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Discussion in 'Fortune Affiliates' started by Vegasguy, Sep 7, 2010.
That's the way I would set it up too if I didn't want to offer cross-marketing..
Thanks Greedygirl. You and Dom always have a lot of info about the goings on in this industry, and post so clearly. I enjoy reading both of your posts very much.
First, sorry about my late response but I have a daytime job and had no chance to spent some time online the last two days.
Thanks everyone for their input.
I definitly believe that player issues should be from interest to affiliates too.
That is the main part of my problem, they did not mention any reasons beside "certain discrepances". If you like, I can post the communication that took place.
Only my royal vegas account has been unlocked, in fact vegas palms, 7sultans, platinum play and europalace remain locked. Still no explanation why.
So do I!
What URL did you pull that info from GG?
I ask because I've found divergent information.
But as Daera suggested, I'll wait till Anthony returns to explain his side things first.
You may have divergent info, but I'm betting on Nitesh on this:
This comes DIRECT from Nitesh, head of marketing for FL. For my money, that's good enough for me.
I should mention that the bit I just posted was included in an email--dated March 10, 2010. Because I did not want to mis-speak on this, I confirmed with Nitesh that this is still accurate (I spoke with him before I posted to the issue, this morning).
Of course I encourage anyone to confirm this on their own with Anthony, Nitesh or whoever their best contact with FL or Wingate may be.
I know Nitesh as well as others at FL too.
Maybe you've overlooked it but a number of affiliates in this thread who promote FL properties, including myself, are oblivious to the fact that Europalace was connected to FL.
That in itself should indicate that there maybe others that are not aware of the connection either - And or to the exact, factual nature of that alliance/business relationship.
It's also been said Wingateaffiliates and Fortune Affiliates program, if not identical, they are very similar.
Anthony kinda of addressed the OP's post but side stepped the Wingateaffiliates/Europalace questions, why. It's not like only one person was asking these direct questions, hey!
With all due respect greedygirl, I'm kinda at loss to understand why you phoned Nitesh. I thought you were in the affiliate management business these days?
Or have you got involved here to try and give credence to FL because of who you are...
What money? Unless your an affiliate of FL, how does this affect your bottom line exactly!
However I am an affiliate who has not only promoted the FL brand exclusively for many years but has invested untold hours into marketing the FL brand, there are others who have follow the same path too.
All I'm trying to do is get to the TRUTH.
As much as I believe it warrants getting straight answers from FL, I don't think it does anyone any good taking everything said as Gospel.
Seriously, its in parallel to the Senate asking Bill Clinton; who I believe was on oath, if he has Sexual Relationships with Monica Lewinsky..."No I did not" (I believe was his reply)...Which btw was later found out to be untrue.
Dave, are you familiair with how white labels work?
While the many everyday operations may be managed by the company issuing the white label, the marketing is usually handled by the white label licencee. However, different white label issuers may enter into various forms of division of responsibilities. It can be custom tailored.
This licencee could perhaps have chosen to pay for inclusion in the fortune affiliate program, but s/he chose to open a seperate program.
Casino support was provided by the same team that handles fortune lounge support. Common occurrence nowadays, a smart, money saving way to provide better quality support.
Good casino support requires a bunch of training, all too often casino support is really crappy because of lack of proper training. It makes good sense for casinos to share support - and it is better for players since the staff is more likely to be useful to players.
I don't recall the exact properties now, but I have come across some strange bedfellows sharing support for these reasons over the years.
If I had a casino, I would most certainly prefer sharing support to trying to create an efficient support system myself.
Yes Dom I am.
Granted a little ways before you time but in 2000 - 2002 I owned 3 white labels. Later when you were around I and ran VegasHeatCasino.com in 2003 - 2004.
I got to be honest here even if others can't be or wont be.
I'm at a loss to why, when someone brings something like this to the forefront, people with apparent industry connections/alliances to the party being held accountable, either throw up blinkers or try to discredit the messenger.
Again, I'm sorry if my questions make people uncomfortable. However, I'm not the only one who is suspect of the TRUTHFUL relationship between FL; EuroPalace Casino and WinGateAffiliates.com
I just signed up over at WinGateAffiliates to see with my OWN 2 EYES if in FACT the affiliate console is similar to that of FortuneAffiliates.
