Rivalwide Progressive Issue - Rogue Poll.

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

what a shame. Soon the only keywords I rank for ... will be for casinos I no longer can afford to promote.

I really wanted Rival to be the one but its becoming all too apparent thru both their actions in this case and in my poor bottom line that I just can't afford them anymore.

I was looking at their stats the other day and admittedly the traffic I get now is some I am only beginning to know in the last year or so time, and is probably at least half traffic from SEs and most the rest from type-in / bookmarked which IMHO should be better than the traffic i used to purchase from PPCs (though I did only advertise with the ones which produced results), .... and my conversion rates are not impressive at all. I can't recall which place now but i remember the numbers seemed to be at about 1/2 what I would expect (real players / income especially).

all things considered ... I'll be taking majority of them down, hell I've carried them too long as is. I guess if I have to .. I'll just end up like Caruso and only promote one damn casino (to US, I still love my selection of MGS casinos but they're not in this equation) ... I guess the question will be which few want my traffic, loyal few followers as they may be, (I don't have a clue how many actually, might just be one really busy little old lady, God luv 'er) ... but they (or she) have managed to keep me around all these years so I'll not be in a hurry to send places that don't treat me in a fair manner because you know who's next?

And its always been that way!

Make no mistake, it IS a slippery slope and once they see the drop off in business due to the lack of appreciation (shall we say) by affs on boards just like this one, and perhaps not until they've first cut support to half staff, or almost none, and not until they've screwed over the AMs on late paychecks etc, will they do it, but at some point they will ... share the affs misery with their players.

It is a matter of ethics my friends, not anything else. Those that lack it, will always in the end create their own dismal fate even if it takes a period of time.

In fact it seems that fate (Karma, whatever you call it, my Mom used to say what goes around comes around) ... enjoys deservings, served cold.

that ALL said, Rival you still have a chance to turn around my predicted future.

I hope you do.

 

[Vladi]

Very interesting ...

Hi everyone,

As of today (March 1), I will be taking a leave of absence for an undetermined amount of time. I would like to say that it was a pleasure working with all of you and a great experience. Hopefully I will be back and you will hear from me soon.

Please contact Jason at Jason[at]thejetsetlife[dot]com with all future affiliate inquiries.

Kind regards,

Jaxon Lam

 

[NDN]

I'm disappointed in the lack of acknowledgment by all Rival brands that have yet to comment on this.

I contacted every group I work with (and that's pretty much all Rival brands) and asked them to read this thread and respond accordingly. So far, we have had just a few of the many groups make a statement.

I realize it's only Monday, but this is an extremely serious issue and it's in Rival's best interest to address this ASAP. Even if some of the AM's are unable to comment on specifics at the moment, it would be nice to get some sort of acknowledgment that our concerns are being heard and addressed. It's a good business practice to keep the lines of communication open and to keep your "partners" updated (even if you have nothing new to report).

I thought Monday was a business day?

 

[casinobonusguy]

I am concerned about Rival themselves going bust over this seize.They are a fairly new software and we do not know how much of their cash flow has been affected by the Master card issue.

 

[23Partners]

Planet23 affiliate payments with regards to Rival's recent changes

Dear forum members,

While we're under Affiliate Guard Dog review, we must post our response to the above subject ASAP. We appreciate AGD's assistance and giving us the opportunity to post a response:

Planet23 would like to inform you that the recent changes with Rival Gaming Progressive calculations will not effect our affiliates and all differences and deductions due to this change will be added to your affiliate account or will be paid directly to you via Planet23.

We are very proud to be one of Rival's new casinos but our experience in the business goes way back and we understand the importance of such things. Those kind of changes are always being checked by us and then implemented (if at all) according to our understanding and yours of course. For example, Planet23 had a player hitting a massive jackpot a few months ago, $93,000 worth. Casino withdraw limits were $2,500 per week and the player asked to withdraw $50,000 out of his winnings. Planet23 paid the player in weekly payments of $10,000 directly from the company and not via the regular processing of the software provider. For another example, Planet23 will also release special bonuses and promotions to RIVAL's high risk players with much lower wagering requirements. All players will be notified once those bonuses and promotions are released so our affiliates will not be hurt by advertising at those markets.
As such, we will always keep on giving our affiliates and players the best treatment and attention possible and we are always open to hear comments and make the necessary changes.

If you have any questions or comments and of course feed-backs, Please feel free to email any of us directly:

Danny (AT) planet23.com - Casino Manager
Affiliates (AT) planet23.com - Affiliate Department
Casinhost (AT) planet23.com - Specific questions you may have with regards to your players.

