RA/CR Audit???

[Aussie-Dave]

AffiliateGuardDog
https:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/28826-post50.html
I will run some tests on players at CR, myself.
For the remainder of this thread, I do not want any more accusations being thrown CR's way until these tests are completed.
Again, those who wish to conduct tests, please contact me. I will help perform the audit myself and set up a test plan that will help us come to our own conclusions.

Then you do not know enough about test vectors and proper analysis Hey, man... I'm an engineer... I do everything slowly and with purpose. ha! Yes, it will take time and still more to be accurate. But it will be decisive.

You can run test vectors and analyise these till the cows come home Andy...But in the CR thread you closed down, I posted facts that CR is cross marketing to tagged players without the affiliate tag. I proved that point more than once and so have others too!

Fact One
https:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/28692-post7.html

Fact Two
https:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/28693-post8.html

Fact Three
https:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/28701-post16.html

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Not sure if your aware but this fiasco has been onging since March 2011.

It's now Almost November 2011.
That's over 3 months (13 weeks or there abouts) since it was stated here on AGD that it was going to conduct an audit on CR/RA.

Has this audit be completed?
Has it even been started?
If it has when will the results be made public?

 

[inspiration]

CR/RA does cross promote players without our affiliate btags that is no secret (anymore thanks to .... LOL), I do not like it but that is just the way it is I am afraid.

For testing an individual account for deposits etc : I think you will need to burn a ton of cash in order to do it properly but I think they will pass that test anyway as it is the cross promotion and casinorewards.com branding that makes it profitable for them and therefore CR is very protective to sustain this way of marketing, look at the GPWA then you know why.

High value accounts that is what they are after as players have a lot brands to choose from - and it is then when their cross promotion tools kick in to make a 100% profit - as it is highly unlikely that the affiliate already referred that player to these new casinos.

 

[FictionNet]

I miss your tenacity over at GPWA, Dave. I'm glad I have 'found' AGD again - there are many voices here I haven't heard in a while. Thread disrail over

 

[Aussie-Dave]

I miss your tenacity over at GPWA, Dave.

Thanks Mate, appreciated

However in retrospect, I or anyone else shouldn't have to hound (no pun intented) people. Affiliates & or players should be treated fairly, no if's no but's, no excuses. If something ain't right address the damn thing and don't shoot the messenger/s or sweep it under the proverbial carpet.

I don't think that's expecting too much.

 

[inspiration]

You are expecting too much Dave as :
1. people have different agendas and

2. do not want to jeopardize their account

therefore nothing will change.

BUT this does not mean one can not remind fellow webmasters that CR/RA offers a bad business model to gullible affiliates.

Best solution is to stop sending traffic to CasinoRewards people !

 

[Aussie-Dave]

You are expecting too much Dave as :
1. people have different agendas and

2. do not want to jeopardize their account

therefore nothing will change.

That's the general consensus I've formed.

I can't comment on other forums, because either I don't value their integrity (closed account) or they don't appreciate me standing up for what's ethically correct and I get closed down.

Here at AGD we're asked to act professeionally. However if that's the case then issues such as these should be a concern and investigated void of bias or a self preservating agenda.

Being told an audit will be done on CR/RA, yet 3 months later there still is no mention of these findings or if the audit has even commenced, I find insulting to my intelligence, as I'm sure others who share my views do too.

If professionalism is the buzz word here then acting responsibly and making sure you do what you say your going to do, should also fit into that mandate also...just saying!

I'm not the ethics police by any means. I'm just an average Joe affiliate who, has every right to protest about double standards and getting shafted by unethical business practices.

Edit: above comments were made before Guard Dog posted.
Thanks for the update and laying the cards on the table!

 

[Guard Dog]

Ok... Here is the deal with CR/RA Audit.

I was going to be working with another group to perform the audit and had a plan ready to go. However, the group has backed out due to personell issues. So - at this point it is going to be tough to run. I am open to ANY and ALL suggestions here, guys.

I want to do this, but it requires:

1. Knowledge of player bases (i.e., needs involvement of affiliates who know their players)
2. $$$
3. Direct following to plan


Much more, but I won't divulge details or it will just become ineffective.

 

[Guard Dog]

Here at AGD we're asked to act professeionally. However if that's the case then issues such as these should be a concern and investigated void of bias or a self preservating agenda.

Being told an audit will be done on CR/RA, yet 3 months later there still is no mention of these findings or if the audit has even commenced, I find insulting to my intelligence, as I'm sure others who share my views do too.

If professionalism is the buzz word here then acting responsibly and making sure you do what you say your going to do, should also fit into that mandate also...just saying!

I'm not the ethics police by any means. I'm just an average Joe affiliate who, has every right to protest about double standards and getting shafted by unethical business practices.

No you are not.

And.... there are no unethical business practices here at AGD.

Anyway, read above... we posted at the same time.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Ok, so what do you need in the way of dollars, a ball park figure?
And what else do you require to make this happen?

