Videoslots admin fee

[Ali Atam]

The surprise/problem is that Videoslots did not communicate the addition of the admin fee / operational cost when it got introduced. Instead everything points at that you introduced it while we did not have access to the stats breakdown in order to hide it, not to piss the affiliates off (2015?). This is worrying since it is a huge change to the affiliates bottom line. The introduction of the admin fee / operational cost cut the affiliates earnings by 25%. This is not just a minor change Ali. Could you just please tell us when it got introduced so that we know and don't have to speculate/try to investigate it ourselves?

Hi Gobo,

I've checked this for you.

In the old system the admin fee and taxes was deducted from the GGR. It was not visible in any stats. The admin fee was there since the launch of the program.

I'm here to make the program better for you. So instead of telling me over and over again how much Videoslots program sucks due to the past, tell me how you want me to make it better for the future. I will do my best to deliver it. You can see that we are listening to your feedback and we are working to delivering 100% transparency.

Back to admin fees - There are several programs here, even platinum programs that have admin fees. Some of them do not even mention what their fees are. From those ones who are transparent, you can find some brands with lower fees and you can find ours higher compared to some other brands. But I think one of the key fact you should not miss is that that our life time player value is also 5 times double than the average compared to any other e.g. Netent casino. It costs money and resources to retain players for us but as an affiliate, in the long run you will make more.

 

[Shay]

Hi Gobo,

I've checked this for you.

In the old system the admin fee and taxes was deducted from the GGR. It was not visible in any stats. The admin fee was there since the launch of the program.

I'm here to make the program better for you. So instead of telling me over and over again how much Videoslots program sucks due to the past, tell me how you want me to make it better for the future. I will do my best to deliver it. You can see that we are listening to your feedback and we are working to delivering 100% transparency.

Back to admin fees - There are several programs here, even platinum programs that have admin fees. Some of them do not even mention what their fees are. From those ones who are transparent, you can find some brands with lower fees and you can find ours higher compared to some other brands. But I think one of the key fact you should not miss is that that our life time player value is also 5 times double than the average compared to any other e.g. Netent casino. It costs money and resources to retain players for us but as an affiliate, in the long run you will make more.

Devil's advocate here - it shouldn't matter what other programs are doing especially if the past is not productive in being brought up.

That being said, a straight forward, transparent method of calculating revenue would be a simple equation deposits (adjusted down less a share of taxes based on the percentage rev share the affiliate is on) less cashouts = GGR. Then, GGR * commission percentage = NGR. It is that simple and any step beyond that is over complicating things.

Unless we're 50-50, why should any fees other than taxes be shared with the affiliate? Do affiliates push back with the cost of mailers, content writers, or hosting? Of course they don't, as that is their cost of doing business just like transaction fees, licencing fees, and such things are your program's cost of doing business. Those costs are built into the program's rev share model (we have costs, which is why you will not be getting 50% rev share). Additionally, I'd think that these admin fees are passively built into the player's risk anyway so that the casino is statistically profitable whereas the tax is not. Same with the bonus money. Bonus money only becomes a revenue share factor if there's a cashout.

I think you'll find that simplifying the commission process will result in happier affiliates. Just my two cents, which I provide without admin fees.

 

[KasinoKing]

Back to admin fees...

Hi Ali,

I would appreciate it if you would answer the question I asked in the other thread:

If the Admin fees are all your running costs, deducted from GGR - what is the percentage left from the NGR after my commission is paid for?
e.g. Say NGR was 1,000 - my deal was 40% - so I get 400.
So what is the other 600 for? Just clear profit for the casino?

I always thought most casino's running costs were taken from the other 60% of the NGR - not deducted BEFORE arriving at NGR...

Cheers,
KK

 

[gobo]

Hi Gobo,

I've checked this for you.

In the old system, the admin fee and taxes were deducted from the GGR. It was not visible in any stats. The admin fee was there since the launch of the program.

Is that really true? When I look at old screenshots of the daily reports from the end of 2014 the columns are VERY clear and easy to understand. The columns were: Gross, Bonuses, Casino Cashback, License Fee, Bank Fee, My Casino Deal, Profit. Very easy to understand.
The Gross - Casino Cashback - License Fee - Bank Fee equaled to Profit each day under the daily reports. I also have records of Lucas Godwin (the old AM back then) who explained the breakdown the same way as expected. No admin fee of 25% before or after deductions.

Also from the Videoslots terms (2015-04-24):

Your Revenue Share is calculated from the casino’s earnings of Your referred players minus Our game license fee, casino bonuses, jackpot fees and chargebacks.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Biti]

But I think one of the key fact you should not miss is that that our life time player value is also 5 times double than the average compared to any other e.g. Netent casino. It costs money and resources to retain players for us but as an affiliate, in the long run you will make more.

Do you have any proof of your claim that your player value is 5 times double than the average?

By the way, it costs money and resources to drive traffic to you, these costs are also making that more traffic is driven to the casinos... so why we don't take them into account too when calculating which sum we are going to share?

