Big trouble on Planet 23?

[TheGamblingGuru]

The white-labels are likely going to see MAJOR traffic drops and it will be more difficult for them going forward....

Rick

Also, lets not kidd ourselves at the same time and think that Bailey's action here is also not going to take a large chunk of affiliate commissions out of the affiliates pockets as well. Those commissions are a lively hood to a lot of affiliates who do not work another job.

Actions like Baileys above could in-fact cause a ripple effect that would be devastating to an entire software group including the NON-WHITE LABELS.

Please tell me again (since I maybe missed your answer before ) why the main players here on this board have yet to comment on this detrimental development that could crash an entire software platform and the innocents in-directly involved?

Would you guys be sitting idly by if the same "Rogue List" had happened with MG, RTG or Playtech?

Thanks for your comments here Rick.

All I would like to see here is some non-duck-an-jiving straight talk and comments without any PC BS attached, you know...like a real discussion about this maybe.
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[Guard Dog]

Please tell me again (since I maybe missed your answer before ) why the main players here on this board have yet to comment on this detrimental development that could crash an entire software platform and the innocents in-directly involved?

I think I am a 'main player' I thought I answered, but I think what you are interested in is our thoughts about the warning for Rival White Labels by Bailey?

I don't see the reason to lump them all into 1, personally. If I did, then I wouldn't have Superiorshare (which is a good white label) as a sponsor here

There are white labels with enough money behind their operations to absorb the fees that Rival is submitting to them and there are the others that will fold.

But, lumping them all together is detrimental (as Rick suggested) and hurts affiliates as much as the casinos (because some of us earn money off of those white labels). If they fold, many of us will lose out.

 

[Jason Wayne]

Hi everyone,

As most of you know I represent Jet Set Marketing, the company that handles marketing and affiliate management for Paradise 8 and Cocoa Casino (Two of the very first Rival White Labels).

I've been following this post (and others like it) for a while now. First of all I would like to say that although there are always going to be rumors flying around, I appreciate those of you who are actually addressing the facts on the forums and not merely propagating unfounded speculation.

I don't want to speak badly about any person, group or casino here, I merely want to state the facts as far as our casinos are concerned.

There is no doubt that between Nov and Feb processor seizures were a major blow for all Rival white labels. These seizures caused problems for not just Rival but many of the top gaming groups. This said, there was never a time that our respective casinos were ever in any danger of closing up or folding as some of the newer white labels have unfortunately done.

I won't speculate as to why some of the newer Rival white label casinos have shut down operations but I can say in all honestly that we have never even been close to a place where we had to discuss shutting down. We have always tried to be as honest and straight forward as possible, paying players and affiliates on time and we will continue to be resilient because of how we run our business.

Please don't lump all white label casinos into the same group. The only thing that we have in common with other Rival white labels is our processing and support. Although both have admittedly had some hiccups (as have most at one point or another ) I have confidence that they will continue to function strongly for those casinos who manage themselves properly.

Paradise 8 and Cocoa Casino have been here since the beginning (being Rival launch customers) and are not going anywhere. We will continue to pay our affiliates and players on time and conduct ourselves in the way we always have, with fairness and honesty.

I don't get to post on the forums quite as much as I'd like to but I'm always available to contact via email which I check daily. You can reach me at any time at jason@thejetsetlife.com.

Jason

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Thank you Andy, that's all I was looking for...

Straight talk.
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[TheGamblingGuru]

Hi everyone,

As most of you know I represent Jet Set Marketing, the company that handles marketing and affiliate management for Paradise 8 and Cocoa Casino (Two of the very first Rival White Labels).

I've been following this post (and others like it) for a while now. First of all I would like to say that although there are always going to be rumors flying around, I appreciate those of you who are actually addressing the facts on the forums and not merely propagating unfounded speculation.

I don't want to speak badly about any person, group or casino here, I merely want to state the facts as far as our casinos are concerned.

There is no doubt that between Nov and Feb processor seizures were a major blow for all Rival white labels. These seizures caused problems for not just Rival but many of the top gaming groups. This said, there was never a time that our respective casinos were ever in any danger of closing up or folding as some of the newer white labels have unfortunately done.

I won't speculate as to why some of the newer Rival white label casinos have shut down operations but I can say in all honestly that we have never even been close to a place where we had to discuss shutting down. We have always tried to be as honest and straight forward as possible, paying players and affiliates on time and we will continue to be resilient because of how we run our business.

