Rival Suspensions/Bannings - Thoughts?

[Bonus Paradise]

ok yeah, got it now
for all the programs I have posted
the ratio for susp and band is 3,95 %

okies before I go to bed here are some numbers
I am posting the few programs I checked,
I find it easy to compare hope this is ok.

Report for year 2009 – clicked to report player deposit summary
this stats are taken for ALL active players.

I have been surprised to not see more suspended or banned,
find the numbers not high.

Most active players at Vegas Regal
and then in order down,

REGAL AFFILIATES
DEAC: 1 - USA
BAND: 2 – 1 USA and 1 Finland
SUSP: 9 – 1 Canada – 4 USA – 1 Germany – 1 Netherlands – 2 Poland

SLOTOCASH
BAND: 1
SUSP: 2

PANTASIA GROUP
BAND: 1 - USA
SUSP: 11 – 3 Canada – 7 USA – 1 Germany

400 AFF GROUP
DA VINCIS GOLD
BAND: 0
SUSP: 8 – 1 Canada – 3 USA – 3 Germany - 1Austria

THIS IS VEGAS
BAND: 1 - USA
SUSP: 9 – 1 Canada – 2 USA – 2 Germany – 1 Austria – 2 Italy – 1 Poland

COCOA
BAND: 0
SUSP: 6 – 2 Canada – 3 USA – 1 Germany

PARADISE8
BAND: 0
SUSP: 2 – both from Germany

 

[Engineer]

A couple questions for Nicholas or another Rival rep who happens to see this:

What does the code "DEAC" mean? I assume it's short for "deactivated," but how would that come about?

Also, if someone opted out due to a gambling addition, would that account be labeled as "BAND" or something else?

 

[Nicolas-Johnson]

exactly and...

A couple questions for Nicholas or another Rival rep who happens to see this:

What does the code "DEAC" mean? I assume it's short for "deactivated," but how would that come about?

Also, if someone opted out due to a gambling addition, would that account be labeled as "BAND" or something else?

That is exactly right. It is also done when a player has multiple sign ups, and we just want to close one of his accounts instead of banning it. There might be a couple of other reasons for deactivation, I'll try to find out if/what they are.

P.S. If you do sign up, be sure to contact me so we can give your players a special bonus.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson

 

[greek39]

Might change in the future but I don’t really put any weight behind Rival. Likely because they are relatively new and not well rooted yet.

However, for accounts being suspended I discovered one from the United States. The sign up date November 11, 2008 suspension date April 4, 2009. I have no idea as to why?

Lately my earnings have dropped considerably and feel good I never 100% percent committed myself.

greek39

 

[bonustreak]

It is clear that most these rivals need to stop using the lazy standard user ban and take this serious! There are good depositing players being banned for no good reason. It is clear this company as a whole is losing money daily due to the lack of knowledge of these fresh casino owners knowing how to perform as an operator! Most are ex affiliate managers going out on new ventures. They clearly need to take classes in player retention as well. Tossing bonus after bonus is not doing anyone of us any good!!

400 and Sloto I make crap with anymore when those 2 brands use to be there up on top for me!!

It would be nice to see other operators other then Vegas Regal and Box 24 jump in here and if you don't want to then it looks like these 2 brands can get my exposure from now on because I am done working with programs that don't give a crap about affiliates!

 

[greek39]

Who knows bonustreak? These sorts of questionable practices seem to be all too common nowadays. So this starter page I have been working on has taken me a fair bit of time, content is ready, seo complete and is w3c compliant too boot. I reserved four spots one Micro, RTG, Playtech, and Rival. All must have a online presence for ten years or greater and be in good standings with players.

Needless to say …a week later pondering, researching Rival is out. They simple do not meet my T&C’s lol. I want to try a minimize risk having long-term growth instead short term growth.

I know this is not easy on some of you who heavily promoted Rival brands but IMO, like I always say, “When in doubt get out”. No sense taking unnecessary risks when there are more reputable brands to market.

As stated earlier I never put my full weight behind Rival and for good reason. I had short-term good earnings then nothing and am confident my earnings will remain nothing in the long run as well.

