Is Rival 21 Grand Casino Going Rogue?

[Pinababy69]

With all due respect Andy (I'm not singling you out just using your statement) but these white labels and Rival for that matter have thrived because people (that's players and affiliates) keep putting up with their BS!

Seriously these payment issues are not a new thing, they've been ongoing and increasing across the white label brands for ages. It's like a damn cancer.

Rival and their licensees keep snubbing their noses at players and affiliates because they can. No one follows through with their threats to yank them and; players keep depositing.

It's pretty obvious where I'm sitting that the time for trying to help Rival is long gone.
Their arrogance and refusal to take action against their white labels shows they don't give a toss.

JMO but Rival have been playing everyone for suckers



Cheers



Dave

Glad you said all that Dave, so now I don't have to, lol. I've been railing against Rival for years now. And you're right, all these payment delays and "processing issues" (which are highly suspect IMO) have been going on periodically for years as well. I believe the biggest processing issue is lack of funds in the processor's account. Hard to process what you don't have.

I'm not going to start making a list, but think of all the casinos who have been around for 5 years or 10 years and who have NEVER ONCE had payment delays of this type, nor ever claimed processing issues. Even Slotocash, which is another Rival casino...I don't ever remember anyone posting that they had waited weeks for payments. Numerous MG's, a few RTG's, other softwares as well. Not one "en masse" complaint of extended waiting periods to pay people. I truly believe "processor issues" is an excuse these joints pull out when the funds run low and they are waiting on more deposits. The low maximum weekly and monthly cashouts are a dead giveaway to me....when you compare places that claim "processor issues" with places that never have. Good chance the places that have never rolled out that excuse for late payments, also have either NO max cashout limits, or at least a very high limit.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

I truly believe "processor issues" is an excuse these joints pull out when the funds run low and they are waiting on more deposits. The low maximum weekly and monthly cashouts are a dead giveaway to me....

The independently owned Rival powered casinos including SlotoCash and; Black Diamond and; Box24 and; Spartan Slots are the ONLY casinos IMO players and affiliates can trust.

Due diligence on the part of Rival to veto white label licensees is obviously non existent. Take Dendera for example. The casino manager (loose term) had never been a manager before, much less, had any experience in the gaming industry.

These Ma and Pa casino white label operations could well be run from an internet cafe, for all we know. Remember player support, processing etc etc are run through Rival/Bonne Chance.

these joints

That's about all they are, with some being a bee's d#ck away from clip joints, IMHO.

Edit: And for the record, IF Rival was sincere in every getting these issues sorted out and TRYING to do the right thing for players and affiliates, they'd make damn sure someone with some clout was here, at CM's, at the GPWA and at all the other forums listen to players and affiliates.

Instead all we get are more excuses, quasi justifications and more broken promises.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it usually means it is a duck!


Cheers



Dave

 

[Guard Dog]

Painting with the broad brush again I see...

First of all, there are good white labels too. Superior does a good job.

And *I have* pulled all Rivals before, so unless you troll my websites and know my promotional philosophies Are you really shouldn't criticize them.

Anyway it is too hard to type on a phone so I will return to this topic tomorrow

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

One thing for sure; My 12 day old cashin at 21Grand Casino will test Rival's commitment to their players and their previous statements made here on this forum where they have stated that all players will get paid regardless of the white-label.

So this will be a good litmus test for them.


litmus test
n
2. a critical indication of future success or failure
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[Aussie-Dave]

this will be a good litmus test for them.


litmus test
n
2. a critical indication of future success or failure
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You certainly hope they don't stuff it up.

Without rattling anyone's chain if this was just a player who did not have access to contacts...well you can fill in the rest.

That's where everything goes down hill.

Affiliates who promote xyz program(s) successfully, generally have direct contact with the upper echelon of these programs. Your average player generally is not a VIP so that avenue of contact and getting something done is not available either.

What concerns me and what's always seems to be overlooked are the players who do not frequent forums. What about them? Are they getting paid, not likely.

There are a whole lot of people NOT being paid. JMO but shouldn't that be a major concern for affiliates? That a lot of players are not being paid but still Rival white labels are accepting deposits...


Cheers



Dave

 

[Subtle]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I have been away for the past 4 days.

