How many affy programs steal your players?

Discussion in 'General Casino Affiliate Area' started by KasinoKing, Jun 26, 2010.

How many players are affy programs stealing?

  1. None - I don't think it happens.

    4 vote(s)
    6.9%
  2. A few - but even 1 is 1 too many!

    25 vote(s)
    43.1%
  3. A few - but that is acceptable.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. A lot - and I'm really pissed about it!

    16 vote(s)
    27.6%
  5. A lot - but it's "just one of those things".

    7 vote(s)
    12.1%
  6. They all do it - but what can you do?

    6 vote(s)
    10.3%
  1.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    Care to elaborate that statement?


    Cheers

    Dave
     
  2.  
    lots0

    lots0 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    OK, just remember, you asked for it... ;)

    A lot of affiliates I talk to seem to think that regulation in the US will mean an open market. With fast and easy money transfers no problem depositing, with lots of different online casinos vying for players, an eden for affilaites.

    Reality will be quite different. Regulations as proposed, will close the US legal online gaming market to all a but a very few land based operators that will expand into the online market. Those few 'legal' US online casinos will not use affiliates. Only the bigger sites may get media buys.

    None of the online casinos that currently take US customers will ever be allowed a license, as they 'broke the law' by taking US players, and transferring gambling money, thus making them ineligible for a license.

    Don't get wrong, the current state of affairs is not going away soon, even after regulation.

    But let me ask you, why would anyone play at a casino where you have trouble depositing and cashing out, where there is always a question IF the casino is cheating or not and IF your going to paid... When you can play at a well known Las Vegas/Alantic City Casino brand that is government regulated and there is never any problems with deposits or cash outs and your guaranteed to get your money?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  3.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Sorry, initially I thought you were talking about Harras linked up with Cassava...
    but with that statement, obviously not! :mad:

    KK
     
  4.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    That's exactly why I keep fighting my fight!

    I see affiliates just like me, hard working folk that are trying to make a living.
    However the majority of the industry don't seem concerned with what lays a head. Instead they allow clip joints and rogues to give the industry a bad name.

    They turn a blind eye to spam and other dubious practices, all because it puts dollars in their pockets now.

    I'm pretty sure if the USA allow Vegas Casinos to operate online legally, players will flock to these venues, because as you say "why would anyone play at a casino where you have trouble depositing and cashing out, where there is always a question IF the casino is cheating or not and IF your going to paid."

    But for some reason our industry can't or wont see this a BIG threat.

    Personally I'd like to know that my business is going to last a bit more than 5 years. With the above likely to happen, it's not a IF any more but a when.


    Cheers

    Dave
     
  5.  
    lots0

    lots0 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I was talking about harras and 888 or cassava and others.
    I don't get why your angry thou...

    I couldent agree more.

    But the die has been cast and there is no going back now.

    IMO the best out come for us affiliates, but maybe not so much for players, is to have the UGIEA nulified with the new financial regulation... but not have Federal(nation wide) regulation in the US. This looks to me to be the most likley out come in the next few years.
     
  6.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Then go back to the first post in this thread!
    888.com was the first casino I listed as 99% certainly ripping me off my player sign-ups.

    Cassava has one of the worst reputations of any operator on the net and are rogued, or near-rogued at many portals.
    Why on earth of all the other options, Harra's went with them is totally beyond me ???
    I would have thought WagerWorks or Crypto (who both have Vegas Slots) would have been a FAR more attractive option.

    But what do I know - I'm just a player and not into politics at all! :p

    KK
     
  7.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    lotso has a point. Here are some counter points.

    1) Harrah's etc, won't be able to get the same rankings or same coverage as other outfits (especially with no affiliate program) -- are you or anyone else going to advertise for them without a program to pay you?

    2) Other programs aren't going away - these guys have hundreds of millions. If you have to be licensed to operate they will simply setup a new corporation and move to Las Vegas! Imagine the conventions that will be starting up again in Vegas! - It won't be possible to keep us out of the game in my opinion.

    3) Once the big boys go electronic, they will be at the same risk for fraud and cheating as everyone else and will (presumably) be regulated by the same standard (depending on where they are licensed) ...

    I imagine it will be disruptive... but not the end of the world. Sorry we are off topic now for sure. here is the new thread: http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/fo...g-online-hurt-affiliates-t2859.html#post17360
     
  8.  
    lots0

    lots0 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Oh Ok... I though you were mad at me...

    As far as cassava, I was one of the first to blacklist them and I took a LOT of flack for it.

    The thing with cassava is that they do treat players well (for the most part) it is their attitude toward affiliates that got them blacklisted by me and many others.
     
  9.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    sorry moved my post to the other thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  10.  
    universal4

    universal4 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    We have seen tthe timeout issue over at the GIA a few times.

    One thing we have found that helps reduce it is to set the compatability view for the site in IE8.

    That has reduced to times I see it and Nick has seen it over at the GIA greatly.

