RedReturns.com banned me for no reason

[Guard Dog]

Red Returns is well within their rights to enforce this (Affiliate side of things). It's real simple, actually... it's called collusion. And collusion costs casinos a ton of money every year. While the math may work out if you put pure theoretics behind it, it will not work out taking into effect collusion.

Your player... maybe she should have been paid, maybe not. At this point, we do not know the details. However, that is better left to a Casino Advocacy board like CasinoMeister.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

However, that is better left to a Casino Advocacy board like CasinoMeister.

Casino Advocate is correct! Casinomeister stopped being a "Player Advocate" a long time ago IMO!
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[Guard Dog]

Casino Advocate is correct! Casinomeister stopped being a "Player Advocate" a long time ago IMO!
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LOL :emoticon-0110-tongu

Well, we all have our own opinions about CM and other places, but they do help players providing the data supports their claims. Regardless, this thread is mostly about Collusion, IMO.

 

[lucasworkshop]

ok I was wrong let's move on...

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

LOL :emoticon-0110-tongu

Well, we all have our own opinions about CM and other places, but they do help players providing the data supports their claims. Regardless, this thread is mostly about Collusion, IMO.

True dat Andy!

It does leave the playing field wide open though for a true "Player Advocate" to step up to the plate and take the bull by the horns so to speak. Whatever happened to the "Player Guard Dog" that was in the works?

Is that still on the drawing board?
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[Guard Dog]

True dat Andy!

It does leave the playing field wide open though for a true "Player Advocate" to step up to the plate and take the bull by the horns so to speak. Whatever happened to the "Player Guard Dog" that was in the works?

Is that still on the drawing board?

Yes and a source of continual frustration The programming outfit I hired is not doing it justice. I am having it re-written in .NET by a quality programmer so that I can take ownership. The AGD spider is written in .NET by myself and I will have much more control over future updates this way. Currently the programming just is not fully functional, so I have moved on. I want it to be 100% correct at launch, not half-assed. Hate to delay, but.... half ass sucks.

 

[lucasworkshop]

it was not collusion man I was preparing myself to enter in promotion of redflush and casinolavida man ...

well sory if I am not good enough

 

[dominique]

Lucas, we are not really questioning your intentions since we cannot look inside your brain, so that would be silly.

The fact is though that it is not allowed (industry wide!) that affiliates provide incentives to players.

There are reason that there is such a rule. Incentives have been abused in the past.

So, it's just a business fact in this industry. You're going to have to live with it no matter who you promote.

Additionally, it is common practice to ask for player ID before making the first payout.

So both these complaints are about items that are well established and enforced in this industry.

I have had some neat ideas about incentivising players myself, there could be a whole lot of creativity in promotions using this. But, it is simply not allowed because it can be abused, so we have to find other ways to promote.

 

[lucasworkshop]

I have had some neat ideas about incentivising players myself, there could be a whole lot of creativity in promotions using this. But, it is simply not allowed because it can be abused, so we have to find other ways to promote.

there we come to the point
stupid rules need to be destroyed lol...

so what I am trying to change the whole industry don't you see? lol

stupid rules shoud die

 

[dominique]

Unfortunately it's not a stupid rule. It is a legitimate rule, if we didn't have it the affiliate programs would be defrauded so much that all of our commissions would have to be lowered.

It's a symbiosis - if they do well, we do well, and if we do well, they do well.

So we are keen to make sure that fraud does not take foothold.

 

[lucasworkshop]

Unfortunately it's not a stupid rule. It is a legitimate rule, if we didn't have it the affiliate programs would be defrauded so much that all of our commissions would have to be lowered.

It's a symbiosis - if they do well, we do well, and if we do well, they do well.
So we are keen to make sure that fraud does not take foothold.

what happens exactly without this rule? can you explain? I want to know

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

It's a symbiosis - if they do well, we do well, and if we do well, they do well.

At least that's how the model should work but in today's climate I think it is more along these lines:

A close, prolonged association between two or more different organisms of different species that may, but does not necessarily, benefit each member.
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[Vladi]

Lucas, no-one is going to explain to you how to use affiliate programs to defraud casinos in public here. It is unethical. If you have been a casino manager for 6 years then I can't believe that 1. you don't already know and 2. you can't work it out.

Just about every casino affiliate program I have ever come across forbids incentives, so they are not picking on you.

If you really want to offer incentives try poker programs as most are usually ok with it.

