RA/CR Audit???

[Engineer]

webmasters will not be happy once they find out it aint all that great and will be sorry, just like me.

Solution : stop sending them traffic, which would be the same outcome after you have spent tons of cash and wasting your time.

You complain a lot about RA, yet you continue to promote them on most of the sites listed in your (massive) signature. If you dislike them so much, why are you still promoting them? Just wondering.

 

[Engineer]

One of the biggest reasons I haven't joined CR is because of the awareness of cross promoting between brands, specially within a casino group this big.

I wouldn't worry about this so much. If you send depositing players to a casino in the group, Rewards does not go out of their way to try to get that player to play at a different casino in the group. This would be blatant theft -- they don't do that.

 

[inspiration]

You complain a lot about RA, yet you continue to promote them on most of the sites listed in your (massive) signature. If you dislike them so much, why are you still promoting them? Just wondering.

1. I am testing other groups to replace them or least give them low traffic spots, but I am not sure which ones.

2. They will not be added on new sites.

3. I am busy with other projects to keep me afloat.

 

[Vladi]

I should add that my player accounts have all but dried up at RA. Guess the formal letter of complain which was to be sent to the Gov Dept., in charge of the IGA (Interactive Gaming Act) here in Australia, forced CR to re-think their acceptance of illegal bets from Australian citizens. They've since yanked aussie sign-ups. Albeit I yanked their banners/links.

However I was still seeing aussie active players, least up until last month (Sept 2011).

No doubt they wouldn't be keen on such a letter being sent. But I think the decision to stop accepting Australians came after a 7:30 Report film crew showed up asking questions at their offices in Bondi.

Did you catch this? It was on a few months ago.
7.30 - ABC

 

[Aussie-Dave]

I wouldn't worry about this so much. If you send depositing players to a casino in the group, Rewards does not go out of their way to try to get that player to play at a different casino in the group. This would be blatant theft.

Telling affiliates they have nothing to worry about IS totally misleading and false information on your part

Point in question, "Rewards does not go out of their way to try to get that player to play at a different casino in the group." Really?

The following quote from the mailer receive by my tagged player, shows CR actively encouraging and enticing him to cash-in his loyalty points at any of their 19 partner casinos.

(keep in mind CR/RA would not have this player if I did not refer them to Captain Cook Casino.)

Direct Mailer to my Tagged Player

All bonuses, comps and promotions will be credited to your CasinoRewards account as VIP points. You can log in at any time to check your account balance, or cash in your points for casino chips at any of our 19 partner casinos.

Unless my player has joined other casino rewards gaming properties, he will always default to a Direct Typein and be affiliate to no one, if or when he cashes in any loyalty points at any of the other CR casinos.

If you think that's BAD, the following is far worse!
---------

Direct Mailer to my Tagged Player

[screen.gif] You can access your CasinoRewards account in two
ways:
1. Visit FastMail.FM WARNING: URL text and host don't match,
possible phishing attempt. URL disabled. Original URL='http://www.crhelpdesk.com'. Original
text='www.casinorewards.com'.
2. Click on the login button in the green CasinoRewards box in
the lobby of the casino software.

The above shows my tagged player contacted by Casino Rewards, minus my affiliate tag. Following the hidden URL, the player arrives at a cloned CR page.

xxxhttp://www.crhelpdesk.com
you can start earning and spending points at a selection of nineteen exciting online casinos

Casino Rewards would not have my players details if I did not sign them up at Capatain Cook Casino. However within a few hours, Casino Rewards are actively enticing my player to use his loyalty points to play at their other casinos.

Keep in mind. my tagged player received a non tagged email, with a falsified link which led him to crhelpdesk.com (a clone page of casinorewards.com) which is heavily populated with all of the other Casino Rewards gaming venues.


Screen captures of proof for the follow:
Proof of CR/RA Stealing Tagged Players
When my tagged player clicked on AztecRichesCasino link found at crhelpdesk.com the referring ID was NOT my affiliate tag...BUT...recognised as a direct typein - Affiliate ID: TYPEIN_AZR http:// www. crhelpdesk. com/main/banking.php

This would be blatant theft.

This would be? This is blatant theft.
CR/RA has been doing it for years right under our noses. If it wasn't for GCG over at the GPWA who brought this scam into the light of day,
All 22 casinos in rewards player emails and links to CR website

I too would be non the wiser and still be send these crooks 1,000 of potential players to which, they would continue to fleece from me and other affiliates signed-up to the Rewards Affiliates Program.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

I think the decision to stop accepting Australians came after a 7:30 Report film crew showed up asking questions at their offices in Bondi.

