What is the overall consensus here?

[GFPC]

I know there has been chatter on this group for a while now. I used to work with them a couple of years ago and had some issues. They were settled and we parted ways.

I just wanted some feedback and opinions on this now - more current since the last posts were a while ago. Has anything changed for the better? I know they are not rogued.

They are listed as predatory - what are the main reasons if someone could chime in please.

 

[bonusgeek]

This is the old cpays right? If so I worked them when I first got into the industry and didn't know much. To make a long story short it didn't take long for them to beat me out of about $5K. So I don't trust them one bit just bc they have a different name and became the marketing arm for a trusted brand like william hill.

It's a shame too because I have talked with a couple affiliate managers from William Hill that I wouldn't mind doing business with on a personal level. Real classy people you know. But it's that old saying screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

 

[DoggyStyle]

I'm promoting them for almost a year. Mainly because of William Hill. One thing is very suspicious: When I started I put banners on my site - top positions. I had not much traffic but still approximately 5 - 15 new sign ups a month.
Now I do very well, have more than 4x the traffic, same banners but no one signs up anymore! A while ago I even bought ad-space on other websites (with huge traffic) and still no new players!
And last month I was up to 2k (from my one and only player I guess). On the very last day of September he has won big and I'm at -4k now.
I don't blame Affutd, but it sucks! Since they have negative carry over it's gonna take months to recover.
I think I am going to drop them.

 

[CaseyM]

Yes shouldnt the negative carryover here AGD Terms Certification be amended to yes

 

[GFPC]

Thanks so far guys for the honest answers. I know about the old Cpay's stuff.
I just did not want to be condemned if I decide to do a trial. I will of course be very protected with whatever I do, Which is why i wanted advanced opinions.

 

[Webzcas]

Affiliates United are in all intents and purposes Casino Pays, with a new name and a new site. The people that worked for CPays, now work for Affiliates United.

Whilst they may now be part of William Hill Online, WHO is part owned by Playtech who part owned CPays.

I wouldn't work with them personally, as there are too many horror stories out there, including affiliates being messed around when it comes to being paid.

 

[arkyt]

The name CPays should serve as a big red stop sign here... but hey its your traffic.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Which is why i wanted advanced opinions.

If your going to trial them (personally I wouldn't touch them with a 30 foot barge pole) do a CPA, not rev share.

The old CPays was busted doing unethical cross marketing. And seeing Affiliate United is just a re-brand of the former I say nothing has changed.

CasinoAffiliateFrauds.com - AD-GENCY and CASINO PAYS and cPAYS should be avoided because they are dishonest crooks

Webrouteservices owned by CPAYS

Cpays - An insider reveals all

There's more info about Cpays if you look around but that's a starter for you.

Cheers



Dave

 

[Vladi]

We were ripped off by cpays for several thousand a few years ago.

But it is not just the rip offs, it is the pressure tactics they will use on you. The constant badgering for more exposure, the threats to cancel your deal if you don't comply, not to mention the shaving, spamming, competing portals, blackhat SEO etc. You name it, these guys are into it up to their necks.

Its the same people using different name. Do yourself a favour and don't go there.

 

[GFPC]

Thanks for all the comments guys. I really appreciate them!

 

[KasinoKing]

These are my experiences/observations:

I had a few depositing players with the old Will Hill (Crypto) who mysteriously completely vanished when AffUtd took over...

All their casinos except Will Hill had diabolically bad welcome bonuses at that time - they were more like player traps than bonuses - virtually guaranteed that players could not win (ludicrously high WR & Phantom).

I did promote the new WH for about a year - but according to AffUtd I never had even 1 registration.
The final straw came last June when a respected member at CM told me he had joined & deposited using my link - but still nothing showed on my reports.
I e-mailed them to ask about it - no reply.
That was it - I dumped them.

Finally: I had joined the new (Playtech) Will Hills myself in May 2009 and took the welcome bonus. Unfortunately I failed to take a screenshot of the T&C's, but I'm 99% sure they changed the bonus from Cashable to Phantom between my deposit (May-14th) and my cash-out request (June-16th).
I still made a profit anyway, but that change cost me £150.

I used to love Will Hills as a player in the Crypto days - but I just can't trust AffUtd.

KK

 

[ginigo]

I don't believe this..

I can't believe this, we're just getting ready to launch a few sites and William Hill is in all of them. Just last week we had to take down Bwin (Belossers) because of all the predatory stories surrounding them and now HW too?

I just don't get it, I see big brands beging labeled as predatory then other smaller operators getting outstanding reviews! ???

 

[lots0]

I just don't get it, I see big brands begging labeled as predatory then other smaller operators getting outstanding reviews!

Thats cuz some of the big guys figure that we, as affiliates, have out lived our usefulness to them.

See once affs help to make these casinos a "name" and a real destination on the web, some of them figure they don't needs us anymore and they start to treat us like crap.

Cpays or affiliates united or whatever they decide to call themselves in the future is a perfect example of this. I remember back when they used to beg affs to join them and treated affs like gold... But their attitude toward affs changed when they stared making REAL money and decided that it was OK to ripp us off at every opportunity.