 

[lucasworkshop]

Lucas, no-one is going to explain to you how to use affiliate programs to defraud casinos in public here. It is unethical. If you have been a casino manager for 6 years then I can't believe that 1. you don't already know and 2. you can't work it out.

no-one is going to explain = the explanation doesn't exist...
everyone gets it beside me? come on

affiliate programs and casinos they represent are full of s**t

Casinos in my managment allow incentivized traffic... and cashouts at casinos under my managment are instant and no minimum lol ... no minimum deposits also...

the system that is used here is from last century, 20'th... Russians of course live in 21'st century as for casino games and affiliate programming :emoticon-0177-toivo

like for example, in the affiliate program in my casino you can not get into negative ballance ever... even if a player wins money you are in profit every time he makes bets ...

I'm just used to a much better programs and terms then classic european ripoff lol

of course I am not here to promote but discuss...

 

[alg]

Lucas cool. Please pm me info about such casinos or post it here.


I am new to affiliate marketing however worked in marketing before. I tend to agree with Lucas. Yes for CPA where incentives are less than CPA payout some risk exist. However even then they can stipulate that CPA per new player say 50$ and incentive such as free cash got to be min 75$. This way casino make some money and affiliate recoup some incentive money. As to affiliate networks I am yet to see any that provide real added value. Once we start to recruit affiliates I rather use has offers software and recruit direct.

On rev share there is no obvious logical reason to forbid cash incentives. Following some people logic here - feel free to disclose this reason as incentives are prohibited there is no risk of fraud

Even when CPA>incentive it can also work provided casino net profit per player at the moment of payout > CPA.

From reading forums like warriors, etc it looks many affiliates forgot that they are all important rainmakers. Sales=cash

I say soon many sharp businesses dump affiliate networks who just shave and push out successful people who ask questions. Unibet does affiliate marketing in house I say many more do or considering to do.

 

[alg]

And generally clause saying agreement can be terminated unilaterally and rev share does not survive termination is bs.

Anyone know casinos where rev share survives agreement termination?

 

[lucasworkshop]

thanks alg ... now everybody will say I invited you here to support me lol
I can't post the casinos here it's promotion

I have experienced in in first hand when a sportbook owner... the owner... asks for free advertising during World Cup 2010 lol... he would pay if some players join and loose money lol

I was supposed to put a 728x90 banner on top of a football website that recived about 10 000 UV/day because World Cup bring realy good traffic... and only if someone looses money I would earn lol...

and the owner is playing stupid like brand promotion means nothing to him lol... they all beg for free ads actualy... beg lol


I am so tired that I will change the industry now


In my affiliate program there is no negative ballance, everytime when player plays in casino I earn money and all money transactions are instant... and there are surely no documents involved lol...

who the f*** are they so i should prove them my identity? police? MoneyBookers and PayPal torcher people enough with identity verification so once this is done there is no reason for more lol... and casinos and aff programs only search for reasons no to pay people lol


I have plenty of stories, like one of my friends got players in bet770, casino770... the deal was flat fee + revenue share... after the flat fee deal ended they removed players with €2000 earnings from their account just like that lol ...

now all suckers will say revenue share ends when flat fee ends but the flat fee was offered because the guys are realy good in the job so it was an invitation... lol... and in the end a screw up...

I hear many affiliates comaplain all the time

 

[CaseyM]

Personally I didn't feel tortured when I got verified by MB lol

Torture- "the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."

Getting verified by moneybookers, filling in your details which takes less than 5 minutes, waiting for something in the post, typing verification code into MB account

 

[lucasworkshop]

Personally I didn't feel tortured when I got verified by MB lol

Torture- "the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."

Getting verified by moneybookers, filling in your details which takes less than 5 minutes, waiting for something in the post, typing verification code into MB account

aha? :emoticon-0136-giggl ...

also try the CC lol :emoticon-0136-giggl

that was just the first basic verification lol

do the bank upload from your bank to MB to lift your limits... the sooner the better... or they will ask you that once you got some more money to your mb and try to withdraw... then they needed to verify again lol... 3 more days

then they will ask you detailed info about why how what where and when do you send money to emails in your MB account... of course there is no problems if you have logical explanation for all your activities...

and try the Credit Card verification if you want to explode...

it says "ask your bank for exact amount of money we deducted from your card"... in the bank they say $1.24... went back to MB and enter $1.24... wrong amount, wait 24 hours to be able to enter the amount again...

day after day wrong amount untill we quit from using CC with MB lol...

that's why I felt tortured... because every time we needed some quick action MB stands in the way lol...

 

[CaseyM]

I use MB all the time putting funds on my CC and vice versa, they even sent me a MB CC quickly that works fine and all the people that shop on ebay with paypal lol, they seem to manage, anyway was just giggling at your writing style really, 'torture' 'revolutionise the industry' 'book of ninja' your posts are really dramatic