifics:


    1. Retroactively Applied - Breach of Affiliate Contract
    2. Month 1 Earnings - Destroyed (You lose commissions from all your other players).
    3. Net Win of $10,000 is considered a 'High Roller'
    Full Terms Alert: Playshare Partners High Roller Terms Alert


    PLEASE VOTE WITH YOUR TRAFFIC NOW!

    Help the whole affiliate community - We need affiliates to stop promoting programs that are implementing commission-reduction techniques within their T&C's. It is the ONLY way we can stop this from continuing.

    To show how this policy WILL affect you at Roxy Affiliates, please see the spreadsheet image below:

    [​IMG]


    STOP PROMOTING GRAND MONDIAL, CASINOSHARE, QUATRO CASINO, POKERSHARE AND ALL PLAYSHARE WHITELABEL CASINOS NOW!

     
  2.  
    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    If I have to stop promoting Playshare - the ones I "trust" - I can better give up being an affiliate. It is my bread and butter so to speak. Recent change of the Grandmondial bonus from 400% to 123% made me feel awful and now this? If you expect me to stop sending traffic, I would have a big problem because I do not have a good alternative - Starpartner is not an option because of remaining tracking problems, rewards/brightshare/referback is already incorporated and I do not trust Vegasaffiliates, so I am in doubt what to do now because letting them change it without a fight does not feel right either.
    :mad::mad::mad:
     
  3.  
    Bonus Paradise

    Bonus Paradise Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I disagree,
    I will not stop promoting them due there are many other things absolut good about Playshare.

    While players disappear (they tell they stopped all playing) at some other affiliate programs, Playshare is one of those where I see players still playing , they signed up 2007.

    Also with the new program, all went fine, all is tracked.
    I am with them since the begin and I do trust them.
    And the affiliate support is one of the best out there.

    Sure I also dont like this High roller term, but oh well,
    I said it already once, its also not right that I earn if the casino has not earned a cent at all on a player.
    Sure I would like that they fence the player immediatly, and not only the next month.


    Yes I have to agree with inspiration,
    if we stop with playshare , well how many good programs are really left for us to promote.

    Nope sorry guys, I am not pulling their banners.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  4.  
    mojo

    mojo Banned

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    Not! No disrespect but 'oh well' is not in my vocabulary.

    Thank you AGD!

    Finally! ;D
     
  5.  
    mojo

    mojo Banned

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    Not! No disrespect but 'oh well' is not in my vocabulary.

    Thank you AGD!

    Finally! ;D

    Plenty! And if it happens to you and you lose your earnings, don't come crying to me. Goodness knows you didn't support me!
     
  6.  
    Bonus Paradise

    Bonus Paradise Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Dear mojo
    1st let me say english is not my mother language, so might be my words are not sound good or ok,
    We could talk german, this is my mother language, then I could explain all better,

    to the oh well...............
    lets say it so,
    Oh well, they have this term now since over 1 year,
    and I did earn with them still each single month.

    Is this a ok oh well sentence?

    I promise, I wont come crying to you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  7.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    Hi All,

    As much as I believe in the sticking together for the betterment of every affiliate, I like most have expenses that have to met every month.

    For me like I'm sure others the current world economic climate doesn't help either.

    I don't promote a heap of casino programs. But the ones I do promote 99% are MG.

    If I start yanking programs then I starting losing income.
    If I start losing income I can't pay my bills.
    If I can't pay my bills then I'm screwed.

    My other suggestion...

    We draft a letter & attached a petition.
    We call on all affiliates to sign this petition; not just who promote this brand.
    The letter and the petition is sent Playshare Affiliates stating exactly what we want changed and why.

    We issue Playshare Affiliates an ultimatum. Change this TERM(s) or all those XXX affiliates on this petition will be pulling all Playshare banners on date X.

    Those who don't promote this brand are telling Playshare that they WONT promote them. Whilst those that do are telling them we will pull your banners if you don't change this contract clause(s).

    That's a damn strong message that WILL affect the Playshare bottom line.