 

[Frank]

Do you have any proof of your claim that your player value is 5 times double than the average?

I believe it is 5 times... for them, whilst you guys get pennies on the dollar after all these ridiculous charges slapped on top.

It costs money and resources to retain players

As it takes Money, time , resources, experience, and some of us teams, salaries marketing, and offices to get you these players you care so much about.. the money that it costs you is the money that affiliates generate for you for the players they sent to you.. This is the typical attitude of contempt I despise. There are plenty of good programs and only a few positions on Google, choose your working partners well people.

 

[AussieDave]

A very clear agenda and distinct motivation, fueled the removal of these player data statistics.

@Ali Atam - the VS affiliate program does "sucks" - it sucks affiliates earnings down its throat, and into its own coffers. Spin that anyway you like, but facts don't lie

NB - To give folks an idea of the caliber of operator we're dealing with here...

Back in 2012, a player won €3.9K at VS. Short story version... the powers that be at VS, went in and edited the bonus T&C's (post contains screen caps), after this player made a withdrawal. Then proceeded to use the aforementioned FU clause(s) to void this player's winnings. https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...onus-issues/48364-deucebag-vs-videoslots.html
(btw KK you liked the above post)

After the story went public, and a few days of forum posts, Alexander the (then and current) CEO and founder of VS, contacted the player and, his winnings were paid.

It's a moot point if the player was paid or not. The issue back then, and what this story highlights, is a sheer lack of honesty. No ethical operator would edit the T&C's... using the trumped-up terms to void winnings.

I too have had dealings with Alexander CEO/founder of Video Slots. Had reason to contact him a few months ago, with regard to a High Roller player issue... lol...He ignored my email. Must have been too busy counting all the cash shaved from VS affiliates, to be concerned or bothered to write back about this single VS High Roller player.

People may forget your name, but no one will forget how your treated them...

Anyway...I don't own AGD but if I did, VS Aff partners would still be in the Doghouse.

However I do own DOCH, and I've now, Blacklisted Video Slots Affiliates.

I haven't rogued Video Slots Casino because, that seems to be running correctly, and, people are paid quickly etc etc. So unless I dig up anything dodgy/unethical going on there, the casino is safe

 

[Ali Atam]

Hi Everyone, thank you for all your feedback, its appreciated!

As mentioned couple of times, I was not with the company long enough to answer the question re admin fee introduction. So Gobo requested me to ask someone who has been long in the office and the info I got is that its been there since launch. It was not available in the stats, it was deducted on calculation of the gross and not the Revenue Share.

Since I took over, I manage to get you a full breakdown on everything all costs in detail, more than most programs offer. Within 1 to 2 months you will have both deposit and withdrawal report as well.

Please note that I will be away for a couple of weeks so apologies for any delayed answers if any.

Regards,
Ali

 

[Ali Atam]

Hi Ali,

I would appreciate it if you would answer the question I asked in the other thread:


Cheers,
KK

Hi KK,

Most of these earnings you are asking about goes to re-invest in the business and expand.

However, the admin fee covers the retention of current operation to deliver a premium service to the players we have. All from express payments to a full team sitting and helping people online on forums 24/7 or on social media. We do a lot of different things to keep players with us instead of leaving for other brands. We have extremely high costs for compliance and oncoming regulation in Europe. We have again really high costs to maintain a lag-free environment. This list goes on. Just checking KYC - we get over 1000 documents per day to review and we don't want customers to wait more than couple of hours. All of these cost a lot to us but it gave us a great reputation among the players - This is why we have a much better retention than other brands.

Hope it makes sense to you.

Regards,
Ali

 

[KasinoKing]

Hope it makes sense to you.

Yes that all makes sense - but it DOESN'T answer the question I asked.

You're taking a 25% Admin fee of the GGR, and additionally taking another 60% of the NGR...
Each of those can be (have been) £1,000's per month just from 1 affy account (mine) so you must be taking VAST sums from all your affiliates combined (not to mention even more from players who find you and sign-up direct without any affiliate involved).

Using one of Dave's terms - it certainly LOOKS like double-dipping...

KK

 

[XenThe]

I dropped Videoslots last year due to low income. However, one thing I will give them credit for is their retention. Even though I havent promoted them for 1 year, I still make the same money today as 12 months ago. Looking at it now, I have probably made more money on my players there compared to many other casinos.
So I have a bit of a love and hate scenario here. Don't really want to promote these guys, however looking at the numbers I might have to.

They are similar to Guts, dropped them as well, but still making cash there as well.

 

[Frank]

I dropped Videoslots last year due to low income. However, one thing I will give them credit for is their retention. Even though I havent promoted them for 1 year, I still make the same money today as 12 months ago. Looking at it now, I have probably made more money on my players there compared to many other casinos.
So I have a bit of a love and hate scenario here. Don't really want to promote these guys, however looking at the numbers I might have to.

They are similar to Guts, dropped them as well, but still making cash there as well.