I need to get more information from the operator and our Rival support team. As I said before, all players who meet the terms and conditions as posted by our operators WILL get paid.

I'll advise once I have more information. There is a lot of back and forth that occurs when Rival as the software provider has to review these issues. Lots of red tape.

GamblingGuru, with all due respect, please have some patience.

Best regards,

Rival Rep

I hope Rival Rep can be held to his/her word.
21Grand owe me 3k and haven't been in a hurry to pay me so far. It has been a couple of weeks now.

 

[KasinoKing]

I hope Rival Rep can be held to his/her word.
21Grand owe me 3k and haven't been in a hurry to pay me so far. It has been a couple of weeks now.

Can you give us some more details about this please?
Also, what have you done to try to resolve the issue?
There my be people who can help you - if not here, then I'm sure we can point you in the right direction.

As far as I know I have never signed up under my own affiliate tag...

Well that would be very quick & easy for you to check regarding any Rival casino - have you looked to see if you are tagged to your own 21 Grand affy account?

KK

 

[Subtle]

Can you give us some more details about this please?
Also, what have you done to try to resolve the issue?
There my be people who can help you - if not here, then I'm sure we can point you in the right direction.

Yeah, no problem.

A couple of weeks ago I asked for a withdrawal; I've been betting 25-100€a hand (raising when I'm winning and tightening when I'm losing) throughout, and won about 3k. I've sent my docs to support. I asked for 2 withdrawals so far, as the weekly withdrawal amount is capped.

So far I've been trying to get any meaningful response from live chat about it. No dice, and they get extremely slow in responding. They've once "sent a mail" to a finance dpt.
I have today msgd their Casinomeister's rep about the situation.
I'll update as it develops.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Well that would be very quick & easy for you to check regarding any Rival casino - have you looked to see if you are tagged to your own 21 Grand affy account?

KK

Of course my brother, NOT TAGGED..

I did get this email back from David Bernstein last nite in response to my last email posted above....


"
Rob

we actually do know every single affiliate that has a player account at 21 grand

you will get your money for your player account asap

have a nice day

--

David Bernstein
Affiliate Director
"

So according to David, I should have my cashin asap but that's still not the case as I've still not been paid as of now on DAY 13.

Anyway, they only owe me approx. $700 and this is certainly not about the money first but for me more about some of these white-labels being way underfunded and stalling payments to players and keeping their withdrawals reversible for 4 or 5 days.

That's what Rival needs to do a better job on as far as vetting these white-label casinos. Rival should do a monthly audit on every white-label until there is a long track record of timely payments to their customers.

Like Andy said, there are a couple of exceptions to the white-label list that do try to fly upright and straight.
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[TheGamblingGuru]

You certainly hope they don't stuff it up.

Without rattling anyone's chain if this was just a player who did not have access to contacts...well you can fill in the rest.

That's where everything goes down hill.

Affiliates who promote xyz program(s) successfully, generally have direct contact with the upper echelon of these programs. Your average player generally is not a VIP so that avenue of contact and getting something done is not available either.

Yep, you're absolutely correct David.

What concerns me and what's always seems to be overlooked are the players who do not frequent forums. What about them? Are they getting paid, not likely.

No one will truly ever know the clear answer to that question. But as long as we keep bringing these issues up for public scrutiny then at least a few of us affiliates are trying to help those players.

There are a whole lot of people NOT being paid. JMO but shouldn't that be a major concern for affiliates? That a lot of players are not being paid but still Rival white labels are accepting deposits...


Cheers



Dave

That is one of my main concerns, hence the reason I am one of the first ones to always post about these issues and try to put pressure on the powers that be to do the right thing or else suffer the consequences in the serps.
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[TheGamblingGuru]

These 21Grand/BestPay Partner issues are looking more and more troublesome...

Just noticed that Max over at CM just posted this in reply to the 21Grand Rep (Claire) in the 21Grand thread there...

"While we're at it please note that there are three PABs against Supreme Play that need attention too. These have all been submitted yet I haven't received a single meaningful response. We need action on those ASAP."

Bonus Complaint 21Grand Casino "Bonus Abuse" - Page 4 - Casinomeister's Online Casino and Poker Forum

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[Aussie-Dave]

Hi Rob,

You know I'm not blowing smoke up your a$$ because we go back a ways. For as long as I've know you, you've always placed principles before profit and followed these ethics through and through.