    To further assist our cause we also issue a Press Release.

    In addition we contact Industry identities such as CasinoMeister who market these casinos. He's stood up to affiliates being treated badly by casinos before so there is no reason why he wouldn't do it again in this instance.

    Just pulling banners willy nilly is not IMHO a good solution.

    Not only does it not SEND a quantifiable message to Playshare Affiliates, but it doesn't take into account that people (webmasters) are having to throw away monthly revenue, that may be keeping the wolf from the door and placing food on people's table.

    IMHO people who need this revenue to stay afloat wont yank anyone's banners. When they maybe looking at going ass up if they do!

    Of course if you sign the petition then you have to be prepared to pull banners and links if need be.

    But least this way you have some time to add another affiliate program(s) to your site(s). It allow time to start building a revenue stream to counteract the possible loss if you have to yank Playshare.

    Just some food for thought!


    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  8.  
    Daera

    Daera Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Playshare is one of the programs I trust the most, to give me accurate stats, treat me with fairness and honesty, and payments are what they should be. Unlike some other programs that I have one problem after another with, or the players just disappear. Playshare is solid.

    I was one of the oddballs that didn't have a problem with the change, or the policy. I have a player that's affect by this, and has been for many months now. It's not a big deal.

    I guess I'm used to the old days when I promoted many casinos that carried negative rollovers. Gosh, I remember being negative with IOG and Cpays some unbelievable amount, that I never did dig my way out of. This policy doesn't keep me from earnings because of a big win, only the one month. And we would have lost our earnings from a big win that first month even if there was no high roller policy. Just because of the big win.

    This is a bit harsh in my opinion. IMO, I think the warnings to affiliates to not send traffic somewhere, should be due to more serious reasons than a high roller policy like this.

    Sorry, but I just don't see things the way some of you do here I guess.
     
  9.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    To all who feel this way - Not just Daera :)

    The reason for such measures are due to the stealing of income on the first month, not the clause itself. If Playshare would PlayFair with our income, then this would be a non-issue. The problem is this: If affiliates do not speak up about this en-masses, Playshare feels they don't care enough to worry about them. When only 5 affiliates speak up, Playshare thinks 'who cares', we have a thousand affiliates and 5 are mad - so what.

    Note that Casino Coins has a 'Big Winner' clause and we did NOT ask affiliates to stop promotion. That is because Casino Coins went out of their way to ensure that the fencing is true fencing. They were not looking to gain extra revenue by fencing after the first month.

    We understand that all affiliates will not stop promotion. Playshare has been a quality organization for awhile and I, personally, like the affiliate managers over there. It was a difficult decision to create a 'call to arms' post, but necessary. If the 'good guys' like Playshare can steal revenues, imagine what all the 'bad guys' will do.

    AussieDave - Your idea is a good one. But like you said - it means that those who sign the petition will have to back it up if the group(s) decide not to return to an affiliate-friendly term.
     
  10.  
    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    The issue is much bigger than the loss of income for one month.

    The issue is that this opens the door for all programs to do the same, and affiliates overall can expect a huge reduction in income.

    I strongly recommend you find a substitute for playshare and, if you are worried about losing income, change things over slowly but surely.

    Personally, I have already lost my axx with Grand Prive and I have learned my lesson. They were messing around with retroactives before they decided to just steal all our comissions, and in my case that was 8 years worth of a player base and supported an entire family.

    I cannot stress enough that we need to take these things very seriously if we are to ensure a future for ourselves.

    When programs think that affiliate contracts are not real contracts and change them retroactively at will, we don't have an industry and you can kiss your income good bye.

    Even if just one program is getting away with implementing contract changes that add up to breach, we have set a precendent for chaos.

    If you want this to be a continuous stream of income for yourself, please consider taking a one time blow instead of sitting there just taking it til there is nothing left.

    An industry that does not honor contracts soon turns into an industry of thieves where a handshake means nothing and you cannot trust anyone.

    Please look at the big picture.
     