    Rick
     
  11.  
    scuter

    scuter Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Please forgive me if this has been floated as an idea already, but as a non-casino affiliate [but poker rakeback affiliate for years], I'm a tiny bit surprised that yall haven't organised a small team of 'testers' to run through specific 'suspect' affiliate groups? I know before I agree to any new poker aff deal, I'll run a number of real money players through and if there's even a hint of shenanigans, I'll probably give them a miss etc.

    Perhaps a couple high volume type players for those affiliate departments that like to divert whales off your trackers after a couple months etc? I mean, I hella play at casinos a lot, I'd be willing to act as a tester on occasion.

    Perhaps yall are already organised up like this, I just skimmed the first page and was passing in for the night. If so, apologies. holla
     
  12.  
    GFPC

    GFPC BWIN IS ROGUE

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    Scuter many of us do that. I have tried to get affiliates around here and other places to do so - but for some reason they never step up.

    There are a good handful of people who really do this type of work and get it reported properly.

    Anyways i developed a new smiley for all those who screw us daily.

    This smiley is called the "I scam affiliates so blow me"

    When you see it in a thread it means that particular affiliate program is a scam and they do what the picture protrays.

    Especially Big Daddy's from last year and Luck3 Poker this year. i guess you can add RIVAL to the list!!

    This is for all you SCUM BAG Affiliate programs!


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  13.  
    scuter

    scuter Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I've stolen this image. Not even going to ask permission cause...hell I was gonna steal it anyway :) ty ty

    ---------

    But I mean, I don't want to *promise* or be like the go-to guy, but I am a degen and if there is someone who wants me to run a deposit through a new casino or something I can let them know set times / deposit amount / incoming URL /IP or w/e might help - within my laziness / limited functionality to do so ofc ofc. I've done this earlier this year for a couple people I think - my memory doesn't go back that far. I seem to remember it raising some flags :( which, cause I'm the world's biggest cynic, I expected. But it was disappointing for the casino affiliates...understandably.

    I think I said something on one of the forums I'm now banned on along the lines of "literally the only thing that amazes me is that affiliates who rely on someone's 'word' for tracking / etc....ever get paid at ALL!" - but I guess yall talk and word gets around and the worst get weeded out etc...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  14.  
    GFPC

    GFPC BWIN IS ROGUE

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    The three things in this industry that are so prevalent right now are:

    1. Affiliate program scams - ie scalping, shaving, non tracking, theft ect

    2. Content theft - rippers, affiliates who are thieves and steal from on another.

    3. Spam everywhere - email and forums.

    Its so very hard for any community to correct these issues when everyone has their own agenda and really only care about their own bottom line.

    For over two years i have been affected by all three - and i fight these things with all i got and there are other affiliates who do the same.

    Until we get big numbers of affiliates to organize and step up and do something about it it will continue at a more alarming speed. It already is.

    I am not talking about token gestures where some forums will wait 6 weeks and then send emails hoping for replies..

    There needs to be stiff penalties!! Instant and exact! - but you need hundreds of affiliates that will work together and solve this.

    Unless many affiliates are being affected directly via $$$ lose of an attack on their own site only a handful really do care.

    Stick around and you will see who gives a shit and who doesn't.
     
  15.  
    lots0

    lots0 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    the APCW used to do audits for affilaites... before Corfman took them over. Now it seems to me all the APCW does is try to legitimize questionable programs.

    A lot of programs have clauses that forbid your employees from signing up to test...
    Here is RIVALS
    source:xxhttp://www.400affiliates.com/terms#15

    A lot of other programs have the same type of clause forbidding employees or family from 'testing'...

    The responsible honest affiliates can't really change things... It is the Casino software providers that are in control.

    If the casino software providers wanted to stop all this crap (spam, scraping and cheating) they could in one fell blow... but they won't. Because all their tiny brains see is that it might cost them some $$ in the short term.

    Till the software providers decide to do somthing to fix all this shit... nothing will change.
     
  16.  
    arkyt

    arkyt Calling it like I see it.

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    Yah I don't see those audits as being anything but extensionary promotions for sponsors.

    I agree a lot of the fraud could be prevented, but IMO most are out to get what they can while they can - too many are short-sited, and as long as the getting is good they are willing to ignore quite a bit of unethical activity.
     
  17.  
    scuter

    scuter Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    But friends are always allowed, of course? And if your friends happened to remember the pertinent information regarding their deposit and play which they might mention to you purely happenstance or in passing, which then caused one to raise one's eyebrows at non-correlating affiliate data....

    I do not doubt that is 100% the case.
     
  18.  
    GFPC

    GFPC BWIN IS ROGUE

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    Wise words mate!! I would have to agree with you fully!!

     
  19.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Update:
    BetUS saw this thread and contacted me; according to them Robwin signed up 3 or 4 days BEFORE I started promoting them (which was May-22nd 2009), so it looks like Rob may have been mistaken.

    KK
     
  20.  
    universal4

    universal4 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Hmmmmm

    A time Guru he is not.....LMFAO


    Rick
     

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