Rival cannot sub-stain itself in the long run because player retention is dismal.

JMO

greek39

 

[inspiration]

My biggest depositor was banned at Vegas Regal, but.......as far as I can digg in my brains (getting older by the minute) it was for player protection. The player asked for being banned because of private reasons, the casino acted according to player wishes.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

That is exactly right. It is also done when a player has multiple sign ups, and we just want to close one of his accounts instead of banning it. There might be a couple of other reasons for deactivation, I'll try to find out if/what they are.

P.S. If you do sign up, be sure to contact me so we can give your players a special bonus.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson

Nicolas, what is the main difference in "SUSP" verses "Ban" ?

I see several of my players who were large depositors from Norway for a couple of months being both suspended and banned at a few Rival casinos. They also had a couple of cash-ins as well. I was making some decent commissions off of these players too before they were suspended and banned.
____
____

 

[inspiration]

I know this is not easy on some of you who heavily promoted Rival brands but IMO, like I always say, “When in doubt get out”. No sense taking unnecessary risks when there are more reputable brands to market.

As stated earlier I never put my full weight behind Rival and for good reason. I had short-term good earnings then nothing and am confident my earnings will remain nothing in the long run as well.

Rival cannot sub-stain itself in the long run because player retention is dismal.

No it is not easy to just delete the rival brands on my site because they still perform better than most other programs I have.

I have seen short term and long term gains as far as I can remember with ALL programs so putting them down is not fair.

I do not agree for player retention I have signups in 2007 still playing, can not say this for most micros, playtechs etc.

I would love to hear your strategy for "repuatable brands" I can promote for the long term........if there is any way you can promise me they won't bust........there is NO guarantee........just some proof on the boards.

 

[rubyroyal]

Hi all,

An interesting discussion indeed. I just want to highlight our policy on player banning, suspension and bonus banning.

1) Chargeback's and fraudulent accounts form part of a global negative database which we subscribe to. Any customer seen to be fraudulent or that performs a chargeback at one Rival casino will be banned at Ruby Royal. This is the ONLY rule we adhere to in terms of the automatic global policy within Rival, the rest are our own policies that we define and control and each individual player is dealt with separately.

2) We manually review each account looking for duplicates, if duplicates are found we contact the customer informing them that the dup account will be closed and they will be able to use their original account they signed up with. Duplicate accounts are widespread, especially with the casino offering ND bonuses. The viability of continuing to offer ND bonuses is being investigated at Ruby and we will make a call on this in the coming weeks.

3) There are a number of instances where customers request their account be suspended due to problem gambling. This is strictly adhered to on our behalf once we receive confirmation in writing from the player.

4) Bonus banning is only done in EXTREME cases. Without going into too much detail about our policies, we profile each customer based on their life time playing/spending pattern.

5) It's likely that other aff programs do not provide the same level of data about each customer that the Rival affiliate system does i.e. you are only shown the data that they want you to see and its difficult to determine whether a player was in fact banned or suspended

If you are seeing any issues on your affiliate account t Ruby please PM and i will investigate further.

Thx

Derek

 

[Daera]

Some of the suspensions are understandable due to the change in restrictions to not allow players from Canada any longer.

Looking at my Rivals, I see quite a few suspends that came from Canada and I don't think that should be included as we know players from Canada can no longer play at Rival Casinos.

Otherwise, my suspends/bans aren't looking too bad. I lose my 2 biggest depositers from Pantasia as suspends.......... but both were in Canada. So that explains that.

 

[greek39]

You and I both know there are no guarantees in life generally. The following is an example of a RTG brand most would consider reputable. Current for this month only,

RTG
Clicks: 328
Downloads: 146
Signups: 1
Deposits: $56.00

This goes on month after month having not earned a penny as of yet. I never bother contacting anyone considering my time is better spent elsewhere. Besides I would rather not waste a week figuring it out. I feel very strongly affiliates and programs carry an agreement with no question marks. To conclude, although this RTG is reputable to most for myself it carries unnecessary risk. So I will quietly remove them and throw up Bodog instead, solid, reputable and proved worthy overtime.