Guess I'll be contacting the ABC tomorrow.

 

[Engineer]

Well, in my experience, high-value players have been retained at the casino where they were originally sent. I have players that have been at the same casinos for years.

Did you know that 32Red and Dash both link to 32redplc.com, which then links to the other brands in the group without tags? The 32Red logo even appears at the top of the Dash homepage.

But with Rewards, when I visit UK Casino Club, for example (with my affiliate link), then click on the Casino Rewards logo at the bottom of the page, then click on any of the other casinos linked from casinorewards.com -- my tag IS carried.

But I guess the 32Red group is still holier than Rewards....

 

[DoggyStyle]

But with Rewards, when I visit UK Casino Club, for example (with my affiliate link), then click on the Casino Rewards logo at the bottom of the page, then click on any of the other casinos linked from casinorewards.com -- my tag IS carried.

That's true. But if you visit for expample UK Casino Club (with your affiliate link) and DO NOT click on the Casino Rewards logo at the bottom of the page, instead you visit casinorewards.com (or you reach CR by clicking THEIR link in one of their Promo-Mails), then you are NOT tagged!

How many players click on the CR Logo at the bottom of the casino page? 1 out of 1000?

 

[FictionNet]

Did you know that 32Red and Dash both link to 32redplc.com, which then links to the other brands in the group without tags? The 32Red logo even appears at the top of the Dash homepage.

News to me. Thanks.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Is English your second Language, Dave? I ask because you seem to not understand Plain English too well.

when I visit UK Casino Club, for example (with my affiliate link), then click on the Casino Rewards logo at the bottom of the page, then click on any of the other casinos linked from casinorewards.com -- my tag IS carried.

Of course it carries over

However (for the umpteenth time), CR contacted my player VIA EMAIL without MY AFFILIATE TAG sent them to their website to login into the Loyalty account and whilst there MY TAGGED PLAYER, clicked through to Atztec casino, where, the referring aff tag registered as a TYPEIN assigned to Casino Rewards.

If my player had signed-up at Aztec Riches, he would be tagged to Casino Rewards and not me. If that isn't blatant theft of a player, I don't know what is!

If you actually took the time to view the screen caps you'd see what I mean.

Sorry about the caps but gee wiz, mate, throwing up smoke screens and playing semantics to protect Casino Rewards; Rewards Affiliates etc...etc when the facts are staring you straight in the eyes is, well I expcted a little better from you Engineer given, your on the auditing team here at AGD.

Given your position here, (IMO) your sure taking a very bias stance. I hope the same status qou is not a adopted when your wearing the AGD auditing hat.

Edit: Just in case...If your trying to rattle my chains or attempting to push my buttons (Dave) in hope I'll go ape on your #ss, (given the forum an excuse to lock the thread) give up, that wont happen.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

If my above post still finds you scratching ya head Engineer, maybe how inspiration words it will get through...

OK again another try :

Casinorewards does NOT want to change their internal and external cross promoting policy, how do you think they have become the biggest MG group out there huh?!

If you are lucky and the player ignores all their emails or does not surf around at casinorewards.com - you will have the benefits, BUT the odds are against us : 30+ casinos all linking to casinorewards.com (not tracking your btag) , tasting offers from other casinos in emails, the branding of CR in the casinolobby, the regularly sent newsletters, rewardsbuddies etc etc.

Get real ......their cross promotion tools work......against us.

about reviewing their T&C's : if the setup is not OK what is left to add, they do not have a NCO ...a good thing ... ?!

No AGD does not have to take the heat but should avoid displaying them as a recommened program, (new) webmasters will not be happy once they find out it aint all that great and will be sorry, just like me.

Here...Here

It's past 9am in NSW, time to call the ABC.

 

[Engineer]

Just to clarify, I am not part of the AGD audit team. I moderate and I vote on T&Cs when they are presented for review in the private area.

RA made some changes to their mailer policies a few months ago, after this was discussed at the GPWA. Did you do your test before or after these changes were made?

 

[dominique]

This issue is a perfect example of how threads that end up with a lot of attacks (not at AGD for this issue thank god) end up confusing the issue and result in completely voiding any cohesion.

The issue is as simple as can be:

There are links at the bottom of mails sent to players that lead to other casinos without tags.

The only change made to these mails was the wording above the links. Instead of saying that players should try these casinos, it now says to click to re-download.