I should add that my player accounts have all but dried up at RA. Guess the formal letter of complain which was to be sent to the Gov Dept., in charge of the IGA (Interactive Gaming Act) here in Australia, forced CR to re-think their acceptance of illegal bets from Australian citizens. They've since yanked aussie sign-ups. Albeit I yanked their banners/links.

However I was still seeing aussie active players, least up until last month (Sept 2011).

 

[Guard Dog]

Well, it needs more than just a $100 deposit. And it needs more than just 2-5 players.

We need a test vector of:

• 10-20 REAL Players
• varying $100 - $1000 deposits

 

[Guard Dog]

Requirements (low level):

• Players who are KNOWN assets (i.e., players from forums who the affiliate knows of and has had positive interaction with)
• Players who are willing to set up an email address that is for this purpose.
• Players who have the ability to take $$ via Paypal or some other source for playing purposes and then use their own payment methods for playing.
• Players who are willing to play all the $$ even when they win in a lot of cases But that is part of the test as well, so variance will occur.

that's just a start.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

If I can add a point of reference.
I understand the need to establish a cross section of player deposits and play, I agree with that 100%.

I would like to mention as I think it relivant, my test player, didn't deposit but signed up as a real player and accepted the $500 1 hour deal. So in this case he'd not made a deposit but still received mailers void of my aff tag.

Just some additional food for thought.

 

[inspiration]

derail

Guys please focus on what do you want to prove here ?

What happens if CR/RA fails the test for counting all deposits for an INDIVUAL account (the chance that will happen I think would be very slim) ?

In the worst case scenario we would need to remove the banners/links, stop sending them traffic immediately.

BUT what is the DIFFERENCE here as you get paid for the INITIAL referral ONLY nothing else.

Mailers with CR aff tags not yours will be send to those new email addresses.

Solution : stop sending them traffic, which would be the same outcome after you have spent tons of cash and wasting your time.

/derail

 

[Jidder]

One of the biggest reasons I haven't joined CR is because of the awareness of cross promoting between brands, specially within a casino group this big.

If help is needed I'm willing to help out in anyway possible.. as a player, affiliate or domain etc..

Just drop me a pm if you have any questions or so.

Regards
J

 

[Guard Dog]

If I can add a point of reference.
I understand the need to establish a cross section of player deposits and play, I agree with that 100%.

I would like to mention as I think it relivant, my test player, didn't deposit but signed up as a real player and accepted the $500 1 hour deal. So in this case he'd not made a deposit but still received mailers void of my aff tag.

Just some additional food for thought.

I have a LOT of details like that in my test plan, btw. I am just not willing to divulge them all here Not until after an audit has been performed.

 

[Guard Dog]

derail

Guys please focus on what do you want to prove here ?

What happens if CR/RA fails the test for counting all deposits for an INDIVUAL account (the chance that will happen I think would be very slim) ?

In the worst case scenario we would need to remove the banners/links, stop sending them traffic immediately.

BUT what is the DIFFERENCE here as you get paid for the INITIAL referral ONLY nothing else.

Mailers with CR aff tags not yours will be send to those new email addresses.

Solution : stop sending them traffic, which would be the same outcome after you have spent tons of cash and wasting your time.

/derail

That's not a derail, IMO... but perfectly topical. The purpose here at AGD would be to allow for a listing appropriate to RA/CR. If they pass, certification makes perfect sense. If they fail and are shown to completely re-market their casinos to your player base for the sole purpose of cutting out the affiliate - then they can be listed as predatory or rogue.

That would allow anyone 'looking' to see that they either ARE or AREN'T a good outfit to promote. Simple as that, really.

 

[bonustreak]

Why AGD is taking the heat I have no idea our job is to read terms, not do auditing but I would guestamate to do this correctly it would cost no less then 7-10k that is just a ballpark figure.

 

[inspiration]

OK again another try :

Casinorewards does NOT want to change their internal and external cross promoting policy, how do you think they have become the biggest MG group out there huh?!

If you are lucky and the player ignores all their emails or does not surf around at casinorewards.com - you will have the benefits, BUT the odds are against us : 30+ casinos all linking to casinorewards.com (not tracking your btag) , tasting offers from other casinos in emails, the branding of CR in the casinolobby, the regularly sent newsletters, rewardsbuddies etc etc.

Get real ......their cross promotion tools work......against us.

about reviewing their T&C's : if the setup is not OK what is left to add, they do not have a NCO ...a good thing ... ?!

No AGD does not have to take the heat but should avoid displaying them as a recommened program, (new) webmasters will not be happy once they find out it aint all that great and will be sorry, just like me.

 

[slotplayer]

these guys cross promoting are the least of my worries, at least I know where I stand. The oddities I see in my stats these days are pale in comparison.

 

[dominique]

What exactly are we going to test for?

I highly doubt that they shave, and the fact that they send cross promotions that have links without aff codes is a proven fact and they admit it.

I am not sure what's to be tested here...