Your Lied To - What would u do?

[arkyt]

Sadly I dont think it would matter what you did ... if a program lied to you / screwed you or any of us - what recourse would you/we have?

Seriously - if any program decides to pull a GP on affiliates - we are at their mercy - we cant do a damn thing about it and they know it - thats why IMO cheating is so high these days!

 

[bb1webs]

we cant do a damn thing about it and they know it

I beg to disagree sir.

What should be said is; we choose to not do a damn thing about it.

As affs, as long as we hold the keys to whether a program is successful or not, by that I mean as long as we still have control of a large portion of the traffic, we can do a lot.

We choose, to not find a way to work together, and attack using the very tools that make us attractive in the first place.

GP is best example. There nobody stood to lose anything by us taking a full out blitz approach to condemning them, and instead, (which category do you fit it?) some of us made effort to create some blacklist pages, others did nothing at all.

Even the effort made, was a poor one in comparison to what we should have done, which is everyone adopt a uniform banner (so this says to the reader when they see it on several sites, that it is an industry-wide condemnation - without any doubt) and beat the message home for a week, better would be two weeks by giving it an excellent spot on the first page of our sites.


We affiliates, prove to be almost as bad in respect to short-sighted, as those who cheat us. Sometimes you have to finish the hunt, to get the message across. and we've never come close to what i would call finishing the hunt.

 

[arkyt]

we choose to not do a damn thing about it.

... others did nothing at all.

.... Sometimes you have to finish the hunt, to get the message across. and we've never come close to what i would call finishing the hunt.

Theres lies the problem - the majority are not here to secure a future - they are out to get what they can while the getting is good. The majority couldnt care less about how you or I or others do with a program that we think is crooked - as long as the individual is making money they are fine with any wrongs we suffer.

Weve never had any wide spread unity and we never will.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Hey Dave any update? Both polls, here and at the gpwa, had the same results. Go Public.

To make sure all my ducks are in a row, I decided to give everything I have to someone to go over all the facts and info JUST to make sure it's all correct.

When that's completed I then have to decide where to blow the whistle.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Daera]

To make sure all my ducks are in a row, I decided to give everything I have to someone to go over all the facts and info JUST to make sure it's all correct.

When that's completed I then have to decide where to blow the whistle.


Cheers



Dave

Hi Dave,

Things like this are touchy.

At the beginning of this thread, some said to go public IF you're 100% sure. But 100% sure of what, that there was a lie told? Or that some deeper wrong doings actually happened, costing you $$?

I can tell you that I've probably been lied to by most programs over the years to some degree (not all). Some big lies (like GP), some not. It could be just something misworded that sounds like a lie to me, when it wasn't intended that way. Sometimes new programs lie to try and gain our trust to recruit us. IMO, this industry is pretty much full of lies.

I'm the kind of person that prefers to hash out my problems directly and privately. I find it easier to resolve that way, especially if it was just a misunderstanding or an oversight. If I had facts that a program wronged me intentionally, not just a lie but actually did an injustice to me and my earnings, and not willing to make it right, I'd definitely make it public. But I'd have to be sure that it wasn't just a lie told, but an injustice done to cheat me. I've had suspicions about things in the past that I would never be able to prove 100%, so decided to move on.

I think that having someone else look over your findings was a good move on your part. Hopefully someone experienced in these matters, with good judgement.

I hope things work out as they should.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Hi Dave,

Things like this are touchy.

At the beginning of this thread, some said to go public IF you're 100% sure. But 100% sure of what, that there was a lie told? Or that some deeper wrong doings actually happened, costing you $$?

I can tell you that I've probably been lied to by most programs over the years to some degree (not all). Some big lies (like GP), some not. It could be just something misworded that sounds like a lie to me, when it wasn't intended that way. Sometimes new programs lie to try and gain our trust to recruit us. IMO, this industry is pretty much full of lies.

I'm the kind of person that prefers to hash out my problems directly and privately. I find it easier to resolve that way, especially if it was just a misunderstanding or an oversight. If I had facts that a program wronged me intentionally, not just a lie but actually did an injustice to me and my earnings, and not willing to make it right, I'd defiitely make it public. But I'd have to be sure that it wasn't just a lie told, but an injustice done to cheat me. I've had suspicions about things in the past that I would never be able to prove 100%, so decided to move on.

I think that having someone else look over your findings was a good move on your part. Hopefully someone experienced in these matters, with good judgement.

I hope things work out as they should.

Hi Daera,

I agree the industry has its fair share of semantic BS. Though it seems life in general (these days) is swart with a lot of puffery instead of just telling it like it is.

If this was just about being feed BS, I wouldn't bother.

However the lie and further untruths have been used in what is clearly an attempt to deflect connection. Which comes down to loss of income through unethical manipulation of tagged players, data and probably less than honourable marketing strategies.

I've approached the party(s) directly via email seven (7) weeks ago. Even with evidence they've chosen to evade answering direct questions. Instead, and even up to a few days ago, are using justifications & excuses for what is not possible given the circumstances.

With the latest email received, it would give me no greater pleasure than to blow the whistle on this matter and open it up to be scrutinised publicly. However I have to bite my tongue and allow time for this friend to fine tooth comb all the evidence I've given them. Only at that point can I make a clear judgement call.

I'm sorry this sounds all cloak and dagger stuff but I really need to make sure all my i's are dotted and t's crossed.


