FYI- If You didn't read the term update at Kindred(Yes, this is enforced with 32Red once they merge)

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Buzz and Terms Alerts' started by bonustreak, Apr 22, 2018.

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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    I was told with all the brands they have I should not have a problem getting 6 NDC in 3 months across all brands and that this is pretty competitively checked against several other affiliate programs. No cares at all about this being retroactive and predatory.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    When programs make retroactive changes like this, trust goes out the window. Today it might be 6 NDCs in 3 months, but what's stopping them from getting even more greedy in a year or so? They could bump it to 6 per month, or 20 per 3 months -- who knows.

    AGD has rightfully rogued these brands, but so far CM still hasn't addressed this.

    I posted again in the CM thread a few minutes ago.
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It seems that Kindred won't be rogued at CM. Of course everybody has the right to decide for himself who to rogue and who not, but I didn't expect this. I thought retro-actively forcing this kind of terms led to the rogue list. But it's not just CM.

    Also this would be a good case for "the union". Kindred is a program many people are working with, they're an important factor in many regulated markets (hence, most affiliates in the future have to deal with them) and it's a party that cannot just close their websites and pop-up new ones from Curacao. It would be a good test case. Also, because they care about publicity.

    Kindred is clearly dodging the issue, although this is a sword of Damocles above the head of every affiliate. It's a bit like kids stealing a candy from a store. Once you've left the shop with a candy and with still your money, they're already half in the next try to steal a complete chocolate bar.
     
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    Joonas

    Joonas Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It says they reserve the right. Has anyone experienced that they actually change the reward plan or withhold commissions?
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    They told me my account is not in danger. But that's today. Tomorrow they can just lower the deal if they want. They're having good positions in many markets, within a few years this will be a quite saturated brand.
     
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    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate. Staff Member

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    What makes you say that?
    He has just got back from a holiday and probably has a whole heap of stuff to look at, but I'm sure there are several members there who will remind him to look at this issue and make a final decision.
    I don't think he would, or even should rogue them, but they should definitely lose accredited status IMO.

    KK
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It's stated in the thread.

    Sure thing it's up to every webmaster who to rogue and who not.
     
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    FYI, there are some new posts on page 3 of the thread at CM. Bryan did respond to my PM and said he might have time to look into it this week. If you have anything more to say about this before he makes his decision, now would be the time.
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I cannot post in that thread, so here.

    The proposed solution - only appy the new t&c on new players - is exactly what they're not doing.

    Basically, they're giving themself a carte blanche to lower your commission, change your deal or close your account when they want. All the bla-bla of their affiliate managers to dodge the issue is worth nothing. I'm doing business with KIndred, not with an affiliate manager that has absolutely zero decision power internally and they perhaps will be working for another program next month.

    IAnd accreditation? Players don't care if you or I will see their account closed at Kindred or if we're left with a 5% commission deal because the brand is completely saturated in a market. In the end, it's an opinion of webmasters. I see brands being top at one website, while being blacklisted at another website and visa versa. Very few webmasters are going to blacklist their top partners. Leave alone when they're not hit themselves, neither their players. Leave alone 2 when it's one of the key players in almost every regulated market.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
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    Webzcas

    Webzcas Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Send me a PM on Casinomeister and I will add you to the webmasters group :)
     
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    RyanWeb

    RyanWeb Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I just got an email stating that they have closed my account due to inactivity.

    "Dear Affiliate,

    After a review of your account, we can see that you have failed to send us any New Depositing Players in the last 3 months, as well as receiving no commission from us.
    Our partnership is therefore benefiting neither party as your account is essentially inactive, and it is for this reason that we are planning to suspend it.
    If you feel that there is potential for us to work together in a financially successful capacity, please contact us at affiliate@kindredgroup.com
    If we do not here from you within the next week, your account will automatically be suspended on 16/07/2018"

    Basically just for fun I wrote them back:

    "Hello,
    I have been away for a bit as I am in the middle of moving. Sorry for the late response.

    While it is true, I do not move much UK traffic at the moment, I have been working to increase my UK exposure. I do still actively promote my websites that have you listed, I would like to keep the reviews up, for as long as my affiliate account stays active, but if it may get closed in the near future because I am not able to gain traffic fast enough, I understand and will just remove the reviews.

    Do let me know,

    Thank you"

    Their final reply:

    "Your account was suspended due to inactivity on the 16th June as per the email and our T&Cs

    Best

    Ben"
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I now can't use my account anymore without accepting the new t&c. They didn't change anything, but accepting means accepting this quota.
     
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    AussieDave

    AussieDave 18 years & still going!

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    If you don't accept the new T&C's, Kindred continue to profit from past-players-sent. BUT you get nothing...
    If you do accept, then your bound by the new Kindred T&C's/quota.

    That's... Third-line Forcing
    Your agreeing to something under pressure, and you have no choice BUT to agree to new T&C's, if you want to continue to be paid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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    LandofOz

    LandofOz Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I'm guessing that they are probably struggling financially and are trying to "motivate" their affiliates to send them more traffic and players. These sort of tactics usually backfire.
     
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    Webzcas

    Webzcas Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I hate quotas, christ I even ended up in court last December due to a player quota being forced upon me. But playing devil's advocate here. I think Kindred, just want an open two way channel of communication with the affiliates that are working with them.

    It is up to each individual affiliate whether you of course want to continue to work with them.
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    From operator perspective I do understand quota. Workload increased with all those compliance rules and things. They simply do not want to monitor and be responsible for websites that aren't of any value for them anymore since years.

    But I think they should respect deals that were made at some time. If they want to put a quota for new traffic, I am ok with that, but for the old traffic I never ever agreed a quota with them.
     
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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    They are picking and choosing which affiliates to make deals with by bending the rules for the larger affiliates. I worked with 32Red for years and just after Kindred took over they put me down to 10%. This is theft and predatory, there are no understandings for the operators! The new quota is ridiculous, some of you larger affiliates who they are being nice to for now will see yourselves being bent over eventually. I don't understand the whole.. well, it is okay since they didn't force it on me. IT IS NOT OK!
     
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    danniee

    danniee Affiliate Program Representative

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    Kinred, you're a disgrace to the whole industry.
     
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    RyanWeb

    RyanWeb Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Its like they don't learn.... Can anyone name a casino group that is actually doing better after screwing over their affiliate partners? Maybe it did workout for one or two, profit wise, but it doesn't seem to be working out that way for everyone. I only assume it worked out well for a few programs, because so many programs seem to think its such a good business decision.

    I'm actually interested to know. I also think affiliates help keep programs honest and protect players with the threat of negative press. We live in a world where one honest review can make or break a company, no matter how large.

    It would also be interesting to make a list of casinos that once had good affiliate terms, and compare their profits before and after they went from Certified to Rogue status. It may also be helpful to include how they treat player issues before and after.

    Before and After P&L
    Before and After Player Trust

    This might be hard with private companies, but it should be easy enough to do with anyone publicly traded.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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