Elmount Gaming Gaming Tagging Issue

Discussion in 'Ellmount Gaming' started by GCPortals, Apr 15, 2017.

  1.  
    CasinoRoom AM

    CasinoRoom AM Affiliate Program Representative

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    hey guys,

    sorry for late reply.

    i dont know why this player failed to sign up correctly. i have never had a player or affiliate complaining about this the last 6 years (since i got started with casinoroom.com).

    feel free to test our tracking facilities should there be any doubts.

    the result we have on this player has absolutely zero impact.

    i cant tag players retroactively to affiliates and specially not ~7 months after registration.

    as mentioned again i have sent you and your colleague a more then fair proposal how we can move forward on this.

    /t
     
  2.  
    Shay

    Shay Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    If your program retained enough of the registration to ascertain an email address, it would be reasonable to believe the program could have (or should have) retained the original tracker from which the player signed up. We work with programs where the player signs up and then perhaps a year later, converts to a depositing player. I would flip if a program knowingly credited anyone other than me for that conversion a year later regardless of the link he clicked after the fact.
     
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    CasinoRoom AM

    CasinoRoom AM Affiliate Program Representative

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    hi shay,
    in this case the player has not signed up via a tracker because then he would have been tagged. we would never remove a player from an affiliate even if the first deposit comes in a year later. same goes with later cpa qualifiers.
    /tomas
     
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    GCPortals

    GCPortals Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Still ignoring the facts. The seasoned/experienced player signed up through our link. Had a technical issue with the sign up.
    He reached out to your support team about the issue. Your guys sent him a new link to follow to complete the registration.
    Any chance that the technical issue and your guys sending a new link is the reason they aren't tagged to us? My guess would be yes.
    Was the intent to sign up through us? According to the player, it was. Your reasons not to pay the money and retag the player is because he isn't tagged to us which there is a good reason for, the technical issue which hasn't been disputed because the player provided the e-mails......., you can't tag him which I know not to be the case and other posts have confirmed and because you are a net negative on this player even though you owe us some revenue. So lets just call it what it is as you did from our discussions. You are at a net negative for the player and don't want to pay up or do the right thing. Trying to justify the situation when the facts don't lend themselves to your arguments makes things look worse. You feel it is Ok to capitalize a technical issue and to ignore the intent of the player because you are at a net negative. No information that you post will change this. I don't suspect you would feel great if a player used a technical issue to take money from your casino. I am guessing that you would not be very happy. Think about it in these simple terms and you might understand the other sides position.
     
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  7.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    @Richard Gibbons - Mate I'd forgot this one. Pull all their banners and what not. Notch this one down to a lesson learned. It's pretty clear something not Kosher took place here, with regards to the player not-being-tagged to you. IMHO way too many conflicting stories are being thrown up by the AM. My advice, drop them like a hot cake, and move on.

    Could be all manner of reasons... Loss of connection, wife walked into his office player closed browser.

    Reiterating could be many reasons why.

    Tomas you made it point to say the system picks up on unfinished registrations... If you have no knowledge of failed or incompleted registrations etc, then why would you even state this. Just another 1 of your statements that seems odd (out of sorts).
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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    CasinoRoom AM

    CasinoRoom AM Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi Richard,

    Starting to feel like a broken record here.

    First Im not ignoring anything.

    A player signed up but didnt fullfill his registration hence why we told him to complete the registration in the email we sent him.

    So eventhough the registration wasnt completed an account was registered and would have been tagged to you if he had used your tracker.

    Again the player result doesnt have an impact at all.

    Sorry but we simply dont work this way. I cant move 7 month old players over to an affiliate just because a player claims he was orginally suppose to sign up via an affiliate, simple as that.

    I have sent you a nice proposal to move forward but you seem to ignore that fact completely @Richard Gibbons.
     
  10.  
    Biti

    Biti Active Member

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    I never promoted them and if I would promote them, I would stop with them. This tracking issue and some months ago they said here they didnt have money to pay out affiliates... It doesn't seem to be the trustable party I am looking for.
     
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  12.  
    CasinoRoom AM

    CasinoRoom AM Affiliate Program Representative

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    hi biti,

    how do you do?

    we have never failed to pay a single affiliate ever and there are no tracking issues.

    we were delayed on payments a few days during a short period of time yes correct.

    /t
     
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    Biti

    Biti Active Member

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    CasinoRoom AM

    CasinoRoom AM Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi Biti,

    There is no tracking issues, feel free to test.

    Yes we been delayed with payments during a period of time yes.

    /Tomas
     
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    GCPortals

    GCPortals Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Hi Tomas,

    I guess we are both starting to feel like broken records. This is party because the information being put up is changing and sometimes not clear. I think that this might put the string to rest if you answer a couple of questions for everyone:
    1)Are you telling me that it is impossible that a technical issue with a sign up could create a tagging issue? We know that there was an issue because I have the e-mails from the player conversing with your support team. 100% there was an issue so the only question is, if it is possible that this could cause a tagging issue?
    2)Do you think that the player is not telling the truth about the issues that he had and fabricated the e-mails from your support team?
    3)We discussed that this player is very experienced player which we both agree on. Do you think that a player like this would make such a mistake? I can tell you that he has been with us for 7 years and he even knows to clear is cookies.
    4)The most important question is, do you feel that it is OK to take advantage of a technical issue in order to not give the affiliate that brought you the person. We know that he is our player. We know that he signs up at Casinos through us. No debate here. He has been with us much longer than the registration date that you mentioned.


