Why Affiliates Distrust Affiliate Programs!

Discussion in 'General Casino Affiliate Area' started by bonustreak, Dec 3, 2015.

  1.  
    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Martyn September 1st, 2010

    I will send the request to RTG to remove the affiliate tag from your account and explain the reasoning, all should be fine with that.
     
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    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    My incident happened 7 or 8 years previously & not with AE. Maybe detagging players was happening a LOT and RTG put a stop to it ;)
     
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    yes, I thought the same thing.
     
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    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    Yes, I'm pretty sure this can be done.
    One time for sure it happened for me was with a Rival casino. Now I trust the Rival back-end probably more that any other software's in house system, but when I posted a link on a forum (with permission) about 5 years ago, I had all these members saying they had joined up, but they didn't appear in my stats!
    I honest believe this was a genuine glitch, as I had never any reason to doubt their system before or since.
    Anyway, long story short, I contacted the casino who got on to Rival. Now they could not identify the untagged members who had clicked the link, so what they did was assign to my account an agreed number of random players who had signed-up WITHOUT clicking through an affiliate link.
    If they can add them, you can be sure they can take them away too - if there is good reason.

    KK
     
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    RyanWeb

    RyanWeb Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Aw yes, I have requested that a player be untagged from RTG and they reset my account earnings to zero when I was deeply in the red with a NCO program. The last time I had requested this was maybe a year or two ago..
     
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    casinobonusguy

    casinobonusguy Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    We still do our own testing but we keep our findings to ourselves.Why you ask?well in past we just got too much crap from our peers who could not believe what we found and tried to make excuses as to why in some cases less than 60% tracked.As for RTG and 'Detagging' one of the ex RTG managers told me once that the casinos can set a level to flip to house tags ,meaning i guess they can flip the big players over .I don't know if this is true but would make sense as to why some rtg make 1% of what others do .I follow a simple rule after 11 years as affiliate if program A makes me (insert your average revshare here) then I try program B In that spot for 3-6 months they should perform similar if they are on same software ,similar promos.After a while doing these tests you can figure out who are doing the shaving or whatever you may call it that is politically correct.
     
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    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I've been told by the previous owner of a white label Playtech that the shaving tools in there (he was not supposed to see) are elaborate. Including shave affiliate X at various % at various times.... I am married to an affiliate manager. This stuff is rampant. Ghost accounts (All the stuff Leopold mentioned is 100% true) In my opinion you have to create a pro-active system (algorithm) on your side that lists and ranks your programs based on various metrics that are updated instantly and automatically. Thing we use are "Revenue per click ratio, Sales per click ratio, did they pay last month (how about the last two months) you get to third month and you won't find yourself on our site. Did they pay before the 10th. etc... (we have software to enter our monthly numbers, and we do) ... You need to fine tune this to use the numbers of the current month, the previous month, average of last three months, and twelve months. Create various metrics (positive and negative for generating a score and then rank according to score). If you are elaborate enough you can automatically detect when processing is down and other various non-slimey/legitimate things that also can effect your revenue. (dont forget to give a penalty for NCO, bundling, etc) divide program by number of casinos, etc...
     
  8.  
    cassaon888

    cassaon888 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Hi All,

    Christine, thanks a bunch for posting the article I've written to be honest it was a pleasant surprise. A big thank you to the community for sharing their ideas as well.

    One way or the other every single affiliate has a story to tell be it de-tagging of high value players, not reporting the true stats, shaving commissions, the list can go on and on.

    I know someone personally who dealt specifically with player data bases (this was way back in 2003), he wanted me to buy one off him for $5k. I refused outright since I saw it as highly unethical and I wasn't interested in the industry back then. Suffice it to say this has been going on for a very long time and had I stepped over to the 'dark side' I would have been a very wealthy man by now.

    As affiliates we're extremely vulnerable, even if we have undeniable proof that programs are stealing from us there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. Although blacklisting is a good way to tarnish an unscrupulous operator's image-to me it's like diagnosing a cold but not eradicating it. The owners simply 'kill off' the site and hop on to the next project-mission accomplished! The industry is rife with money laundering, chequered individuals and criminal activity that boggles my mind.

    It's reached a stage where I see the top jurisdictions (Alderney, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Malta and UK) simply as lip service and hot air. I'll most probably receive a lot of flack for making such a bold statement but I don't care-it's the truth. They forget one fundamental aspect and I call it the ''affiliate factor''. Why? Well, many operators run their own portals and siphon the players affiliates referred off to their own network, it's a grey area and a very bad one at that. It can lead to money laundering and most probably other kinds off illicit activities as well. If operators are licensed in these jurisdictions they must investigate whether or not they run their own portals. If they run their own portals they should not be issued with a license since it's unethical.

    Although the operator side of things in white listed jurisdictions are top-notch the affiliate side of things is not good. Why don't the jurisdiction acknowledge us? How many Malta-based operators' affiliate programs have been guilty of unethical dealings over the years and absolutely nothing happened to them. If we were not that important, why are our Inboxes for ever cluttered with offers from programs to join them?