The solution to this is very simple:

RA says the logos at the bottom are just for branding. If so, they do not need to be linked at all. Branding is visual.

This is where the buck stopped in negotiations with RA, they say that these links generate minimal clicks and are not important to affs.

If the traffic is so minimal, and so many affs are upset about them, why not leave the branding images without any link at all?

That is the issue in a nut shell.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Hi Dominique,

I can still remember the day you first gained your private membership at GPWA.

However what really stands out in my mind when I think of you dominque, was your sheer determination and self conviction to rally support and challenge full on the scumware issues (from memory 2002 - 2003?)

Your persiverence, gusto and above all belief, knowing the scumware issues were in fact unethical, were what kept you going and finally succeeding in your quests to have this practices outlawed.

---------

My fight is similar and it's more than just the CR logos.

The issues are:

1. Contacting tagged players with direct links
2. Enticing, encouraging and blatantly promoting their other brands to tagged players.
3. Accrediting Casino Rewards Group with player when the tagged player is contacted directly without aff tag etc...etc.
4. Compensation to all affiliates who have had their rightful income swindled.

I know Casino Rewards/ Rewards Affiliates has stongly appose these and refuses to change anything. However, the facts speak for themselves. CR with the help of RA are stealing players, no buts about it.

My revenue has all but dried up, even though I've sent 1000's of players. Any casino I was making money with, came to an abrupt halt not long after ownership came to Casino Rewards. Any income I have made since, is a pitence in comparison.

NB - CasinoBonusGuy, WCAdmin and others have posted the same stories. Are we all nutters!

Renee (my affiliate manager) often commented, your sending players some don't deposit first up but they are signing up, eventually I'm sure they'll deposit...Yeah right...What that broke down to is...Keep sending us players and we'll keep sendin g them emails without your affiliate tag and entice them to play at our other casinos...Thanks for being yet another CHUMP!

I personally wont rest until these issues are sorted out and ALL affiliates receive their right compensation for all players stolen from them.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Just to clarify, I am not part of the AGD audit team.

Sorry my mistake, your on the Certification Team.

RA made some changes to their mailer policies a few months ago, after this was discussed at the GPWA. Did you do your test before or after these changes were made?

Seeing I'm no longer a GPWA member I can't answer that. However if you've read the email posted here (from my player Tim), I'm sure you can cross reference the dates.

However what your leading to is a moot statement.

If CR/RA have changed the way they contact tagged players and don't contact them with clean links but the affiliate tags, that's a good thing. However, what about all the players stolen from affiliates previously to these changes being made...Years and Years of unethical cross marketing void of affiliate tags..

Are affiliate being compensated for these stolen players?
I haven't been and as far as I can tell, neither have others affiliates either!

 

[inspiration]

These should be the changes that have been made :

Now, there have been a few changes here over the last few weeks that I had requested up to a year ago, and me being "pretty" or "tantalising affiliates" or whatever was said about me in the other thread has absolutely nothing to do with this. It was me doing my job as I have and will always do. You guys should really stop underestimating me

Here are the changes - some have already been implemented and some will be done this week.

CasinoRewards.com - if an aff tag is passed to this website, the aff tag will remain there just like if you sent a player to one of the casino sites. So if your player ends up on casinorewards.com via your aff id and clicks on one of the casino sites from there, that casino will be tagged to you regardless of whether or not a previous affiliate had sent the player to that casino. So the tag will be overwritten.

I know there are going to be people complaining about this because it will mean that if another affiliate had previously referred the player to golden tiger, but then I refer the player to casino action, they click on casino rewards then go to golden tiger, the player will be tagged to me now because the tag carried through from casino action, to casino rewards, then to golden tiger from my referral. This is what you guys asked for and I have managed to get it approved. Please remember that this is what you asked for.

casinorewards.com tracking will go in this order:
Querystring
Session
Cookie

So if a new aff tag comes in via querystring, this will override any other tag on CR. If there is no querystring but a session is present where the tag starts with aff, the aff tag will remain. If there is no querystring, no session, but the cookie tag starts with aff, the cookie tag will remain. If there is no tag already via any of these, and no new tag comes in via one of these methods, the player will be tagged to CR. I am sure you will see this is fair.

The other change is that the casino rewards logo in the footer will contain tracking to casinorewards.com. This will be done this week.

If there is a techie here maybe you can test this tracking.


