Videoslots admin fee

Discussion in 'VideoSlots Affiliates' started by gobo, Jul 5, 2017.

  1.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Since I am not satisfied with the reply I got in the huge thread about Videoslots regarding the admin fee I will create a new thread, so that is easy for any representative of Videoslots to reply to our questions.

    Approximately when was the admin fee / operational cost introduced to us affiliates? Since I can't recall seeing it before the removal of the stats in 2015 (does anyone else recall any deductions for admin / operational costs back in 2015?) I would like to when since I guess it must have happened between 2015-2017. Am I right or wrong about this assumption?

    I am aware that Ali & Miles might not have worked so long for VS but you are still representing them now, and you are our to-go-ppl to ask questions about the affiliate program. If you don't know this information - could you please ask anyone who knows at the office? I really would like to know since this might explain a sudden drop in earnings for me. Since this must have made a huge difference for the bottomline for Videoslots I guess many people at the office know exactly when.

    Thanks alot guys!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
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  2.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I am now sure that there was no admin fee / operational cost in the end of 2014. So when did Videoslots start with deucting the admin fee / operational cost from the GGR? That is a huge change that should have been corresponded out to all the affiliates, but I can not find any email or anything regarding this matter. Anyone else got any info regarding this fee when it got introduced?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  3.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    The screenshot below shows 2 old affiliate reports.

    The top one is what was shown from when I started promoting them in Jan 2014 up to April 2015.
    The one below is what was shown from May 2015 to September 2016 (Note that all the fee's fields were removed)
    Neither of these show any "admin fee".

    From October 2016 until last month - we had the current system with virtually nothing shown at all!
    So I would guess that was when they started taking the admin fee off GGR, and not from what was left of the NGR after paying the affiliate's commission... (?)

    VS_Jan-Jun15.jpg

    PS: The top report never showed Gambling Tax, which started from November 2014 - but this WAS deducted from GGR.

    KK
     
  4.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    I said I wasn't going to post to the 'other' (9 page) VS thread...

    Wow KK, you bring in 8 NDP's, and with 25 total players, they drop 7.2K. From that your left with GGR = 3K. But the slaughter doesn't stop there. Your hammered back to the stone age. Leaving you an awesome commission :rolleyes: of £92.37

    The cashback - how much of that was played back to the casino???!!! What ever is not withdrawn, instead played back to the casino, should be added to GGR, not subtracted from it!

    Bonuses, should be added to GGR, then subtracted from GGR. Not just subtracted from GGR.

    Bonuses Should = Double Bookkeeping Entry Formula

    Reiterating, looks like VS are hitting affiliates with 100% of their operational business costs, across their entire company portfolio.

    Edit:
    In case you didn't crunch the numbers KK...

    You earned a WHOPPING 3% commission on that £3,077.81 GGR

    1.29% commission on £7,203.31 Deposited

    Yes, it seems everything is Kosher here boys and girls :eek:


    In all seriousness, the writing is on the wall here...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
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  5.  
    Kristine

    Kristine Affiliate Program Representative

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    Can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying it should wash itself out from GGR if lost but stay subtracted if withdrawn?
     
  6.  
    Biti

    Biti Active Member

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    Bonus costs can be deducted and when a bonus is played through and cashed out, it's a withdrawal of course and should be deducted too. Personally, I think it's fair to deduct bonus costs. If a casino gives away € 100 bonus money, they pay commission to gaming providers for this € 100. What is not fair, is to deduct the whole bonus amount when it's not cashed out...

    The fees of VS are completely insane. They just put all their costs, while I cannot put mine. Hence, I am paying for their stand at conference or for their affiliate managers chatting about burgers and beer at GPWA forum. No way José.
     
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  7.  
    SnazzySlots

    SnazzySlots Member

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    "If anyone don't agree with this concept or on the other alternative deal types we offer, we of course wish them best of luck with other programs"

    Quoted from the other thread...

    Very easy for them to say this and evade all questions about how, when and where. In my book, all these changes were made to cloak their deductions and basically let US fit their operational costs.