I wish us all a successful and long partnership.

Danny Lerner

Planet23 Casino Manager
===================

 

[NDN]

I was hoping to wake up to more than just the one response (thank you 23Partners).

Seriously though, where the hell are all the Rival people?

 

[Guard Dog]

Planet23 Partners - What about the issue of Processor Confiscations? What is your policy on that? That is as big an issue as the Progressive issue.

 

[inspiration]

I am concerned about Rival themselves going bust over this seize.They are a fairly new software and we do not know how much of their cash flow has been affected by the Master card issue.

I do not think that will happen but some consolidation might happen some day. I hope those will be merged with the stronger brands.

 

[NDN]

Due to retroactive term changes as well as pushing the cost of processor issues onto the affiliates, I have pulled all Rival brands (with the exception of Box24).

What's equally (if not more) disturbing than these issues is the failure of most Rival programs to communicate with their affiliates at a time when communication is of the utmost importance.

I'm disappointed in the way Rival is handling this situation and I am not entirely sure they are aware of the damage they are doing to their own brands.

I encourage all affiliates to do the same if they have not done so already. I was prepared to take a "wait and see" stance on how this was going to develop, but apparently we need to do more to get their attention.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I requested that every Rival group read and comment on this specific thread and with the exception of a few, my request has been ignored.

If a personal email is not enough to draw a response from most programs than perhaps a lack of traffic will do the trick.

 

[23Partners]

Planet23 affiliate payments with regards to Rival's recent changes

23Partners would like to address the recent processing issue in regards to MC deposits and inform our current and future affiliates that in case such an event will occur again in the future, all our affiliates will get paid in full with no deductions related to the above.

23Partners is a stable company with financial strength and therefore made the decision to take the responsibility for such events.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us directly via the forum or via email.

Sincerely,

Danny Lerner

Planet23 Casino Manager

 

[NDN]

Morning Update:

These casinos have expressed that they will not implement any of Rival's changes (with regards to progressive deductions and MasterCard losses):

Box24 Casino
Sloto'Cash Casino
Planet23 (According to both forum posts)

I received this statement via email (although I don't believe it has been made public):

Bonne Chance NV White Label partners have reviewed the retroactive claim and have decided to refund all progressive deductions up until and including February 28th, 2010. Bonne Chance NV is reviewing the current progressive system with its White Label partners to make sure every aspect of the system is fair and rewarding for the affiliate. It should be noted that Rival is not related to or involved in the decision making process nor does it have any financial interest in operator payments/adjustments or contributions to affiliates. Bonne Chance NV mediated the voting process between the White Label operators on solutions set forth.

While that's encouraging news, it does not address how they will handle the progressive deductions from March 1st onward. It also does not address the MasterCard issue. Until both issues are clearly and permanently resolved, I am still not promoting any Rival's with the exception of the three properties listed above.

 

[bonustreak]

Bonnie Chance needs to send a public statement IMO since over half of affiliates do not go to the forums! BTW everyone knows that Bonnie Chance is Rival- Rival is Bonnie Chance

 

[Guard Dog]

Bonne Chance NV White Label partners have reviewed the retroactive claim and have decided to refund all progressive deductions up until and including February 28th, 2010. Bonne Chance NV is reviewing the current progressive system with its White Label partners to make sure every aspect of the system is fair and rewarding for the affiliate. It should be noted that Rival is not related to or involved in the decision making process nor does it have any financial interest in operator payments/adjustments or contributions to affiliates. Bonne Chance NV mediated the voting process between the White Label operators on solutions set forth.

While that's encouraging news, it does not address how they will handle the progressive deductions from March 1st onward. It also does not address the MasterCard issue. Until both issues are clearly and permanently resolved, I am still not promoting any Rival's with the exception of the three properties listed above.

Yes, this doesn't mean much IMO. This means that they are still making a retroactive change, but are now applying it after the date we 'found' it.

And Bonne Chance is Rival, so this is still coming down from Rival. I feel sorry for 400 Affiliates and other White Labels who are getting the shaft from Rival

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Morning Update:

These casinos have expressed that they will not implement any of Rival's changes (with regards to progressive deductions and MasterCard losses):

Box24 Casino
Sloto'Cash Casino
Planet23 (According to both forum posts)

I received this statement via email (although I don't believe it has been made public):

Bonne Chance NV White Label partners have reviewed the retroactive claim and have decided to refund all progressive deductions up until and including February 28th, 2010. Bonne Chance NV is reviewing the current progressive system with its White Label partners to make sure every aspect of the system is fair and rewarding for the affiliate. It should be noted that Rival is not related to or involved in the decision making process nor does it have any financial interest in operator payments/adjustments or contributions to affiliates. Bonne Chance NV mediated the voting process between the White Label operators on solutions set forth.