Given your Rival connections (IMHO) if anyone can get them to see the light, you can.

However if after bending over backwards and Rival again wont keep (their) words and put these into action, I don't see any point continuing, do you?

The old saying "cruel to be kind" - kicking Rival to curb may see them stand up, listen and take notice to get their collective $hit together.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Aussie-Dave]

won about 3k. I've sent my docs to support. I asked for 2 withdrawals so far, as the weekly withdrawal amount is capped.

This guy is betting between 25 - 100 Euro and he can't withdraw a pissy $3K in one go

Sorry guys but that's got clip joint all over it.

If a casino is accepting these bet sizes and can NOT pay $3K, they should not be in the casino business.
Rival needs to stand up, take responsibility and get this mess sorted.



Cheers



Dave

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Hi Rob,

You know I'm not blowing smoke up your a$$ because we go back a ways. For as long as I've know you, you've always placed principles before profit and followed these ethics through and through.

Given your Rival connections (IMHO) if anyone can get them to see the light, you can.

However if after bending over backwards and Rival again wont keep (their) words and put these into action, I don't see any point continuing, do you?

The old saying "cruel to be kind" - kicking Rival to curb may see them stand up, listen and take notice to get their collective $hit together.


Cheers



Dave

Thanks Dave and the answer is NO, I totally agree with you.
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[Aussie-Dave]

Hi all,

I think I can safely say that Rival has some damn nice slots. They certainly make a pleasant change from what's out there. And they sure were delivering a nice package (from a players perspective) when compared against other platforms.

It's been said, if Rival got their collective $hit together they could possibly rival (no pun intended) some of the major casino brands. However the thorn in their side has become their Achilles heel. Growing too fast, issuing too many licensees with casinos, who were too ill equipped to manage, let alone run casinos successfully.

All this adds up to bad player experiences.

Really it's not a hard picture to paint how to run a successful casino:

• Provide fair and ethical T&C's, Bonus Terms and Casino Rules.
• Pay players in an industry accepted time frame.
• Make sure all CSR's are up to date on bonuses, cash-out protocols and general casino operations.
• Makes sure the left hand is in constant connection with the right hand - EG everyone knows what's going on.
• Don't make players jump through hoops.
• Treat every player as if they are a VIP.
• Listen to player concerns and always look at ways to improve their gaming experience.
• Be honest sincere and ethical.
• Never tell people what you think they want to hear - just tell them the truth.

Run a casino on these foundations and you'll earn the respect of players and IMHO the entire gambit of the gaming industry will respect you. In addition you'll have a successful brand of casinos.


Cheers



Dave

 

[SuperiorShare]

Hi Guys,

I think its not so hard to decide which Rival white labels or not you should promote. It's not hard to see clear who makes a good job and who doesn't. Also, who is reponsive to their partners and players and who's not.

Make simple and smart decisions. Promote the brands that show solid support to you and VIP treatment to your players, who provides pro active marketing, make a little research, inquire who is the affiliate manager (if its a real reachable person first off) find out if you get answers to your questions and rely on people you can always find online to discuss anything you need.

I hope not to eat my words, but I truly think we are the best white label among Rival network. (This is my personal opinion from what I see and I am quite demanding) If I would see another whitelabel doing better job than us, I swear I would say it here but I don't think so and I don't want to argue about it. You have your choices, I have mine. I could also say Affiliate Wide makes a great job, who doesn't know that? Lets just get real and save us all time by choosing the right programs to work with and casinos to play at.

I can proudly say we make an excellent job to provide affiliates with fresh marketing tools and promos, and we have the best VIP Host and Casino Manager I have ever worked with in my life (I've been in the industry for over 6 years now) and I proudly say it. He is amazing and a real gentlemen with our customers.

Now I feel I am throwing flowers to us (Also a nice one to AW), but well, what can I say, this industry is all about trust and working with real partners. Don't waste your time with programs you don't really trust and that don't show the professionalism you deserve for your work.

We work hard and show proves and facts of what we do. I believe that's the only thing that matters. You won't find me posting at the forum all the time but I am always here whenever I need to be here. Many of you know me from many years. Words comes and goes, but facts remain in time and there is where I/We stand.

