CWC - Negative Carryover

Discussion in 'Affiliate Edge' started by NoLuckNeeded, Aug 20, 2007.

  1.  
    NoLuckNeeded

    NoLuckNeeded Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Aug 20, 2007
    I just found out CWC has negative carry over. :eek:
    This is not a good thing especially for an RTG casino,
    due to free chip wins.

    I do not deal with negative carry over affiliate
    programs.. there are too many good programs
    with no negative carry.

    I suggest all affiliates reconsider their promotion of Club World/club USA Casino.
    This is ashamed as this is one of the few good
    RTG Casinos. Maybe if enough affiliates
    stop promoting they will change their terms!
    :p



    We have had the negative rollover as part of our affiliate program since February 2007.

    Please let me know if you have any further comments or questions,

    Kind Regards
    Tom

    Casino Account Manager
     
  2.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Aug 21, 2007
    Thanks Tom. I'm going to move this to it's own thread, though :) I hope you don't mind - I should really lock the review threads... would make more sense

    Thanks and I understand completely why anyone would hate negative carryover - it sucks!
     
  3.  
    ziggy

    ziggy Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    For what it is worth, I was around with CWC when they changed to a negative carryover from none.

    To offset the negative carryover, they increased the affiliates percentage from 25% to 30%.

    While I am not crazy about negative carryovers, the 5% increase seemed to balance things out for me.

    I still represent them, although I've noticed a lot of downloads with no deposits in 2008. . .
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2008
  4.  
    NoLuckNeeded

    NoLuckNeeded Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Mar 26, 2008
    25% is below standard anyway.. you should be demanding at least 35% from all affiliate programs..
     
  5.  
    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    Sorry but really "demand" does nothing if your sites are not up to par or you under perform and I am not saying that is the case here with anyone here I just don't want a new affiliate to the industry come and read this post and think it is perfectly acceptable to demand a raise from programs.

    I have found in the years since I have been an affiliate it is much better to work close with your affiliate managers and if you are performing well most of them will work a deal with you but it is a two way street.

    I don't agree with the neg carry over and the program here knows this BUT there is no other RTG on the net that I would recommend to my players this is the most trusted RTG casino on the net and my players love the casino. It all works out in the end in time anyway that same player that is cashing out is most likely going to deposit again and play the money back:)
     
  6.  
    NoLuckNeeded

    NoLuckNeeded Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I understand your point BonusStreak, but that is not my view..
    Perhaps "demand" is the wrong word.. I have ASKED for
    higher commission since I was a brand new affiliate..
    AND Gotten it ALMOST 90% of the time.

    Getting the advertised lowest commission is like
    paying sticker price for a new car.


    If you are not asking for higher commission you are
    missing out on cash. If you are taking the first offer
    that an affiliate manager tosses out there then you hate
    money. Ask for what you are worth or maybe more than you are worth.

    THE WORST they can say is no.. right? squeaky wheel gets the oil.

    Take the first offer if you want.. that leaves the programs
    more room for them to negotiate with me;D

    LOL> I need to start my own little affiliate website
    I guess.
     
  7.  
    NoLuckNeeded

    NoLuckNeeded Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I hear what you are saying, but ONE big hit and
    all your money and investment in this program is
    TOAST.. Now instead of rooting for your players
    to win, you are hoping the $50K or $100K win
    never comes. If it does, all your player's money
    in the prgram is gone forvever.

    I am a huge gambler, but even that is too much of a gamble
    for me. I would never promote a negative carry casino
    heavily.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
  8.  
    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually as I said above it isn't always about me, I don't agree with the carry over like I said BUT my players come first to me and if they want to know of a reputable RTG to put their hard earned money into I will suggest this casino 100% of the time despite the loss I may take because for the simple fact my players trust me to point them in the right direction and I have spent a long time building up that trust with them.

    The real shame is that there are not more reputable RTG casinos out there but the fact of the matter is they are not a trusted software provider so players are very cautious when it comes to this.
     
  9.  
    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    I am not a big friend of neg carryover and won't promote places that have them in most cases.

    In some cases, such as CWC, I like the program well enough to promote them anyway.

    So far I haven't suffered any, but if and when I do, I will revisit the issue and if the setback is too big for me to easily absorb I will pull the casino.

    That has been my personal policy, but neg carryover is an individual matter. In some cases you just deprive yourself of good income for a long time because of the involved risk.

    I ask myself:

    How do I like the place?
    How do the players like it?
    How does it compare to others with the same software?
    How well does it convert and what income can I expect?

    If I assumed I would make $100 a month (to keep things simple) and I earned this for two years before some made a $1000 big hit, I would be ahead and have happy players in the process. At this point I could ask the program if they would consider removing the large carryover. If they don't, I can pull them, let it all settle by itself without risking income from new players, and have happy players who still play there take care of it. Once gone, I can reconsider according to whether the new players would do better where I just sent them or back at CWC.

    I still end up with money in my pocket, and most importatantly, my players are happy.

    I agree with bonusstreak, in the end the most important thing is happy players. If the place with neg carryover has comparable competition without neg, it's a no brainer, I skip the negatives.

    RE. negotiating percentages or CPA:

    An established aff can do this, and depending on the value they add to the program, they may or may not succeed.

    With CPA, this can be a death trap for newbies. If the CPA ends up higher than the player value, the program will not deal with you again.

    With %, if the program paid out whatever you negotiated to most affiliates, their profit margin wouldn't exist. So, if you negotiate a higher % successfully, and you fail to send enough good value players to make it worthwhile, the program will make sure not to give you good promos on top after a while. This will depend on player value and overall profits. This is why most programs build in a staggered % system from the start.

    Additionally, you may do yourself a big disfavor. The programs most likely to grant you a higher % from the start are often desperate - not exactly the kind of program you want to leave your player base with.

    I really don't think newbies would do themselves a favor by negotiating until they have reached a point where they can deliver.
     
  10.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I agree that Negative Carryover sucks. However, I also agree that most RTG's aren't worth promoting. I will promote places with negative carryover on occasion. CWC is one of them.

    I also agree with negotiating revshare. I don't care if it is a newbie or an experience aff. The car-buying analogy is correct - don't pay sticker. You many NOT get them to change the percentage, but it starts you off on the right foot - showing them that you are always up for negotiations.


    Those are my thoughts. With that said - CWC is awesome even with negative carryover. They are the only RTG program I promote.
     
  11.  
    ziggy

    ziggy Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly - CWC has been my best converting program.

    Regarding the commission "negotiating," I shy away from that for a number of reasons: (1) I want to give THEM a chance to kick my tires, and (2) give myself a chance to see if my players like and stay with them as well.

    If I were a very large affiliate, then of course I think negotiations come into play.

    The point made about staying in contact with the affiliate manager is especially important if that is the program you wish to push.
     

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