    They continue to do this... and if questioned - 'Look guys, we gave you the stats - see how transparent we are' - all whilst hiding or neglecting to add other VITAL stats. They could have added them, but come up with excuses of how difficult it is to add or how they are working on it.

    Stats and key information are deliberately being withheld. One can only speculate that it is never in the interest of their 'Partners'. Again, they love to dodge answering questions like Lucas did. Ask them about when it was introduced and you will meet the same old stuck record - 'It was before my time' or 'I have no idea about that'

    Really? From my comparisons to some other programs it would seem that I am being shafted 20% more here than anywhere else. In the words of another affiliate manager - 'You got RAPED'

    Nate
     
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  8.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    I asked about this some time ago, and they said these bonuses ARE included in the GGR (if the player loses the money back to the casino).
    And that's how it should be, of course. All "profit" made from play is GGR, no matter where the money originally came from.

    KK
     
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  9.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    I confirm what KasinoKing said.

    Regards,
    Ali
     
  10.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    To be fair, you can't read TOO much into just one or 2 months - players do win and cash-out sometimes!
    (I took my last £400 deposit at VS to over £11,000 if you remember! :cool:)

    That month was quite bad - but the second report in my screenshot was even worse.
    Digging down into the detail by player (which was available at the time) I found the casino's NGR was -£845.

    I don't have a problem with that - I see negative months at ALL the casinos I promote.
    And remember, if a month is negative and the casino has no NCO, they have to recover that loss from future income.
    (For the record, in 2015 I had 4 negative months at VS, and 2 negative in 2016).

    I just checked all 15 months when they had the original reports (Feb'14 to Apr'15), my best comm as a % of GGR was 21%, and my average was 6.5%. Of course, some months were very low and some were 0% (negative months).

    Finally...
    I actually wish you would soften your "aggressive" attitude towards VS on these issues.
    I understand you have your fellow affiliate's best interest at heart, even though you don't actually promote them yourself. But myself I want to work WITH the operator on these issues to get a better understanding of all the facts & figures.
    Once I (and everyone else) know exactly what to expect when promoting VS, we can each make our own decision as to whether we want to work with them, or not.

    KK
     
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  11.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    Maybe you haven't realised, but all these VS dramas have been on-going since 2014, when VS removed the data. This year, Miles played semantics, side stepping and not answering direct questions about the GGR deductions.

    Granted, Ali Atam steps up to the plate, but only after VS are thrown into the Doghouse. Clearly the motivation of full-disclosure and, 100% transparency wasn't anywhere on the VS radar, until that chain of events took place.

    The latest issue, the deposits or is that the withdrawals - it's one of them. Instead of just reinstating the damn thing(s), Ali and Alison now state they wont be reinstated back till August/September. Why? Some (again) undisclosed secret, that will make this specific stata data, really helpful to VS affiliates.

    You know what would have been REALLY HELPFUL? (Leaving aside the past broken promises), reinstate these damn stat(s)... sheesh!

    Delays, excuses, justifications, reneged promises, the list goes on and on...

    Unless you have an undisclosed contra deal with VS (KK), I'm truly at a loss, as to why you are protecting a company, who, treats you, and their affiliate partners like suckers!
    • I'm not the one who removed the stats, or reneged on the promises to reinstate them either.
    • I'm not the CEO Alexander, who promised you in person, he'd get the stats issue sorted back in Jan/Feb 2017, but never did anything.
    • I haven't played semantics or lead affiliates up the garden path with fabricated Bullshit.
    • I'm certainly not responsible for ferociously (and with severe prejudice), deduct 100% of my companies expenditures from affiliates.
    • If I've left anything else out, sorry!
    I have, and always will, stand up for the underdogs. Those who aren't comfortable voicing the obvious, or more to the point, getting justice. If that makes you, or anyone else uncomfortable, sorry. BUT don't chastise me for my valid concerns. Instead, contemplate the reason why people are getting annoyed. 9 times out of 10 it's because I'm airing the TRUTH.