Great first post

 

[gobo]

As mentioned couple of times, I was not with the company long enough to answer the question re admin fee introduction. So Gobo requested me to ask someone who has been long in the office and the info I got is that its been there since launch. It was not available in the stats, it was deducted on calculation of the gross and not the Revenue Share.

So do you mean that the admin fee was deducted from the gross? Like Gross = bets - wins - 25% admin fee? Are you serious about this?

As I see it, either the people you asked are giving you wrong information or the former AM Lucas Godwin gave out the wrong information to the affiliates since he never mentioned any admin / operational fee in the clear breakdowns he gave me. I am sorry, but I have to go with my gut-feeling on this one and trust the former AM. Especially since Videoslots was avoiding questions about deductions and the admin fee like the plague a couple of months ago - it is all visible here in the forums.

Also, hearing that the admin fee was 20% at a conference from one of your representatives do not give you that much credit now either.

Sorry about all the questions but in my opinion, it is because of your vague answers and dodging questions that these threads keep on going. I just want to understand all the terms and the program to 100% since it is not that clear in your t&c. Many affilaites are now suspicious of your program and rightfully so in my opinion.

 

[Biti]

Really, why still want to understand it? I guess:

- basic information removed
- insane fees
- the way questions are answered and earlier ignored by Miles

are enough to conclude this is not a program I want to work with. I am not going to pay for affiliate managers talking about beer, burgers and politics complete days at GPWA-forum.

 

[Guard Dog]

I think the majority of us know this.... but I will state it since people go off the deep edge so often lately (according to the many, many threads I have been reading over the last 2 days):

Admin Fee is taking out of pretty much every program. It is typically hidden and the programs will not expose it. They call it GGR or any number of acronyms, but the bottom line is they pull that fee out before they show us the calculations the majority of the time. Calculations show up as:

Revenue = GGR - x - y - z

But GGR = Deposits - Wins - Admin Fees (whatever those might be - differ for each program)



Who really doesn't know this? And, yes, I'm serious.... This has been going on for a VERY long time. It is a way for the programs to say they give us 40% revshare when they don't do even close to that. I detailed those calculations a long time ago here for everyone to see. That was at *least* 5 years ago - I will have to dig up that post.

 

[PaaskeUK]

Really, why still want to understand it? I guess:

- basic information removed
- insane fees
- the way questions are answered and earlier ignored by Miles

are enough to conclude this is not a program I want to work with. I am not going to pay for affiliate managers talking about beer, burgers and politics complete days at GPWA-forum.

I can not come out with any name. But i basically was abroad with someone from Videoslots Management. And he is higher up the line. He basically was laughing with me and said we do not need affiliates. Because i asked him and said its not really worth it for me to promote you as you have so many deductions etc. And he laughed. He is a great guy nothing bad there and at least he was honest. The way Videoslots wants to promote themselves is through social media platforms that is what i was told. I am staying off Videoslots Affiliates as not worth the hard work they take most of the earnings and who knows what happens one day i bet they wont be around within next couple years.

My post here is serious i can not put out any name but still feel it is fair to post this here.

The reason is i have lost contact with myself now which proofs as i actually won a prize with Videoslots and they promised to publish a video where they would add affiliate links to my site which also never happened. In my world Videoslots has some great people working behind the lines I can and will not say anything bad there. I had a great time on my trip. But you need to be within their Staff to earn money and have a good time.

There is also a big reason why Kim > aka Letsgiveitaspin stopped using them on Twitch........Kim is not stupid he is a very clever and great guy.

 

[Kristine]

I always thought GGR "gross" was not net of anything.

 

[Guard Dog]

I always thought GGR "gross" was not net of anything.

Should be, but it is just a 'term' to many. Trust me - seen it. It is a placeholder for the Net Profit that programs use to base our revshare off of. They can either hide the 'Admin Fee' (administrative costs) or they can show it in terms. But it is nearly always there... check around.

 

[gobo]

Most of the programs that I have worked with that have an "admin fee" or an "operational cost" usually lumps in some/most/all of deductions such as "bank fee", "game license" or other fees that kind of makes sense or are acceptable. Take Cherry Affiliates as an example - they have a 25% admin fee. However, this admin fee includes, and I quote from another thread here at AGD: "jackpot contribution, game licenses, game royalties, finance fees". This makes way more sense IMO than Videoslots' admin fee which does cover stuff like electricity, salaries, etc - costs that should be covered by their part of the revenue share deal according to me.

Of course, most of us have heard of admin fees. However, in this case, together with all other variables (removal of stats, broken promises, avoidances, different answers from different AMs) it really makes a lot of us suspicious. To turn this around and restore the trust to Videoslots, we want more detailed answers than when talking to many other affiliate programs. I hope this is understandable both for the representatives at VS and the staff here at AGD. In the end, we all just want to make money.

 

[mas]

I have seen a quite steep decrease in earnings (even with better deposit stats) as well. Some kind of change that have had negative impact on the affiliates have happened.

 

[admin]

The Affiliate Management team has been notified of the new post.