The damn thing is identical and uses the same programming and functionality, including the same file names...ect...ect
For posterity I've taken screen caps of comparison and also saved coding for identical comparison.
Those who think they know the FACTS are IMHO having their pockets pissed into and played for fools.
I'll stand my guns and say...it's my belief based on proof, that there is more to this EuroPalace WinGateAffiliate relationship/ownership than FL has let on.
I was around in 2001, but I didn't know that.
But I do think white labels in that era were nothing like they are today.
However, since I have zero personal experience with white labels, neither the ones that floated around back in the day nor the ones that are nowadays issued by major companies, I will not comment any further on the many ways the relationship between Fortune and it's white label licencee could be structured.
I'm not sure why you're attacking Dom or me.
I understand this and it's why I even bothered to post anything about it. Perhaps you misunderstood or read more into what I was saying when I said 'Not sure why people are thinking this is something underhanded--FL has always been upfront regarding Wingate and Europalace'?
It's not uncommon for white-labels to create programs, terms and other bits based off the parent label.
I'll break this into two parts: First, did I say I phoned Nitesh? No, I didn't. I said 'I spoke with Nitesh.' Not that it should matter, it just happened that Nitesh contacted me regarding other business we have. While we were chatting, I happened to mention this. Which brings me to the second part: No--I'm not on the aff management side. I've come back to the publishing side of things. I've been the Senior Account Manager for Casino City for just about a year now. Again, not that this should even matter to the discussion.
Well, it DOES affect my by bottom line, because if I don't perform well for Casino City, I don't have a job.
Which is why I stated the following:
Who's trying to do this?
For my own part in this, I stated the facts as I know them. When I said, 'This comes DIRECT from Nitesh, head of marketing for FL. For my money, that's good enough for me,' it's because it's how I feel. If you feel otherwise, that's fine. Everyone has a mind of their own--I was simply stating mine.
Cutting to the chase, I was doing my best to impart information. I'm always careful to be as accurate as possible with the facts I have at hand. Further, I've always known Dom to act similarly. I just don't understand the attacks on either of us and I feel the attacks are wholly undeserved.
Well, unless someone has noticed some cross-marketing issues, I am not sure I understand why it matters what sort of contract Fortune may or may not have with a white label licencee.
I kind of think this thread is off the original topic entirely - wasn't it about someone having their player accounts at Fortune casinos closed?
Seems we need to break this down further. Semantics, hey!
Spoke | Define Spoke at Dictionary.com
1.a pt. of speak.
2.Nonstandard . a pp. of speak.
3.Archaic , a pp. of speak.
to utter words or articulate sounds with the ordinary voice; talk: He was too ill to speak.
2.to communicate vocally; mention: to speak to a person of various matters.
Sorry if I take things literally. I just kinda expect if someone tells me they've "Spoke" to Nitesh, I take that as they had a verbal conversation with the person.
If you think or believe I'm attacking either of you, I'm not.
Like you I am in most parts, merely expressing my opinion.
However I'm also responding to statements. One of which was posted by you that said:
Do you have an FA account?
Do you have a WingateAffiliates Account?
I doubt you do, but if you do, (or for that matter any one else) go log-in to both programs. Come back here and try to keep a straight face whilst telling the forum that these two programs are not identical in functionality, use the same files names/structure.
I do have a fair bit of proof that things are not Kosher. But I'm going to keep these close to my chest until Anthony or someone from FL comes here to explain exactly what's going on.
When I add the fact <--- not my opinion --| that both affiliates programs behavior identically, to the other research I've done, this only further fuels my doubt and would hope others feel the same too.
If what you print and say are strongly governed by your ethics, you'll want to get to the bottom of this and find the REAL TRUTH as much as me or other affiliates, hey!
And how do you suppose someone notices cross marketing issues, when some affiliates, including myself were not aware of europalace much less WinGate?
Personal I think the two topics should have been split.
Vegasguy, the OP with the FL account issues should have remained where it was...
The FL connection to EuroPalace.com and WinGateAffiliates.com shifted to here as done.
This is after all affiliate issues with FL and this is the FL forum.