In contrast with Rival I was earning consistently for over a year. Then one day without notice whammo nothing. Again instead of pondering and wasting time I simple remove them. I rarely say anything publicly or privately regarding my personal circumstances. Nor do I consider myself slandering Rival just stating my personal experience. Good or bad Rival brands do work, you for example.

In regards to player retention, Rival appears to be having difficulties deciding which countries players should be accepted. They appear to be in transition, undecided, not settled, changing, in essence some would say establishing themselves.

Bare in mind I never tried Regal or Vegas just do not have the time. But if there is something common within this thread we all agree on there are some problems.

Guarddog

Summary: This tells me that I have 22.5% of my players either banned or suspended. That is equivalent to: 1 out of 5 Players BANNED/SUSPENDED From Rival.

Bc158

That's weird. Why did Rival casinos ban so many players? I just don't understand it. They don't like bonus hunters? or These players are frauds? Frauds are usually a few percents. This ratio provided by GuardDOG is too high.

Engineer

Rival wide, about 10.8% of all my players (depositing and non-depositing) have been suspended or banned.

Dentrite
In 2008, out of my top 20 depositors:
1 banned
7 suspended
(5 were from Canada)

In 2009 (so far), out of my top 20 depositors:
3 banned
0 suspended
(no Canadians)

Bonustreak

400 and Sloto I make crap with anymore when those 2 brands use to be there up on top for me!!

Daera

Looking at my Rivals, I see quite a few suspends that came from Canada and I don't think that should be included as we know players from Canada can no longer play at Rival Casinos.

greek39

 

[bonustreak]

I had faith that Ruby would chime in here simply because they have come out of the gates doing everything right!!!;D

 

[SuperiorShare]

Hi Guys,

Quite interesting thread. As some rival reps explained, it all depends on the casino property management.

We don't use Rival banning/suspension system and we were one of the operators insisting on giving us the chance to work things our way for quite a long time. I am glad they listened and its all in our hands now.

We check every single new depositor, every active player and every transaction on a daily basis and we take decisions based on our criteria. As you know, people at Superior including myself, have been around this business for many years and we do trust our knowledge to do the right thing for the player and the affiliate in each case.

What I can tell you is that when a player chargeback it will be automatically banned. Also, we obviously have communication channels open with Rival security team. We listen to their feedback carefully and take the final decision by ourselves.

Regarding retention, we make a meticulous work with players and affiliates. Affiliates working closely with us long term, know we do an excellent and dedicated job.

Lastly, I wish Rival wouldn't be releasing so many casinos every month. Unfortunately, that is the case and I personally don't think this is helping anyone.

My best,

 

[Nicolas-Johnson]

funny you mention that Paul, I think we brought up a deeper issue

Paul, great to hear you here! I actually do like new Rivals to come up. It creates competition, and some of the newer rivals have been off to a pretty good start. This makes it so that each Rival HAS TO stand out in order to distinguish themselves from the competition. No longer can operators simply stand back and adopt standards... we must be innovative in our approach.

In fact, that is a problem that is being well reflected on this thread. Affiliates and players look at Rival as a single entity because of too many similarities between operators. As some affiliates have already discovered, some Rivals are taking positive steps to distinguish themselves.

And those of us that are, I can say, are reaping the rewards. Look at the stats I quote:

Bonus Banned Players 3,31%
Flat out Banned depositors 2,84%

Recurrent depositor 63,11%
Convert No Deposit sign ups to depositors 7,06%. This particular number is much higher, since a lot of sign ups are from multiple account players. Once we take this into consideration, our samples suggest we convert about 10% of all free chip players.

I can tell you this is all because of the good judgment of our management team, as well as the positive reaction players and affiliates alike have had with our decisions. After all, it becomes a vicious cycle, but of the good kind:

1- We satisfy players.
2- Players find us through affiliates.
3- Affiliates are satisfied because players are satisfied.
The more players are satisfied, the more are the affiliates and so forth. It really is a win-win situation.

@ Greeks in regard to:

In regards to player retention, Rival appears to be having difficulties deciding which countries players should be accepted. They appear to be in transition, undecided, not settled, changing, in essence some would say establishing themselves.

