Active Players + Unique Depositors not working

Discussion in 'VideoSlots Affiliates' started by gobo, Mar 24, 2017.

  1.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    As reported earlier, the activity stats for new players have been blank for players who signed up a few months ago and all the way up to now. The activities for older players are working though.
     
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    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    Would you be so kind to send me a screenshot of what you see for the problem you refer to and email me? ali.atam at videoslots.com
     
  3.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It is really not that much to see. When clicking on "List Activity" for a new player (that has played and generated revenue) you see this: http://imgur.com/boAQLp6 instead of populated rows and columns.
     
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    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    There is also a deduction called "RATE" - what is this??? :confused:
    Is that "Paid Loyalty"?
    What is that exactly?

    And what does (the extremely high) "Admin Fees" cover?

    For the benefit of other affiliates reading this, my breakdown as a percentage of GGR for June was:
    1.3% Jackpot Deductions
    4.7% Tax
    10.9% Bank Fees
    10.1% Games Provide Fees
    24.7% Admin Fees - What is this???
    14.9% Bonuses
    20.4% Rate (Paid Loyalty?)
    13.26% NGR

    This transparency is EXACTLY what we wanted to see, and improves confidence in the brand.
    All the fees seem reasonable, except the 2 HUGE deductions for "Rate" & "Admin" - which I do not know what they are exactly.

    You can see that after all deductions I was left with just NGR of 13.26% of the GGR figure... which explains why earnings are so low compare to the level of deposits.
    The key thing is how this compares to other operators - something I will be looking at in due course.

    Another mystery is my earnings were 8.14% of GGR = about 3% too high (compared to NGR x RS%) o_O

    KK
     
  5.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Ali Atam, when was this Admin Fee introduced exactly? I can't remember seeing it back in 2015 when we will saw the fee breakdowns in the affiliate backend. Also, no affiliate manager or representative from the casino ever told me (email, newsletter or any other way) that this fee was being deducted. Did Videoslots start deducting this fee in secret when you removed the stats in order for the affiliates not to know that it was being done? Kind of just snuck it into the terms and conditions without us knowing?

    Does anyone else remember any admin fees from when we saw the stats prior to the removal of the stats in 2015?
     
  6.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hello KasinoKing,

    Thanks for the feedback - We tried to be as transparent as we could be as promised.

    Rate is not a cost. It is the deal you have. So if your NGR is 1000 and your rate is 50 %, you should see next column - the revenue commission as 500. Fyi - I had a look at your account and I see this rate differently to what you posted.

    24.7% Admin Fees - What is this???

    Admin fees includes all the operating costs we have to run the company such as salaries, marketing costs and so on. If you think it's high, you are of course very welcome to work on CPA if you prefer that.

    Regards,
    Ali
     
  7.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi again,

    We are thinking of releasing the deposits in a unique way that will help affiliates to optimize rather then just showing basic deposit figures. This is why we need a little more time but you can be sure that we are on it. Thanks for your patience.
     
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  8.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hello Gobo,

    This was in our terms and conditions all the time as '' operational fees'' but we have changed the name to ''admin fees'' last month as quite a few people mixed this up with our cashback. If you look at previous posts in this topic, you will see the operational costs being mentioned.

    Regards,
    Ali
     
  9.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    Gobo - I refer to this at Page 4

     
  10.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Yeah, that I understand. But when did you introduce the operational/admin fees in general as a part of the equation? I am asking this since I don't remember seeing them as a fee in 2015. And since there is a "gap in transparancy" between 2015 and now I would like to know when you started deducting operational/admin fees.
     
  11.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It is these kind of initiatives that will win over many old affiliates to start working with you again. A great way to show that you intend to become transparent. Also it will for sure attract many new ones that have not worked with you in the past.
     
  12.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    Appreciated Gobo.
     
  13.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    I can't comment on what happened in 2015 as I wasn't working with the company. However, it has been in the terms and conditions before I started. But now its available for all to see each deduction we do from the gross. I can't change the past but I promise to do my best to deliver a top notch affiliate program going forward. It will take time but I already feel that we are doing progress.

    Regards,
    Ali
     
  14.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Ok, but then the addition of this admin/operational cost might be the reason why many people saw a drop in earnings in the past couple of years. We still can't know for sure since we don't know when these fees were introduced to the affiliates.

    I just wish that there was better communication between VS and the affiliates. It is probably getting better now, but all these "surprises" and decisions without letting us know make us suspicious and frustrated. When asking one of your representatives about how high the admin fees were at one of the affiliate conferences months ago, he told my colleague 20%. Now it is 25%. Either he didn't know what he was talking about or you have raised the fee in the last year (without telling us). The problem here is that you don't state the exact percentage in the terms. That makes it easy for you to raise the admin fee (or any other fee) whenever you see fit, without the majority of the affiliates knowing. Do you understand that this can be frustrating for the affiliates? It would have been so much better for the trust and the relationship if you just told us straight like: "listen, we really need to raise fee X & Y in order to bla bla lba". It doesn't matter for what reason whether it is because the owner wants a new car or if it is shareholder decision as long as you are honest with us.

