Elmount Gaming Gaming Tagging Issue

[GCPortals]

I recently had an issue where a player followed our link and tried to registered at the casino. They got an error and the customer report contacted them saying there was a problem with their link and to use one that they sent instead. The player did and after a bunch of play we figured out they weren't tagged to us. After providing their senior management the e-mails they decided not to pay the commission and ignore the e-mails showing the interaction and the issues. The intent was for this player to be tagged to us. They are an experiences player who knows the importance of being linked properly. The reason they gave for not paying the commission was that over the life of the player they were down money. They ignored the facts (e-mails) and decided to not to do the right thing. Disappointing! Was this a strategy or an accident? I guess we will never truly know. I wonder how many of these never get caught. I think lots

 

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[IhreConsulting]

Hi Richard
I have just sent Tomas @ Ellmount an email about this thread and he should update tomorrow on this.
I hope this will help resolve the issue.
Thanks
Claire

 

[CasinoRoom AM]

hi,

i replied to margaret directly a few days ago waiting to hear back on that i think ur ccd right richard?

player signed up and although he didnt complete his registration in full an account was created but not tagged to an aff.

a system we use picked up on this "uncomplete" registration and notified the player to add his additional details.

player started playing (still not tagged to an affiliate) and win every month for a while then lose some back then go to you and ask for rewards or something.

cant do anything at all with this account richard.

you obviously know this player very well richard and we dont really allow these type of set ups, ie affiliates paying back to players but thats a seperate discussion.

check with maragaret and the last email i sent

best regards,
tomas

 

[AussieDave]

@IhreConsulting - Normally I wouldn't comment here BUT given I was heavily SPAMMED by you people for literally months on end, well thought I'd take this opportunity to say so. Granted that spam has stopped now. However it was a PITA to stop, and worse, I didn't ask for it to begin with... Hence my trust level with anyone your company is associated with or to, is on a low-side of iffy at best!

 

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[Shay]

hi,

i replied to margaret directly a few days ago waiting to hear back on that i think ur ccd right richard?

player signed up and although he didnt complete his registration in full an account was created but not tagged to an aff.

a system we use picked up on this "uncomplete" registration and notified the player to add his additional details.

player started playing (still not tagged to an affiliate) and win every month for a while then lose some back then go to you and ask for rewards or something.

cant do anything at all with this account richard.

you obviously know this player very well richard and we dont really allow these type of set ups, ie affiliates paying back to players but thats a seperate discussion.

check with maragaret and the last email i sent

best regards,
tomas

This does not explain why the player had registration issues in the first place.

 

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[CasinoRoom AM]

Hey Shay,
How do you mean? I guess player only went through 1/3 steps or something before registration was disrupted for whatever reason I have no clue.
Cheers, Tomas

 

[Shay]

Hey Shay,
How do you mean? I guess player only went through 1/3 steps or something before registration was disrupted for whatever reason I have no clue.
Cheers, Tomas

"They got an error" followed by the casino's support offering a different link is what I mean.

The way this is being addressed worries me, as we have your brand on two of our sites. Based on what I've read so far, my plan is to revisit whether or not they should be there.

 

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[CasinoRoom AM]

Hi Shay,
Im puzzling around with what can possibly be the problem with us having a system that picks up on unfinished registrations. If I was an affiliate and sent player to a casino that had that feature I would be happy.
/Tomas

 

[CasinoRoom AM]

@Shay - also thx for promoting our brand. If there is anything you'll ever need let me know.

 

[AussieDave]

"They got an error" followed by the casino's support offering a different link is what I mean.

Im puzzling around with what can possibly be the problem with us having a system that picks up on unfinished registrations.

guess player only went through 1/3 steps or something before registration was disrupted for whatever reason I have no clue.

Hi Tomas,

You reply seems odd. Let me explain...