We only have one banned country: Canada. We haven't banned or thought of banning any other country. We want to take everyone... but Canada is off limits to us.

We only have one banned game from bonuses: Progressives (and that is because of the high fees we would have to pay on players loosing free money to the machines).

As you can see, we know who we are going for and how: Everyone and by being as generous and un-restrictive as possible.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson

 

[greek39]

No offense intended reps by my comments. These are my personal views however right or wrong they have never let me down.

What I do know is my earnings have slipped consistently to zero. This tells me it's time to move on.

greek39

 

[bonustreak]

Thanks for the reps coming in and after 10hrs of doing audits of my Rival accounts I am more upset with the older Rival casinos then anything. This comes down to the operators and how they use this auto ban system that is in place, do they realize they are hurting themselves and affiliates??

400affiliates I am in SHOCK! I will post these numbers because I need someone to explain to me why at Davinci for example I have since 2006 supposedly brought in 556 players over the last 4yrs BUT in less then a yrs time at Vegas Regal I have sent them 567 players??? Come on people I was not born yesterday!! Someone has been untagging players is my thoughts, only possible reason these numbers are the way they are!!

Start up 2006(NOTE: Canadian players are banned yes but not enough to note!)

Cocoa 265 players /susp 28 5 of them being nice deps/deac1
Davinci 556 players /band 5 all 5 depositors/susp 28 5 are deps/deac4
Paradise8 271 players/band 4 depositors 3/susp 15 5 are deps/deac1
Thisisvegas 333 players/band 3/susp 30 18 are depositors/deac0

Rockbet(same owner as Thisisvegas) 644 players/band 2/susp 12 8 are depositors/ deac 0
(wow and not even a yr old and I sent more players here then thisisvegas which is 6 yrs old)(BS!)


Needless to say I am not happy with this group and exposure will be decreased and given to a brand that can take the time out to care for my depositing players!!

Look at the difference when you have operators that actually are hungry to survive in this business and can take care of players for affiliates!

Vegas Regal 567 players / band 1/ susp 5/ deac 0
Ruby Royal 309 players/ band 1/ susp 4/ deac 0

I could go on and on with my entire list but the alarming point is many of these banded players are good depositors and quite a few are high rollers but they are banned or suspended ( what is the difference please). Many are being banned simply because they have accounts at other Rival casino and that is the ONLY reason, to me that is NOT good enough!!! Rival wake up your killing yourself here and your affiliates along with you!

Get a training session please on how to convert and retain players as well because it is clear most of these brands just have no clue and they are wasting the players we send them!

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Awesome post Bonustreak, wish I could nominate it or something..

Did any Rep explain the difference in "SUSP" vs "Ban" that I asked earlier. I don't think that I read any clear explanation anywhere back thru the last few posts or did I just miss that somewhere?
____
____

 

[Engineer]

Christine, ThisIsVegas and Rockbet were my biggest offenders as well. Most of the overall loss in revenue was caused by suspending several key players at those casinos.

Regarding DaVinci's Gold -- like too many other Rival casinos, the absentee manager there (Jayden) doesn't take this seriously at all. Last I heard, he was running a clothing store, and this "online casino thing" was nothing more than a hobby. In the past, Jayden has been known to lower commission rates without warning (reneging on deals he made), and I always assumed the 400 Group split up mainly because of his shenanigans. My point: probably best to steer clear of DaVinci's Gold until Jayden is fired (or if he's an owner, until he sells his share).

 

[bonustreak]

LOL- Dave that is why I respect you because you tell it like it is! Your right about Jayden and he won't go anywhere since he is the owner of that brand and it is a shame the others cannot get him to go away! He also lowered my agreed upon earnings as well he is a real snake! I had a player win 60k that he tried all he could not to pay including lowering her cashout limit to $500 a week(yeah that was a joke) and after that she was banned at every Rival besides Ruby and Vegas Regal who seen her for what she is a valuable player!! I am tired of fighting for my forum members against Rival this should not happen! What if I were like you not running a forum and my players had no clue what to do when banner or who to turn to? What do they do at that time they just go away to another casino that will take them.