    I really hope it will work better from now on. In the end, we both just want long relationships where both parties makes money.
     
  15.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Hi Ali,

    As far as online casinos go, VS is akin to a real casino. VS has all the hallmarks of what it takes to keep most players happy. High Rollers not so much. But VS isn't targeting HR's, it's all about low rollers. And, in this regard, it treats low-rollers like VIP's.

    Just so everyone knows...
    I'm not being (or trying to be) contentious. I'm merely trying to get a handle on and, thus make sense of ALL these deductions. They seem oddly high (inflated) compare to other affiliate programs...just saying.


    If I'm in a 25% partnership with a business, then I pay 25% of the runnings/operating costs etc.

    @ 24.7% Admin Fees - if an affiliate is on 25%, then that affiliate should ONLY have $6.175 (per $100) deducted from GGR (their 25%). Not the full 24.7%, which currently seems to be the status qou.

    I certainly don't pay 100% of the operational costs, and then ONLY receive 25% of the profit. I could be wrong here, but it seems like affiliates are wearing 100% of these (Admin Fees etc., etc., etc.) costs?

    This is where things get strange Ali, nothing really adds up.

    I mean, 25% commission at VS isn't 25% commission in affiliates pockets. It's more like (as KK said) 13.26%. It's far worse in some cases, where it hits a lowly 4% commission - 6.257 x (times) less than what's advertised.

    I suppose advertising 13% or at worst 4% commission on the VS affiliate site, isn't going to have webmasters climbing over each other to signup, hey. So instead, the program artifically inflates the commission values...

    Can recall Lucas over at CAP offering affiliates who signed up very early on in the VS program 60% commission for life. Going on the real NGR which ends up in affiliate pockets, that 60% must have been on steriods!

    While you've given affiliates the option to change to a CPA, it's bit late now for those who have been loyal to your Brand for the past 4 years, or for whatever period they've been on Rev-Share.

    I notice VS no longer promotes the... 25% On All Slot Spins.
    In fact (if I'm not mistaken) the name's changed from "Cashback" to "Weekend Booster".

    When that was broken down into its bona fide dollar value, it came in at approx 1%. A far cry from 25% as advertised... just sayin ;)


    VS seem to make it habit of inflating percentage values to make it look-good-on-paper. But when it comes to actual true % dollar value, it's miles apart from what's advertised.

    Which is misleading at best.
    At worst? Well...lets not go there!


    Edit:
    The BIG issue here though is... The people who have promoted VS to the masses, who VS now have signed up as depositing players, these affiliates who referred these players to VS, are being paid crumbs. While VS are clearly making decent profits.

    It's estimated that somwhere between 80 to 95% of all casino players, these players are referred by their affiliate partners.

    VS needs a reality check and here it is... VS would not have these profits, if it wasn't for their affiliate partners... I personally feel Video Slots should start paying their affiliates a fair commission cut, and not the scraps they've been fed for ages now...End of story!
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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    Biti

    Biti Active Member

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    That are heavy deductions, especially because it's hard to negotiate a decent % with them. They want top-top exposure for 40% or 45%, decent exposure for 35%.

    This deductions are insane. It's impossible to earn with them I guess.
     
  17.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    It was mentioned a while back (maybe not this thread but a VS thread here some place)... Affiliates are hit with 85% to 96% in GGR deductions. This would leave true (bona fide) commission earnings at 15% max, to a pathetic 4%.

    The VS affiliate program seems to want the BEST for Video Slots...

    Yet, when it comes to compensating their affiliate partners for these deposit players, they, the VS aff program, treat affiliates akin to 'slave labour'. Actually it's a lot worse. Slave labours know they'll receive a bowl of rice. Vs affiliates are led to believe they'll get a bowl of rice, but instead they only get a few grains of rice.

    It's clear the VS program highly inflate (errr manipulate) the true commission values.
     
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  18.  
    Frank

    Frank Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Or affiliates should just stop promoting these guy's, saying that.. if affs new that they were getting such a small slice they probably wouldn't of signed up any how, hence why these stats were hidden for so long. it's a competitive business and biting the hand that feeds you with greed doesn't float anyone's boat "unless some affs think they are getting a great deal here?" Aussie Dave, I see you broke all the numbers down but i work of a much more simpler method.. how many ftd's to sign up, then average value then finally for every 1000 in player losses how much do i make? The way some of these programs treat affs, they act like we should be thankful to work with them? I can see this thread blowing up............ would anyone here like to quote real earnings per 1000?
     
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  19.  
    Biti

    Biti Active Member

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    I won't drive them any traffic. It is completely not in my interest to support this kind of insane fees. I never ever saw such insane fees and I've seen some.
     
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  20.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    @Frank - I tend to break things down to lessen the chance of loopholes. Most AM's et al seem to be experts in symantics ;)
     
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