    I even contacted NetEnt (Per Eriksson) and requested that they furnish us with the original stats. I think very highly of this vendor maybe my Swedish heritage has something to do with it. Any way, I hoped that the software provider would have led from the front and said they'll investigates it. I even included links to GPWA about previous discussions of shaving outlining how vulnerable we're really are. Instead I received a rather terse response which bordered on a resounding no.

    I propose the following to safeguard our interest:

    1. When casino owners apply for a license in white-listed jurisdiction they must undergo a polygraph test. The test is there to ascertain if they've been involved in any illegal activities before: criminal record, money laundering, dealing in player data bases, owning their own portals etc.

    2. Jurisdictions must acknowledge us. There must be a registered affiliate body in each jurisdiction. Affiliates will pay an annual membership fee. The role of the affiliate body will be to sue/expose any dodgy program. Obviously legal officials (attorneys) have to be on board too. The funds from the membership fees will be used to pay a legal firm an annual retainer.

    3. Last but not least. The vendors must provide us with the stats reports so that we can compare it with the affiliate programs'.

    For what it's worth a South African bloke (Casino South Africa) started a thread over at GPWA a few years ago as usual nothing came of it.

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
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  9.  
    cassaon888

    cassaon888 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Very good idea. It would be even more interesting if you had say $5000 to give each volunteer. High-value players tend to disappear from affiliate accounts for no rhyme or reason.:(
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Agreed with the $5k. In fact, when I looked into doing this years ago (and charging casinos for this type of certification - because we simply can't afford it) - the price would have been approximately $35k for first phase evaluation and at least $10k/year to continue testing. It is a very expensive proposition because they are not going to be skimming $50 - 2-5 time depositors. They want the guy who comes in and deposits $1k or more. Those are the players that are skimmed. To do this process and do it well you would need 5-10 players depositing $1k (not exactly, has to be varied) multiple times. Some in quick succession to look like a true high-roller.. some over each month as if they play at multiple casinos. it's a lot of work and money.
     
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  11.  
    cassaon888

    cassaon888 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Thanks. This has been the ongoing debate all along, the removing of high rollers from affiliates' accounts. Affiliate programs guilty of this have drummed up every conceivable excuse in the book (player self-excluded, player stopped playing and so forth) to justify the 'skimming'.
     
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    How do programs know you don't personally know the high roller?
     
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    FreePoker

    FreePoker Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I haven't had that happen to me yet, but I some of my other friends have had one or two of their big spenders taken off, which drastically reduced their monthly rev share payout. They are pissed, and have even closed their accounts there and blacklisted them. It doesn't seem to matter how many sites blacklist a casino, I always find reviews praising them.
     
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    cassaon888

    cassaon888 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    An ex-affiliate manager just made a comment to the article I wrote. This is what he had to say:

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I think it could easily start from a platform like Netrefer. All we need is a stats provider that requires all information and has an API for us to openly access. Then we simply don't use any program that does not use that platform. Make them tie direct integration from the platform to the casino software itself.. I'm sure it can be this simple technology-wise. How can we FORCE these programs into transparency?
     
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    RyanWeb

    RyanWeb Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Your the AffiliateGuardDog... If someone could really come up with a program like that, one that could actually tie into every program, you would have to make it so only the programs that cooperate are certified, and we would all have to follow (Drop non certified programs).

    When you put it like: "non-certified programs are against transparency, and therefore are likely to be stealing your earnings..".. It makes sense to drop them.
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Exactly. But how to proceed? How to get programs to adopt it?
     
  18.  
    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    We are onto something here guys we need to come together an develop something. I am in! We need more affiliates to back this up, it is time to stop talking about it and to just do it!!
     
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  19.  
    AE-Martyn

    AE-Martyn Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi all, sorry for butting in on this one. Just heard my name was mentioned so thought I'd add in my 2 cents and to put a little clarity on this one from an AE perspective.

    We personally cannot remap or de-tag a player and nor do we fudge with numbers to reduce affiliate commissions. Regards the de-tagging of a winning player as in this example, it is an option that we've given affiliates in the past to help clear a big hole due to a big win. For this to happen, we always ask the affiliate to confirm their request in writing by email. It's never done in an underhand way and it's explained clearly to the affiliate before it's done. We then forward this request from the affiliate to RTG to complete. That's where it ends.

    There are probably affiliates here that can vouch for this scenario mentioned above and I hope they felt we dealt with it in an open and honest manner.

    We want the best for our affiliates/business partners and we fully believe that we are the most honest program and group of casinos online (by this I'm not saying others are dishonest, just speaking about AE and Brands). However we fully understand and appreciate why there are trust issues in this industry.
     
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  20.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 17 years & still going!

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    I doubt anyone could say either yourself Martyn or AE et al are anything but ethical and above board.
    Unfortunately though not all programs are honest nor are all RTG casinos.
     

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