    If you can answer these, I feel that this will put this string to rest so we don't have to go around in circles. Simply saying that we don't have tracking issues isn't a good answer. Maybe not normally but when you have technical issues? I can also say that all casinos have tracking issues from time to time. The difference is, most make the situation right instead of focusing on the negative balance of a player as you told me you had done.
     
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    CasinoRoom AM

    CasinoRoom AM Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi Richard,

    Replied to you below.

    “1) Are you telling me that it is impossible that a technical issue with a sign up could create a tagging issue? We know that there was an issue because I have the e-mails from the player conversing with your support team. 100% there was an issue so the only question is, if it is possible that this could cause a tagging issue?”

    No tagging registration issues has been reported, not from Net Refer or inhouse. As one of your affiliates mates mentioned earlier in this thread there could be several reasons why the player didn’t complete the registration or stumbled upon connection issues but fact remains an account was created (although not fulfilled) and was not tagged to an affiliate. Please feel free to share the emails between the player and our CS team claiming he was supposed to sign up via you but couldn’t. I have personally not come across any of that and apologies beforehand if that’s the case.

    “2) Do you think that the player is not telling the truth about the issues that he had and fabricated the e-mails from your support team?”

    No and I’m pretty certain that his intention was to sign up via you originally because 1) his partner (also an experienced cashback player) is, as you know, already tagged to you and 2) I fully rely on your word. This is the reason why I’ve sent you and your partner a proposal to move forward.

    “3)We discussed that this player is very experienced player which we both agree on. Do you think that a player like this would make such a mistake? I can tell you that he has been with us for 7 years and he even knows to clear is cookies.”

    He might be a very experienced player but evidentially he failed to sign up through your tracker. Not that it matters or should be a reason but being so experienced with earning cash back via you for 7 or so years one would assume he would have double checked with you that the account was 100% tracked prior to his first deposit? Specially since he did have issues completing his registration, right? This is just my experience dealing with rakeback in poker back the days. It would also maybe be good if you guys added verification on all depositing players not only losing players which would avoid issues like this. Tagging a player which been active with us for seven months is sensitive and not something we can do.

    “4 )The most important question is, do you feel that it is OK to take advantage of a technical issue in order to not give the affiliate that brought you the person. We know that he is our player. We know that he signs up at Casinos through us. No debate here. He has been with us much longer than the registration date that you mentioned.”


    Have you looked at the proposal I sent you? Reading the above it certainly doesn’t seem that way.
    What exactly am I taking advantage of here? We are in minus here and this player won’t become active again unless he is tagged to you so there are no future advantages for us at all here. If you referring to the potential commission we are “saving” for his loss month in January you know its not a lot.

    “I can also say that all casinos have tracking issues from time to time. The difference is, most make the situation right instead of focusing on the negative balance of a player as you told me you had done.”

    You are saying we have tracking issues which we don’t have and again the player performance doesn’t have an impact here but yes, we are minus and that’s just me looking at the overall net deposits in this case. All other costs that applies would obviously make the minus gap higher especially considering the deposit pattern on this player.

    To be perfectly honest, our brand are not big fans of affiliates handling cash back on their behalf we rather handle the CRM in-house if that make sense. Not saying anything is wrong here at all its just our decision as a brand. Several weeks ago, I requested from your colleague to remove us from the cash back section (for new acquired players) and I believe its in place already.

    Richard, I’m sorry but I can’t justify your claim other than the proposal Ive sent you. Knowing you know this player very well I’m sure you can get him live on another casino and I wish you good luck on that.

    I hope we can still work together (on the non-cash back areas) and I would be more than happy to revisit your deal and potentially buy some banner exposure etc.

    Thanks, T
     
  19.  
    GCPortals

    GCPortals Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    HI Tomas,

    Technical issues can either happen on your server which you could track or with the player. If it is with the player then it will not necessarily be logged or tracked on your end. If I get you the e-mail from the player saying that he had an issue, are you willing to change your position on the unpaid commission? If the answer is no, then there isn't much point in my asking the member if I can do this.

    The fact that you agree with the intent of the player, the player is telling the truth and that I am telling the truth should be enough to tag the player and pay the commission. Fixing the tagging after the fact is only half a solution.

    I will have to look into the registration tracking. This is a good point and this is something that I will look into in more detail. Thank you for that point. I am not sure of all the logistics behind this.

    The reason that I said that the performance of the player came into play here is because this is what you told me via skype and via e-mail. They are at a net negative with you, you invested money with the player and can't justify also paying commission on them. Maybe I misunderstood you but the series of comments seemed to imply that this was the reason.
    You were aware of the CB prior. We don't hide it. Most people that opt out of this don't understand it or don't like the tracking capabilities it provides. If you remember, during our skype I asked you if you wanted out. You said no and then you changed your position a while later. As soon as you told us, we took you out

    I have seen one proposal that you may think is a solution from your end because it solves your problem of not having to pay us but from our perspective and the players perspective it is not ideal. I doubt they will want to play at your casino because they don't trust that guys will do the right thing if they have an issue and you will take the position that suites you best vs what could of been a win for all parties. I can't totally blame them and I have to admit that I have concerns. Most players that win eventually lose and this player could of easily turned to a positive as he did over a few months. Instead they don't want to play at your casino.

    I agree, enough said on this. We will have to agree to disagree about what the right thing to do is.
     
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