Please don't lump all white label casinos into the same group. The only thing that we have in common with other Rival white labels is our processing and support. Although both have admittedly had some hiccups (as have most at one point or another ) I have confidence that they will continue to function strongly for those casinos who manage themselves properly.

Paradise 8 and Cocoa Casino have been here since the beginning (being Rival launch customers) and are not going anywhere. We will continue to pay our affiliates and players on time and conduct ourselves in the way we always have, with fairness and honesty.

I don't get to post on the forums quite as much as I'd like to but I'm always available to contact via email which I check daily. You can reach me at any time at jason@thejetsetlife.com.

Jason

Exactly Jason and that very point was part of my post I posted HERE as you can see in the post below.

Thanks for responding here Jason.

On another note Bailey stated in his newsletter that:

"These closures are not stemming from operator level issues; they are generated by the way Rival is set up."

If that were true then how does one explain the fact that the 400 Group has been around since the beginning with nary a scare of the same fate here? Not saying they won't go belly up, but in that same regard a 4 year record in this business for a new software start-up is not a bad record IMO!
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[Jason Wayne]

Thanks Guru, ya,

You were one of the ones I was talking about when I thanked those of you who are just addressing the facts

J

 

[Engineer]

Would you guys be sitting idly by if the same "Rogue List" had happened with MG, RTG or Playtech?

If they shared the same centralized support, and if the centralized support was behaving similarly to Rival's support -- which has been generating numerous player complaints for the last few months -- then yes.

 

[Engineer]

The only thing that we have in common with other Rival white labels is our processing and support.

...which is the exact reason all Rival white label are on CM's "not recommended" list.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

"Would you guys be sitting idly by if the same "Rogue List" had happened with MG, RTG or Playtech?"

If they shared the same centralized support, and if the centralized support was behaving similarly to Rival's support -- which has been generating numerous player complaints for the last few months -- then yes.

Even when this action of Baileys above could in-fact cause a ripple effect that would be devastating to an entire software group including the NON-WHITE LABELS. ?.....???
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[TheGamblingGuru]

Also remember Baileys last comment there on the Rival Rogue page where he said:

"We recommend to everyone (players and affiliates) stay away from these casinos until the smoke has cleared:"

If that happens and most all players and affiliates actually do take that advice then it will not only be '5 white labels' that have previously folded.... but every single one of them will have to fold then...think about it. By the time whatever smoke that Bailey is specifically talking about here has cleared then it will be too late for those Rival Casinos to recover.

Gotta think outside the box a little more guys, IMHO..
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[Engineer]

That's just speculation on your part (no offense).

My own speculation is that I think the non-white labels will be just fine. If Rival goes bust, the non-white labels will probably switch to RTG or Vegas Tech or some other software. Maybe Wizard Gaming will be an attractive option in a few months; maybe Microgaming USA will be an option. Or perhaps another software company will buy Rival and keep it running as its own company, like Playtech did with Virtue Fusion earlier this year.

I also think that this issue might light a fire under Rival's ass. Who knows -- if they work really hard, they could have outstanding support and processing in a few months.

</speculation>

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

That's just speculation on your part (no offense).

My own speculation is that I think the non-white labels will be just fine. If Rival goes bust, the non-white labels will probably switch to RTG or Vegas Tech or some other software. Maybe Wizard Gaming will be an attractive option in a few months; maybe Microgaming USA will be an option. Or perhaps another software company will buy Rival and keep it running as its own company, like Playtech did with Virtue Fusion earlier this year.

I also think that this issue might light a fire under Rival's ass. Who knows -- if they work really hard, they could have outstanding support and processing in a few months.

</speculation>

Of course it's 'speculation' (but a very real possibility) just the same as Bailey was speculating with his statement here:

"At press time (30 June 2010), it seems that many of the white lables are either folding or being taken over by the software provider."

So is it...Many or a Few....considering the size of the list?

Semantics maybe, but considering the effects this could POTENTIALLY Have, I think the facts should be laid out straight.
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[TheGamblingGuru]

On another note regarding 'white labels', I have a question here:

Since the Casino Rewards Group has a stable of approx. 23 Casino & Poker Rooms, can anyone here factually state that they too do not use a similar centralized support system and payment processors for those 23 properties?

We do know that they use a centralized type of "Loyalty Scheme".

And does anyone know for a fact that some of those 23 or so properties are not owned by different individuals?
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[Jason Wayne]

...which is the exact reason all Rival white label are on CM's "not recommended" list.