  11.  
    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    My opinion is that we really can't allow negative retroactive changes to be made to our agreements. Other affiliate programs are certainly watching when things like this happen. If we let a few of these negative retroactive changes get through without being challenged, this gives everyone else a green light to try the same thing -- except that you can bet your booty they'll be more bold with each new retroactive change.

    This time it's a high roller policy, maybe next time it's a commission rate decrease. Instead of 35%, now the going rate will be 10% on your entire player base. Don't like it? Too bad. Oh and also, you need to send 20 new depositors each month to get paid, mmkay, even though your existing player base is generating $10k? Can't do it? Oh okay, we'll just keep your earnings, then. See ya. :mad:

    Playshare is either:

    1. Greedy
    2. Having money problems

    Do you really think it's smart to work with a group that might be having money problems?

    For those of you who still earn most of you income from a few Microgaming casinos -- I think you would be doing yourselves a huge favor if you diversified into other software platforms, such as RTG, Vegas Technology, Playtech, WagerWorks, and Rival. There are many options out there; Microgaming isn't the only one that can generate big money. It seems incredibly risky to have a big part of your income coming from one or two groups or software platforms. Split that up, that way nobody can blackmail you with retroactive T&Cs. If you do have to abandon a ship, you'll have others to help keep you afloat; you won't be completely sunk.

    I love that. ;D And I agree 100%.

    Bottom line: Retroactive T&C changes that serve to steal affiliate commissions are bad news. Continue supporting groups that do this at your own peril.
     
  12.  
    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    Dominique said it well, probably better than I did.
     
  13.  
    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Those others do not count as heavy in total earnings........

    If they keep the option open to fence the winning player and that you can earn from other players I am comfortable with that.

    :)
     
  14.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    I've been around since 2000 and believe me I've pushed just about every brand there is. However MGS are my best earners. Always have been... With MGS 4 & 5 figure incomes are not unusual. Where as with the other brands I consider myself fortunate to pull $1K if...

    I guess our ideas of running a casino portal are divergent (and that's cool). But in retrospect I doubt anyone would throw away good income to promote brands that just don't produce on their portals.


    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
  15.  
    Bonus Paradise

    Bonus Paradise Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I do understand all the concerns about retroactice terms,
    great posts all.
    I also remember what Grand Prive did, and sure hope this wont happen again with any program.

    Still I dont understand one thing,
    Playshare has this term already longer as far I know.
    We have been also informed about this via e-mail when they added it.
    I find it a bit harsh to tell affiliates stop promoting them.


    Is there no other way, to discuss with them,
    to just fence the player immediatly, this is all about if I did read correct.

     
  16.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    Hi All,

    I just wanted to add one more thing...

    Last year 2008 when Sydney Australia was host to the CAP affiliate convention, Duwayne from Playshare came over.

    Unfortunately I couldn't make it to the event because my mother wasn't well. However Duywane flew in from a nightmare flight...Joburg >> Dubai >> Perth >> and arrived in Sydney at 7am. He then jumped on a burner at 9am and flew to Adelaide (2 hour flight) and arrived here at 11am so we could hook up for a few hours. Then flew back at 3:30pm to Sydney.

    By the time I dropped him at the airport the guy could hardly stand up let alone speak. Maybe those beers I bought him at lunch wasn't such a good idea ;D

    Having been through life's ups and downs over 48 years, I consider myself a pretty good judge of character. Granted Duwayne is an employee of Playshare. But I don't see him as someone who is dodgy. I certainly don't see him as being unapproachable either.

    Sure we've had our disagreements but in the end HE will listen to reason and if he's wrong he'll admit it & or change things to fix the issue(s). Least for me he has.

    I don't know what's transpired with this clause and what's been done to try and have it fixed. But I just wanted to add my personal views about Duwayne my affiliate manager.



    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  17.  
    mojo

    mojo Banned

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    This is so true and it opens the door for other programs to act the same when they see little reaction from affiliates. If we allow this we will have this unfortunate term at every micro. Programs will also feel that terms can be slipped in retroactivly and there's nothing we will do about it.