Cheers



Dave

 

[bb1webs]

Actually these days and times, I think that is the norm, not the odd, to take the approach you're taking.

......

I agree with what you said Bryan, but using GP as an example, there was one where nobody stood to lose, and we had the perfect lamb to bring to slaughter, and we didn't do it right. Hell we barely did anything at all IMHO.

I still am amazed at the lack of foresight shown by what are obviously otherwise very smart people, when not more of an aggressive effort was made to thwart GP. People that had nothing to lose, (not that it mattered in the end because everybody lost), but anyway those who knew for certain they had nothing involved, should have been the ones knocking people over to get to the dirty work of blacklisting GP in a much more serious manner than was done. Instead they didn't even seem to show up.

What an opportunity missed!

I will always feel that was a big turning point, where if we would have hounded them will all the aff's reach: every website posting a uniformed warning banner about their casinos, and set an example not easily forgotten, that we wouldn't have near the BS after that : which we have had to endure.

Because its obvious they watch what is going on and will if allowed, fall into line one after the other to take yet another part of money the affs have rightfully earned. That works the other way too however. If we could only work together enough to make a credible stand, much of the BS will stop.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

I will always feel that was a big turning point, where if we would have hounded them will all the aff's reach: every website posting a uniformed warning banner about their casinos, and set an example not easily forgotten, that we wouldn't have near the BS after that : which we have had to endure.

Because its obvious they watch what is going on and will if allowed, fall into line one after the other to take yet another part of money the affs have rightfully earned. That works the other way too however. If we could only work together enough to make a credible stand, much of the BS will stop.

Hi Steve,

You know I couldn't agree more with you.

If we as affiliates can find the strength within our similarities by embracing a "one for all, all for one" unity, this IMO is how we will stop the stealing of our income in its tracks.

The times we've all stood back to back and side to side on issues are proof that this can work. Although I release sacrifice does usually play a part in taking action. I don't know about you but I'd rather lose a little now that know I'm getting shafted left right and center down the road.

I do believe what Steve is suggesting holds merit.
Frankly, if nothing changes nothing changes.

If we don't unite and send a clear message to programs that try to screw us or our affiliate peers over, we merely sending a message saying it's ok to steal our income.

I can guarantee we'd only need to stand up to a couple of wayward programs with a united gusto and the others will fall into line pretty quickly.


Cheers



Dave

 

[gabriel_LCP]

All of the above sounds good to me!

 

[bb1webs]

I can guarantee we'd only need to stand up to a couple of wayward programs

I will second that guarantee.

When affs don't make the sort of effort necessary (as we've discussed here) to protect their income by having the savvy to recognize an example made at not cost is a lot better than one which is paid for with lost rev share and the disappearance of a career's accumulation of players -

We're no better/smarter than the ones we condemn for not having the foresight to see that honoring their word not only buys a reputation that otherwise is unobtainable at any price but also ... that without us, they wouldn't be no where near where they are now, so (insert the duh smilie here) maybe its a smarter move to keep those who lifted you to the current heights ... in same spots because what they fail miserably to recognize is that just because the people who were supplying a lot of players - are not now - doesn't mean it will always be that way.

We're all still here for a reason and that reason is we have adapted to the changing tides and found a way to stay afloat, which is a hell of a lot better head start than we had when we were newbies yet we succeeded (somehow) with almost no knowledge (in comparison to where we are now) and it can be argued that these times are much harder, but if you remember when you first started out, the prospect of getting any traffic and more so, any real players, seemed a lot more intimidating than the hurdles we currently face now as seasoned veterans.

So if we've been clever enough to find a way to still be here now, surely we can find a way to get something going to protect our way of life in more efficient fashion than we have now.

I think one thing that would help a lot is if you know of a peer who is avoiding the forums because of things that happened in the past, get off your bottom and encourage frequently, for them to go to any one of the forums we all hang out.

Because we need people to be aware and available enough- so that if the church bells start ringing and its not sunday, ... to not only recognize there is trouble, but also have some sort of an idea how and where to congregate for discussion to formulate a plan of action which is one that shows a very united front across all affiliates.

I'm very confident that if all of us were to agree to run the same 125x125 banner (just throwing that out as example) and place it in say the upper left corner of all our sites, that is going to send an extremely strong message to the players when they see that same warning on a bunch of portals in the same spot.

------------

One quick example, then I'll shut up.

Remember the old tornado warnings from back in the 70s and 80s? all the tv channels (all 3 of them) , had a different version of a warning which came on, some more intimidating than others, but anyway, now think about how you see such warnings these days? At least for myself, I get a uniform warning marquee that comes across the tv, no matter which of the 1950+ channels you are watching (1900 are infomercials but that's for another day's discussion)

And I take that much more seriously and attach much more credibility to it, than I ever did to seeing on channel 1, a picture of a tornado, channel 2 would have big letters stating "WEATHER BULLETIN" and channel 3 which would have a little beeping sound that announced itself every 2 minutes combined with a marquee running across the bottom of the screen stating take cover and stay tuned!

Does that better illustrate why I am so pressing for a uniform approach - if we ever face another GP?

That's the method behind my madness. To me it seems it will make a lot of difference, I guess mostly because if not; then what? I know we hold the power, so if that's not the answer then its there, but still uncovered.