Hope this helps and regarding the issues related to Rival itself, I ask you to talk to me directly for better communication.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Hi Guys,

I think its not so hard to decide which Rival white labels or not you should promote. It's not hard to see clear who makes a good job and who doesn't. Also, who is reponsive to their partners and players and who's not.

Make simple and smart decisions. Promote the brands that show solid support to you and VIP treatment to your players, who provides pro active marketing, make a little research, inquire who is the affiliate manager (if its a real reachable person first off) find out if you get answers to your questions and rely on people you can always find online to discuss anything you need.

I hope not to eat my words, but I truly think we are the best white label among Rival network. (This is my personal opinion from what I see and I am quite demanding) If I would see another whitelabel doing better job than us, I swear I would say it here but I don't think so and I don't want to argue about it. You have your choices, I have mine. I could also say Affiliate Wide makes a great job, who doesn't know that? Lets just get real and save us all time by choosing the right programs to work with and casinos to play at.

I can proudly say we make an excellent job to provide affiliates with fresh marketing tools and promos, and we have the best VIP Host and Casino Manager I have ever worked with in my life (I've been in the industry for over 6 years now) and I proudly say it. He is amazing and a real gentlemen with our customers.

Now I feel I am throwing flowers to us (Also a nice one to AW), but well, what can I say, this industry is all about trust and working with real partners. Don't waste your time with programs you don't really trust and that don't show the professionalism you deserve for your work.

We work hard and show proves and facts of what we do. I believe that's the only thing that matters. You won't find me posting at the forum all the time but I am always here whenever I need to be here. Many of you know me from many years. Words comes and goes, but facts remain in time and there is where I/We stand.

Hope this helps and regarding the issues related to Rival itself, I ask you to talk to me directly for better communication.

Paul, you're a class act buddy and both you and the guys behind your casino are as well. If some of the other white-label Rival's would take a page from Superior Casino's book then we would need no threads like this one about a Rival white-label casino gone bad! 8)

Also, thanks for having the class to post in this thread Paul.
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[TheGamblingGuru]

Another good example of Class Act Rival Casino property is the new SpartanSlots Casino by AffiliateWide.

I made a cashout there yesterday and didn't have to send in docs because I had already been approved at Box24. The cashout was in my eWallet account today and it was not no small amount either! The cashout was in the 1000's range...KUDOS to SpartanSlots.

Now back to the Rogue 21Grand Casino issue, Today makes DAY 14 still waiting on a $700 cashin and it's not looking any better there according to the latest post in the 21 Grand Casino thread at Casinomeister...

The latest poster (HeyMikey) claims he/she has been waiting since Sep.14th for their cashout to be processed....

So this brings up the question that has never been answered by Rival Rep, how long will Rival let these threads and posts go on before they step in and put an end to the Brand Damage being done by these cowboys?

Or is it too little, too late?

Even the Non-White-Labels will ultimately suffer collateral damage by this as well, if "Rival Corporate" do not step up to the plate real soon...or maybe that point has even already been passed?

Come on Rival Rep...it looks like you have disappeared again...one post a week ain't getting it buddy!
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[Guard Dog]

Come on Rival Rep...it looks like you have disappeared again...one post a week ain't getting it buddy!
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We were promised by you (RivalRep) that you would take care and make sure that players were being paid. What is going on here?

You are not only hurting the Rival Brand, but seriously hurting your licensees!!! No wonder players very rarely deposit large amounts into Rival Casinos - they are afraid that money will go missing

 

[Aussie-Dave]

We were promised by you (RivalRep)

Sorry guys but it's like being promised by the little green giant.

• Is this poster a rep for Rival? - How do we know?
• Where is the transparency? (it establishes trust)
• No Real Name just a nick.

Paul from Superior can use his real name, so too can other affiliate managers. Whilst the upper management of 32RED display their pictures and; full names and; email addy's on site.

Why the mystery for Rival?
Because IMO it's very easy to make empty promises on a Username. No real name = Zero accountability.

Edit: Every time things get out of hand here we're reminded that this is supposed to be professional forum. If that is the case, then shouldn't it be mandatory for software providers and affiliate managers to use their real names.

This hiding behind fake names is IMO a thing of the past.

If the industry is sincere about transparency then it needs to start acting like it!



Cheers



Dave (aka Dave Mikkelsen)