They made a real bad name for themselves as "CPay"... Hence the name change to "Affiliates United". As soon as "Affiliates United" becomes widely associated with the bad stuff that went on at "CPays", I'll bet they change their name again.

They hurt me perdy bad, a while back, with the dirty SEO they were paying for, hacked wordpress blogs... IMHO these guys are a step below Pond Scum.

 

[baldidiot]

It's a shame because I kind of want to be able to promote WH but don't really want anything to do with this group.

Plus they went through a phase of sending me emails every other day trying to get me to sign up, which implies they'd be a PITA to work with...

 

[casinobonusguy]

We just started working with William Hill a month ago.I was contacted by an affiliate manager in Greece , we rank for some things in Greece and I felt there was no way I would work with them but I have to say this manager is very good and has been a positive experience for us.The conversions are good as well ,there was a 30 day prepayment but it makes sense for us to keep them on because of the revshare amounts the campaign are generating for us.

 

[justbookies]

Obviously William Hill is a big honest UK brand that we would love to promote. Until not so long ago we did. But frankly I can't trust the dismal affiliate software plus I have seen some suspicious stats and the retention of players is a joke. I dont know where they disappear to. Sign-up numbers not good either, but maybe that's our fault. The Cpays connection is a big issue too, because as the trust has been lost the thought has become that maybe a leopard doesn't change its spots.
Now they are going on strike in Israel and the marketing chief has resigned having refused William Hill access to its own data. Incredible. William Hill were mad to do the deal they did and move hands on control to Israel.
When there are so many good honest UK-facing affiliate programs we just don't need these concerns.
William Hill - no problem; AffUtd - big problem.

 

[Vladi]

William Hill were mad to do the deal they did and move hands on control to Israel.
When there are so many good honest UK-facing affiliate programs we just don't need these concerns.
William Hill - no problem; AffUtd - big problem.

Totally agree. This current situation is called blowback. Deal with crooks and it comes back to bite you.

WH would be better to shut shop in Israel, move things to Gibraltar or wherever they are headquartered and employ some new staff that don't have this cpays stigma attached.

 

[justbookies]

WH would be better to shut shop in Israel, move things to Gibraltar or wherever they are headquartered and employ some new staff that don't have this cpays stigma attached.

Definitely. And I think they will after this from the telegraph today:

William Hill sacks seven managers after Tel Aviv plot.

William Hill has sacked seven senior managers and several junior staff at its online betting joint-venture after discovering an alleged plan to set up a rival business.

Ralph Topping, chief executive, has spent the past four days restoring order at the Tel Aviv office of William Hill Online (WHO), the venture 79pc-owned by the UK bookmaker and 21pc by Playtech.

Most of the 180 staff walked out last week in the wake of the resignation of chief marketing officer Eyal Sanoff – an associate of Playtech's 40pc shareholder Teddy Sagi. Copycat walkouts followed at WHO's Bulgaria office and a business in Manila owned by Playtech, where WHO is a major customer. All three businesses were once owned by Mr Sagi.

Mr Topping became suspicious when the Tel Aviv office denied the bookie access to its computer systems. It hired former Israeli intelligence officers, also finding in the process that a rabbi, fish feeder and hairdresser were on the books – as well as payments for table-tennis coaching.

Henry Birch, WHO's chief executive, and Jim Mullen, its chief operating officer, will be based in Tel Aviv for the next few months. Mr Topping, who returns for a board meeting on Tuesday, would only say: "I'm absolutely furious but cannot comment further."

And the real truth will be much worse than just employing friends and family on the quiet.

If you ever wondered about those ridiculous stats from Affutd, as we have, well after reading that, you were probably right. This should be a rogue program.

The Affiliates United stats need to be re-run from day one.

 

[KasinoKing]

William Hill were mad to do the deal they did and move hands on control to Israel.
When there are so many good honest UK-facing affiliate programs we just don't need these concerns.
William Hill - no problem; AffUtd - big problem.

Agree!

If you ever wondered about those ridiculous stats from Affutd, as we have, well after reading that, you were probably right. This should be a rogue program.

The Affiliates United stats need to be re-run from day one.

Agree!

After the sell-out to Cpays I did give them a try, but after a year with no sign-ups (according to them) I became convinced they were a cheating program, so dumped them.
I was approached to give them another try from July this year, which I did. But the result was exactly the same. So now I need to dump them again!

I trust Will Hills 100%, but I trust AffUtd 25%...

KK

 

[Vladi]

What I find most unbelievable is that only now William Hill is catching on that they joined up with a bunch of crooks. Teddy Sagi served jail time for stock market fraud FFS. Joyland Casino stole 2 million Euros from a jackpot winner shortly before WH acquired them and wiped their hands of the matter.

I've had several email exchanges with them always going on and on about the prestige of the WH name and how they would never do anything wrong, and would we please place them front and centre on our homepages, and demanding that we remove negative reviews of the dodgy cpays casinos they acquired. They were in complete and utter denial. But now it seems that the penny has finally dropped.