    BonusParadise, I overreacted earlier. Apologies to you.

    I do understand the income issue. I still have players at PS including my high roller. Early on I posted to Lawrence at the gpwa that I hoped this could be worked out because I always had PS as a staple on my sites and it is otherwise a good program. Should PS correct this issue, they will be right back on my sites.

    However, for our long term goals I have no choice but to replace them. This is something I strongly feel we need to put our foot down on. I have been using 32Red which has an excellent reputation. Red Flush and Villento Brands as well. Go Wild is another. There are quite a few. I have also done quite well with RTGs since the UIEGA.

    Kudos to the crew at guard dog. I know this is the right thing to do but it is difficult. Many of us have had a long term relationship with PS and none of us wanted to see this but business is business.
     
  18.  
    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    Yes, ditto.

    But I have promoted Micro for 8 years and Rival for one - hardly a fair comparison.

    I have a considerable player base at Micros, at Rival it's all in it's infancy.

    This is illegal, period. A contract can only be changed when both parties agree, regardless of whether there is a "catchall" clause in the contract or not.

    All courts in all the world uphold strict contract rules, without honored contracts there would be no trade, only complete chaos.

    Retroactive contract changes must not be allowed unless agreed to by both parties - person by person, each contract. People should be able to opt into or out of the new contract, like Rewards did it.

    In all these years I have been in the business, Grand Privee was the only one who did not eventually give in to affiliate pressure.

    Contract changes have been attempted many times, and affiliates always got together and stood as a united front and the programs came back into the fold. Nothing lost and everything gained.

    Looks like this time nobody cares and the industry can go to hell in a hand basket.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  19.  
    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    well I have made my decision not to drop them, they are open for communication and I always get a reply from them, one of the nicest people I have encountered in the bizz. Besides that I do not think others will do so either unless things get really ugly.

    Wagershare has the same term so promoting them more is useless.

    ;)
     
  20.  
    mojo

    mojo Banned

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    Playshare doesn't track it for you. In my case the player has played much of it back. I foresee this player eventually playing it all back. But guess what. Playshare gets to keep all of my earnings from the first month. :eek:

    So I am tracking it myself but not even sure what the deal is. These are changed but similar numbers to mine:

    Edit: I can't seem to copy it over from excel. Here is a better view:

    The way I think it is


    The way I think it is

    Month Deposit Withdrawal HR Balance
    Jan $5,000.0 $50,000.00 $45,000.00
    Feb $7,000.00 $38,000.00
    March $21,000.00 $17,000.00
    April $800.00 $16,200.00
    May $1,400.00 $14,800.00
    June $3,000.00 $11,800.00
    July $1,200.00 $10,600.00

    With the 1st 10k removed same as other players

    Month Deposit Withdrawal HR Balance
    Jan $5,000.00 50k less 10k $35,000.01
    Feb $7,000.00 $28,000.01
    March $21,000.00 $7,000.01
    April $800.00 $6,200.01
    May $1,400.00 $4,800.01
    June $3,000.00 $1,800.01
    July $1,200.00 $600.01


    Player withdraws again during this time?

    Month Deposit Withdrawal HR Balance Add New WD
    Jan $5,000.00 $50,000.00 $45,000.00
    Feb $7,000.00 $38,000.00
    March $21,000.00 $17,000.00
    April $800.00 $9,000.00 $16,200.00 $19,450.00
    May $1,400.00 $12,200.00 $15,450.00
    June $3,000.00 $9,200.00 $12,450.00
    July $1,200.00 $8,000.00 $11,250.00


    What if they don't include the deposit from Month 1? They don't pay you for your other players so this is likely.

    Month Deposit Withdrawal HR Balance
    Jan $5,000.00 $50,000.00
    Going Forward
    Feb $7,000.00 $42,000.00
    March $21,000.00 $21,000.00
    April $800.00 $20,200.00
    May $1,400.00 $18,800.00
    June $3,000.00 $15,800.00
    July $1,200.00 $14,600.00
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009

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