I don't have a Wingate Aff account. I do have a FA account. But like it was pointed out earlier, if this is like a White Label arrangement then it wouldn't be so unique or surprising if the affiliate programs did look very much alike. I say that because I promote Playshare Partners and also promoted Players Palace, and even though their affiliate programs were separate, the software and file structure looks pretty much exactly the same when I log in. So, what's different with this then with Playshare and Players Palace?
I agree totally that this thread has totally changed from the original posters message. This should almost have have been in a separate thread imo.
The difference is that FL - well actually Nitesh (according to GreedyGirl), has stated FA has no connection to WinGate. Somewhere here, someone's said neither europalace or WinGate are own by FL.
If that's true then Great, fantastic...
However for argument sake what if that is not true!
I spent more than enough hours yesterday digging around the net to see that 2+2 don't = 5
I can recall many affiliates being told by a few, VIP Lounge was owned by Virtual Casino Group. Not too many listen and scoffed at the suggestion. I could probably write a book on similar examples.
On that basis and the fact I'm an affiliate of FA, I have a right to ask questions and to seek the truth...don't I?
Dom, you got that right. This thread goes in a direction that not was mainly intended by me. I want to know the reason for the closure of my accounts, and this to be cleared and I want to make sure I am not on a blacklist for nothing within the MG database. I think it needs to be cleared because I am for sure not the onliest player being affected. Maybe some of you are curious about disappearing loyal players?
It is for sure interesting for us affiliates if there´s any connection between FL and wingate, however I think this needs to be discussed maybe in a new thread?
Further, it is definitly not my intention to start a thread where members bash others, there is no need to get rude or mad...it should be a business related discussion and nothing personal. So please behave. Thanks.
I only wanted to know if FA and WA where involved as I recently been contacted by WA affiliate manager. As I now know this is partly true (White Label)
I was satisfied by the results. I think this is getting out of hand. As the FA casinos are accredited at CM, i do not think they would crosspromote other brands.
I hope for you to get answers quickly as this can end up in mixed feelings about the casinos of FA or WA when promoting. However you have to understand that you can't mix business with pleasure, you have to seperate these things. So you can not play FA casinos, doesn't mean you can not promote them. I have simular with other casinos. Time heals all open wounds
You derailed the OP's thread with two separate posts about being suss to the business relationship of Fortune Affiliates and WineGateAffiliates:
What your saying is, correct me if I wrong...
WA affiliate manager contacts you.
You see someone else questioning the FA/WA connection.
You post your questions about FA/WA to this thread.
Is that about how it went?
But you leave out (in both posts) "recently been contacted by WA affiliate manager".
Just so there is no misunderstanding here...
This sort of stuff annoys me to no end. Peeps posting to forums planting a seed, watering it a few times and then bailing.
If you don't want a thread to spiral out of control, then either don't post or have to b#lls to see it through. Especially when other people stick their neck out based on what you post.
The Grand Prive`scam is a good example. No one in their right mind would have guessed in their wildest dreams they'd screw affiliates over. But they did!
Reiterating I could fill a book about all the dodgy dealings this industry has allowed affiliates to be screwed over by.
I could also include many stories about how this same industry has bent players over too.
I could also include the colourful history of industry identities that most follow with blind faith. When in reality have condoned if not indirectly assisted this industry to screw both affiliates and players over again and again.
I seriously believe that most people are so blinded by the smoke and mirrors employed by this industry to con and scam people, that even the Pope presenting HARD, SOLID, FACTUAL PROOF, would be mocked and ridiculed.
So on that note, I'm outa here...Frankly, I'm tired of sticking my neck out, standing up and trying to help people who inevitably can't or wont see the Forrest for the Trees.
Relationship doesn't mean there has to be something behind them.
I was curious about any relationship between the two of them as FA is accredited and if there is any relation, does that mean WA is also accredited, therefor I wanted to know.
You have something different in your mind do not pull me in there. If someone asked almost the same questions you do, doesn't mean they have to think alike.
I have seen the Grand Prive thing, gladly I never promoted them, and feel sorry for them who did, but this never crossed my mind to think they, Fa and WA, would do this.
I have good relations with both affiliate programs and been paid always on time as a player and as an affiliate.
please do not stop digging for answers, but not everyone have bad reasons for them.