Engineer,

If you have specific examples of where Rival's support has caused an unwarranted issue for a player at either Paradise 8 or Cocoa Casino that has not been quickly resolved by our support staff ...or a processing issue where an affiliate or player has not been paid please bring it to me. If not, your blanket statements hold little weight.

I'm not picking on you but your post is the most recent that I've seen of this nature. If anyone has a specific issue with Rival's processing or Support regarding either Paradise 8 or Cocoa Casino please contact me. It's in our interest to make sure these things are taken care of just as much as it's in the interest of our affiliates.

 

[Engineer]

No, I don't have any examples, sorry. Bryan said that his forum was "besieged with complaints." Are we thinking that maybe he overstated the number of complaints here or something?

If the problem is with the support, and if other casinos use the same support, why should these casinos not be on the list? Sooner or later, someone will experience the poor support, won't they?

If Cocoa and Paradise8 don't use the centralized support that Bryan has a problem with, or if there is some other measurable thing that makes your casinos different from the others, you should let him know, IMO.

 

[GFPC]

Thanks guys for helping me out a bit on this. So many posts to go through.

Currently i have these affiliate programs that push Rival.

SlotoCash
BetUSCasino
Lion Slots
Slots of Fortune
400 Affiliates
Planet 23

I know the first two (in red) are considered ok. What of the others?

S

 

[dominique]

GFPC, at this time I see no problem with any of them, but I do think one needs to be vigilant and stay up to date as far as developments there.

Rival has some weird policies in force that ban players on criteria I do not understand.

Also, policies that reduce amounts that players are allowed to deposit that make no sense to me.

Also, processing issues that keep coming.

None of the above are transparent, so who knows what the rational is. But I do know that my players who normally make large deposits and play regularly, make small ones at Rival and play occasionally or disappear.

That's just a general observation from one affiliate's point of view.

Then we have a number of them going under.

So, regardless of who says what, (all of which is speculation, since none of the issues are transparent) I am keeping my eyes and ears very open and quickly react if I see or hear of more issues.

Re. Bryan and his rogue list :

I don't always agree on all the listings myself, some he lists I do not, some I list he does not. Everyone needs to go on the feedback their own players give and the facts they can ascertain.

Bryans list is taken into consideration at AGD because it is one of the most authoritative and well kept one. AGD does not base decisions on it, it is one of many factors taken into consideration. AGD is here primarily for affiliates and their contracts, but we do like to take players into consideration also. Since it is time consuming enough to keep track of all the affiliate programs, we picked one player blacklist to pull into the mix of considerations.

Bryan talks a lot with operators, and you really have no idea what tidbits of gleaned information contribute to his decisions. He would be a fool to always publish these tidbits, because no operator would speak with him after that. So second guessing his decisions goes nowhere. You do not now nor will you ever know all the components that make up his decisions. And that is a necessary byproduct if one is going to get things from the horse's (operator's) mouth.

I think we have better things to do here than to try to analyse a decision process of another entity, since we don't know anything about it. It is simply one of many criteria we look at.

Last not least, Andy mentioned above that a new, player oriented system is in the works. So perhaps you want to hold your horses until that makes it's debut, which should be very soon.

 

[GFPC]

Hey Dom,

Thanks so much for the education and advice. It has helped me allot.

Have I ever told you that you are the best?

Your the best!!!;D

 

[Best Pay Partners]

wow... just seen this thread, not really had time to read all 6 pages yet

But I would like to say that I think it is a little unfair to be classing all white labels together,

Both 21 Grand Casino and Supreme Play have there own in house 24/7, support in English, French and German, who are all very knowledgeable, professional and friendly, available on live chat and on the phone.

There have been the processing problems due to the visa issue, which we are personnaly working on to find an answer to.

We also know and accept AGD to be a fair website, and have been a great user and follower, but we feel that it is not fair for 21 Grand Casino and Supreme Play to be on here as we do match the full criteria of a white label casino.

 

[Best Pay Partners]

wow... just seen this thread, not really had time to read all 6 pages yet

But I would like to say that I think it is a little unfair to be classing all white labels together,

Both 21 Grand Casino and Supreme Play have there own in house 24/7, support in English, French and German, who are all very knowledgeable, professional and friendly, available on live chat and on the phone.

There have been the processing problems due to the visa issue, which we are personnaly working on to find an answer to.

We also know and accept AGD to be a fair website, and have been a great user and follower, but we feel that it is not fair for 21 Grand Casino and Supreme Play to be on here as we do match the full criteria of a white label casino.