While that's encouraging news, it does not address how they will handle the progressive deductions from March 1st onward. It also does not address the MasterCard issue. Until both issues are clearly and permanently resolved, I am still not promoting any Rival's with the exception of the three properties listed above.

So the red highlight above basically states that the casinos themselves "VOTED" for this change...correct. Why has no affiliate manager or Rep bothered to mention that fact yet?
____
____

 

[NDN]

Nearly a week of silence now from the majority of the programs.

Are there any other steps we can take collectively to speed things up?

I've contacted just about every program and I haven't received any kind of acknowledgment from the majority of them.

I've pulled all Rivals with the exception of the three that have assured us they will not be implementing these ridiculous changes.

I honestly thought that Rival would correct these issues very quickly, but I am afraid the silence is a hint of more bad things to come.

I can't recall one situation over the past 5+ years where a group went this silent and then something good came of it.

While both the progressive and Mastercard issues are extremely important, I now consider their failure to communicate the most serious problem.

 

[NDN]

This just in from SpinTime (one of the newer Rivals):

sorry about the little delay,

firstly it Seems, all the rival casinos calculations in this thread are incorrect, in our opinion, and this is why this problem has occurred.
They charging a fee, and not paying rewards out to affiliates. Their Calculations are deposits –withdraws-chargeback-progressive fees, and affiliates are not being rewarded on jackpots due to the fact their commission calculations are not on wagering.

Spin time is different, our calculations are as follows: bet - win - promo/bonus -charge back - progressive fees, so when affiliates players win a jackpot, play winnings it back into the casino, affiliate reap all the rewards.

This is one simple reason that set us apart from the rest.

This commission style is industry standards in all microgaming powered software operators. We thought this was the best option to go with as that part of our vision and plan, and its already looking like its paying off.

I'm not quite sure how to dissect this. While it "sounds" good for affiliates, I still see the "- progressive fee" in their calculation so I am not entirely sure this is what we are looking for.

I have followed-up with them to get their take on the Mastercard issue and I will report back as soon as I receive a response.

 

[slotplayer]

This just in from SpinTime (one of the newer Rivals):

sorry about the little delay,

firstly it Seems, all the rival casinos calculations in this thread are incorrect, in our opinion, and this is why this problem has occurred.
They charging a fee, and not paying rewards out to affiliates. Their Calculations are deposits –withdraws-chargeback-progressive fees, and affiliates are not being rewarded on jackpots due to the fact their commission calculations are not on wagering.

Spin time is different, our calculations are as follows: bet - win - promo/bonus -charge back - progressive fees, so when affiliates players win a jackpot, play winnings it back into the casino, affiliate reap all the rewards.

This is one simple reason that set us apart from the rest.

This commission style is industry standards in all microgaming powered software operators. We thought this was the best option to go with as that part of our vision and plan, and its already looking like its paying off.

I'm not quite sure how to dissect this. While it "sounds" good for affiliates, I still see the "- progressive fee" in their calculation so I am not entirely sure this is what we are looking for.

I have followed-up with them to get their take on the Mastercard issue and I will report back as soon as I receive a response.

anyone promoting this group? How is the wagering model working out?

 

[bonustreak]

We are promoting Spin time and we are doing very well! They are converting very nice and we are actually making money!!

 

[NDN]

From SpinTime:

the Mastercard story- Spintime we are absorbing ALL Mastercard funds lost, so affiliates will incur no loss of revenue as a result.

 

[nitro]

From SpinTime:

the Mastercard story- Spintime we are absorbing ALL Mastercard funds lost, so affiliates will incur no loss of revenue as a result.

And you'll make the mistake to relieve the pressure instead of pushing them to the limit. Killing Rival or getting it to the point where it almost breaks apart is the key to resolve the GP issue and prevent such cases in the future. The right response to that would be to put warnings on the websites that the rivals are in deep trouble because of a busted payment processor and starting a campaign about this in all possible gambling forums. Should the process stop once they start to give in you'll get a revenge at some point of time therefore it is necessary to go far further and break their will. That's very unsheep like but it works.