If your system picks up on unfinished registrations, and the casino support gave this player another link to use to signup & or complete the registration, then why is it you have "no clue" to what transpired with this "error"? Surely the system that is intelligent enough to pick up "unfinished registrations", would also log these registration issues. It must or the casino support would not have given the player a "different link" to register a fresh player account. Thus the aff link is dropped.

As far as the affiliate knowing this person, it's not uncommon for a webmaster/affiliate to have contact with players. EG - It happens ALL this time on player forums. (I've experience this 1'st hand, with players posting saying, "hey I've just signed up at X casino, and dropped $100"). Other times, players may make contact with an affiliate, if they are having hassles with a casino etc.

So again, I'm rather confused by your statement in that matter too.

Simply examining the facts posted, and don't think 2+2=4... just sayin


Edit:
Returning to the OP's affiliate tag issue, and the accustation that this affiliate is a friend of the player... Let me reiterate, players contact affiliates. It happens all the time. And through this contact (of player and affiliate), the player stated what they'd deposited etc. Now it's not too hard to check the aff program stats, and then cross reference the deposits etc. One doesn't need to be a friend of a player for this to happen. All the affiliate needs are figures and signup date from the player.

In this case the date, cause the player wasn't tagged to the OP as they should have been, cause casino support gave the referred player another link to signup under. Hence, the referred player wasn't tagged to the referring affiliate as they should have been!

Seems to me, a lot of quasi excuses are being made here as facts to why the player wasn't tagged to the OP (affiliate). While statements such as "I guess" and "I have no clue" are peppered in amongst these so-called-facts. The two don't belong together...

With regard to the accusation of collusion/connection, it states in your T&C's:

“Player(s)” means a person who has opened a Player Account at the Website(s) via a Tracker and/or Promo Code assigned to the Affiliate, excluding, without limitation, a person being a family member (regardless of closeness) of the Affiliate or within the household of the Affiliate.

Elmount Gaming is and has accused the affiliate of holding a "friendship" with this player. It's not the affiliate who has to prove his/her inocents, but for Elmount Gaming to provide undeniable 'proof' that both parties are related... Do you have this proof? I don't think you do. I'm leaning toward the side of there is no hard-factual-proof. Instead, the OP has be deemed guiltly, merely on assumptions.

 

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[CasinoRoom AM]

Hey Dave,

Let me underline that a player account was created here and if the player had used the correct affiliate link it would have been 100% tagged.

In this case, the player simply had to add some more details before the account registration was fulfilled hence why he received an email from us.

See attached mailer that we sent out to the player in his/ her local language. In English, it translates into:

“Is there anything where we can help you?
We noticed that you had problems registering with the Casino Room. It is very unpleasant, because we would definitely like you to join! To complete the registration, click the button below.”

We´ve been doing this since 2005 and you do not have to be concerned that we have a system in place that would remove affiliate tracking!

Point of the matter is that we can’t tag a player to an affiliate 6 months later just because he/she claims he originally signed up via an affiliate hope that’s understandable.

Also, this specific affiliate usually ask me to verify that 1) the player is 100% tagged correctly whenever they have sent a new depositing player and 2) that the deposit matches from what the player claims. That never happened in this occasion.

That being said we do have a long relationship with this affiliate and I do know that they are 100% professional and lovely to work with but unfortunately this situation is a bit tricky to solve.

I have sent a proposal to the affiliate and hopefully that can allow us to move forward.

/T

 

[GCPortals]

HI Tomas. Thanks for the post and explanation. There isn't much changed from our discussion or any new information but there are a few things missing or needing clarification. Your posts do however reinforce how differently we view this situation and, why we didn't come to a resolution where all parties feel good about.

1)We know a 100% that the experienced player intended to be tagged to us. They confirmed this. We know 100% that the player tried to register through us but had issues when doing it. We know that your technical support sent a link to the player to assist in the registration. The fact that you think that taking a player where all intentions were clear is fine is obviously where we don't agree. All the intentions were there and clear and to capitalize on a technical issues isn't right in my opinion and I feel most logical people would agree regardless of your opinion on this.