I still get : Affiliate ID: TYPEIN etc etc when I use the links from e.g. BJB casino / security / link to casinorewards.com / partner casinos

When I click on the footer logo it seems to track once arrived at xxhttp://www.casinorewards.com/main/partners.asp

when I choose Casinoshare review :

Direct Dowload + Logo "tracks" affid (from the session ID that is, not 100% sure)

The link after : Website url : xxwww.casinooshare.eu - I am not sure as I get Affiliate ID: TYPEIN


For promo emails /newsletters : the affiliate tag in it is from casinorewards not us.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

RA made some changes to their mailer policies a few months ago, after this was discussed at the GPWA.

So, effectively when I commenced this new thread Engineer you were well aware of these changes. You would have been aware of them when I asked Andy about the CR/RA audit a month ago too. Who else at ADG admin/staff knew of these changes???

I'm not a psychic and anyone who is anyone knows I don't associate with the GPWA anymore - I knew nothing of these changes until your post above.

Why you chose to let this thread rage on, wasting my time and others, whilst interjecting your "white noise" and backhanded slaps baffles me. Maybe you derive self gratification from my poignant posts (IDK) and have used this thread to basically set me up, to make me look foolish.

From where I'm standing it looks that way to me.

 

[dominique]

Please refer back to my previous post.

The issue that remains is the logos on the bottom of the mails sent to your players. As well as the text in these mails. It is often pointed out to the player that their "rewards" can be cashed in at any casino, and there are live links without tags at the bottom of the mail.

The other issues were fixed as far as I know. ( Haven't tested to see if it's true, but I believe it is).

We are now talking about mails only.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

The issue that remains is the logos on the bottom of the mails sent to your players. As well as the text in these mails. It is often pointed out to the player that their "rewards" can be cashed in at any casino, and there are live links without tags at the bottom of the mail.

Unless these have been addressed too, then yes these are still current issues.

The other, and one I feel affiliates caught up in this should not have to bare is compensation for lost revenue. Whilst it maybe next to impossible to map players who should be tagged to affiliates, the point that affiliates have lost revenue should also be a major concern. CR/RA should make amends to these affiliates. Maybe a once off payment (for losses incured) would be an acceptable move forward.

The other issues were fixed as far as I know. ( Haven't tested to see if it's true, but I believe it is).

As far as I can tell yes. But haven't tested them out as Australians are now blocked from joining CR gaming venues Income has all but dried up, so I can't tell. Adding my test player was wiped from receiving mailers etc...etc since his email identity was revealed. That's goes for me too.

Again, I don't receive nor have I received any corispondence from RA or my affiliate manager since I become vocal on these issues.
I've been effectively, blacklisted.

 

[Engineer]

So, effectively when I commenced this new thread Engineer you were well aware of these changes. You would have been aware of them when I asked Andy about the CR/RA audit a month ago too. Who else at ADG admin/staff knew of these changes???

I'm not a psychic and anyone who is anyone knows I don't associate with the GPWA anymore - I knew nothing of these changes until your post above.

Why you chose to let this thread rage on, wasting my time and others, whilst interjecting your "white noise" and backhanded slaps baffles me. Maybe you derive self gratification from my poignant posts (IDK) and have used this thread to basically set me up, to make me look foolish.

From where I'm standing it looks that way to me.

Dave,

I was referring to the massive thread at GPWA titled "All 22 casinos in rewards player emails and links to CR website," which ran from March to August 2011. It's in the private area, which you had access to before you were banned in July.

I didn't "choose to let" anything rage on, as you put it. I brushed it off as Dave and inspiration kicking a dead horse; I skimmed your posts originally because, to be honest, I don't like reading them (too long, too bitchy). CR made changes over the summer, and that is what I was referring to. Which obviously isn't what you were carrying on about, so I apologize.

Now, getting back to the original off-topic issue... One of the things that so outraged you (in post #25 of this thread) was this:

Original URL='http://www.crhelpdesk.com'. Original
text='www.casinorewards.com'.

I asked about this, and I was told that the underlying URL was changed to crhelpdesk.com because the casinorewards.com domain was apparently blacklisted for a short time (meaning the mailers would not get through to players).

The links were changed back after the ban was lifted, but that one link wth the text "www.casinorewards.com" was missed.

This has now been corrected. As of yesterday, all of the links in the "welcome to CR" mailer point to casinorewards.com, which means that if a player had your affiliate tag previously set at casinorewards.com, the player will be tagged to you if they decide to visit casinorewards.com and click any of the casino links on the page.