    In the catch cry of DOCH - Keeping the bastards Honest!!!

    Being passive ONLY works for reasonable people. Being this way, other times, doesn't. This is one of those times...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
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  12.  
    casinonewbie

    casinonewbie Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    ;)
     
  13.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    @AussieDave

    With all respect, we will not get anywhere if you keep on mentioning what happened in the past. I think you made yourself very clear on several posts how you are not happy with what happened in the past.

    And as you mentioned, I was not at VS during that time. But still, I wrote several times that removing stats was a mistake and I am not the only one who thinks like this in the company today. This is why we got the approval from management and created this new report to give you what you guys wanted.

    I know it is not complete yet but it will be when we add deposits and withdrawals too.

    In the meantime we are also telling you we can share this information ANYTIME if you require it from the team. But I wonder why you never came to us and asked for deposit figures for over 2 months now. Instead, you kept on repeating yourself on the forum, accusing us with hiding stuff, delays, excuses etc.

    Do you really think we would launch this report if our intentions are to hide something? Do you really think I will say we will add deposits / withdrawals by August / September update if it is not the case?

    I don't know if you have a different agenda but mine is just to help you guys to get the transparency you wanted from us. We promised it and we delivered it. And we will deliver the next one too.

    Now - Whether you find our fees higher or not - That is a different story and as I said on the other topic, we are flexible on various deals but if you still don't think they are good enough, we wish you good luck with other programs.

    I am writing this because I feel that this topic is going nowhere if you keep on talking about 2014, 2015 etc..

    Hope it makes sense.

    Regards,
    Ali
     
  14.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    No I don't have any "special deal" with them - just a normal rev-share agreement.
    I'm not "protecting" them in any way - otherwise I wouldn't have published my shocking stats, would I?

    Believe me I have been VERY disappointed with them ever since these key stats were removed and have come VERY close to dumping them from my site several times.
    But, despite their (apparently) highest fees & deductions anywhere, the bottom lines are...
    a) I am confident they treat their players extremely fairly.
    b) I am still earning more with them than just about any other similar casino. (Albeit because I have many times more players there than other places). In these very tough times it would be hard to just give up that income.
    c) I think it's better to fight from the inside (i.e. while actively promoting) than from the outside.

    KK
     
  15.  
    Frank

    Frank Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    This admin fee is a big surprise.. or could they have been shaving then added in this admin fee "legal speak" to cover their backs after secretly hiding these stats away? However you feel about the program the facts speak for themselves .. it's been dishonest from the start
     
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  16.  
    Ali Atam

    Ali Atam Affiliate Program Representative

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    What is the surprise here Frank? We have commented about it 3 months ago before the breakdown report was available and now we are saying exactly the same thing.

    http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/co...epositors-not-working.10655/page-4#post-78130
     
  17.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Ali, I would still like to get an answer from my initial question in this thread; when was the admin fee introduced?

    Thanks!
     
  18.  
    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    crazy
     
  19.  
    Frank

    Frank Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Ali you can word it however you like, was there any mention of this fee prior to 3 months? or was this tacked on when the fire was lit? to cover the massive hammering of legitimate comms? fact is we all know why the fee's were hidden and it wasn't for anybody's benefit apart from your own, one of my pet hates is the contempt for affiliates and I know there are others that work 16 hour days like myself and have invested years and huge sums of money only to get floored with some cocky word play in the terms on stats which have been hidden for over a year.

    I have made previous threads about this and it's growth and now feel it's about time the industry standard changed
     
  20.  
    gobo

    gobo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    The surprise/problem is that Videoslots did not communicate the addition of the admin fee / operational cost when it got introduced. Instead everything points at that you introduced it while we did not have access to the stats breakdown in order to hide it, not to piss the affiliates off (2015?). This is worrying since it is a huge change to the affiliates bottom line. The introduction of the admin fee / operational cost cut the affiliates earnings by 25%. This is not just a minor change Ali. Could you just please tell us when it got introduced so that we know and don't have to speculate/try to investigate it ourselves?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017

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