2)The player didn't generate any revenue for several months and this is why we didn't catch him missing from our stats. Again, this isn't the case of us finding a player months later and wanting him tagged to us. No revenue for him was why it took a few months for us to uncover the issue. If you remember, you indicated that your decision to pay us our commission was based on the fact that the player had won for several months and that because of this you hadn't made any money regardless of his more recent losses where we caught the problem. Again, I think focusing on your financial position on the player is a mistake and not a reason to justify ignoring the mistakes.

We brought you a player. He registered. He had issues with the registration. He got registered and not tagged to us accidentally. He won money and then lost money. We were not paid on the revenue because you at retagged him to yourselves and also quoting your discussion with me, your net position wasn't up and you had invested promo money with him.


I always try to find a positive in things regardless of not agreeing on the definition is right based on the obvious facts. I do however appreciate the fact that you have been very responsive to discussions and communicating. I think this is a good thing and thank you for that.

 

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[CasinoRoom AM]

Hey Richard,

Sorry for late reply.

As mentioned already several times by now an account was created (in August 2016) by the player which was not tagged to an affiliate. The email the player received from us was just to inform him that he had some additional information to fill in before the account was good to go.

“The fact that you think that taking a player where all intentions were clear”- What kind of “clear” intentions was we supposed to know about back then? We had not been given any instructions from you nor the player.

It was first 7 – 8 months later in Feb/March 2017 you brought this to my attention and naturally there is nothing I can do about it.

The result we have on the player is minus yes but that doesn’t really effect anything in the end.

I have sent you and your colleague an email with a proposal how we can move forward instead of backwards. As far as claiming we are un-tagging players from affiliates you are very far off.

Thanks, Tomas

 

[GCPortals]

Thomas,

The interesting thing is that we aren't disputing the facts. We are disputing what the right thing to do is.

1)Yes, the player followed our link. He was not tagged to us because of a technical issue. Agreed.

2)We did not know about it because we didn't have any revenue. This is why we didn't bring it up with you until sometime later. We have had 1 other Casinos that use your same program with the same issue and they were able to tag them to us because they felt it was the right thing to do. I can post instructions for you if you want and this is the only issue. You do have an ability to do something but as you explained to me, you can't because your net revenue on this player for the entire time is negative and you spent money on him. This is is regardless of the fact that we would of gotten some revenue from this player over the last few months.

3)You feel that it is fine for you to take advantage of a player and registration that we brought you because there was an issue with it. This is where we don't agree and I feel that most logical people would agree that it is taking advantage of a technical issue with the registration as the player has confirmed. You were very upfront that your decision was base on the negative bottom line. I still feel that focusing here isn't the right place to focus when trying to decide on the best way to deal with this type of issue.

4)I have not claimed that you are retaging players. Read what I said again and you will see that I posed a question. A question is not a claim. Everyone can read your posts and my posts and they are free to make their analysis and conclusions on their own. The facts and responses speak for themselves.

Thanks,

Richard

 

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[AussieDave]

@CasinoRoom AM - If I was promoting your casinos, I'd be more than a little concerned about how often these referred signup errors are taking place. If the OP hadn't picked this up (time frame is a moot point) Richard would be none the wiser.

I don't know how your tracking system functions, but lets say it's cookie based. Why wasn't Richard's tracker picked up by the alternative signup link given to the player by the support rep? I can only see two possible scenarios here.

1. Player was instructed to clear their cookies/cache.
2. Signup link supplied by support, was a straight link (not able to track aff id's).

IMHO the only way to resolve the OP issue, is to retag the player to Richard. To say this can't be done, seems iffy at best. I mean, plenty of casinos change hands these days, and subsequently players are mapped over from Aff-Program-A, to Aff-Program-B, all the time. So why this player can't be mapped back to Richard (the referring affiliate of this player), seems to defy all logic.

 

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