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Discussion in 'Affiliate and Program Issues' started by kenjhub, Jan 10, 2011.
Got an email saying that payments were being "sorted out" today. Just FYI.
Thanks for the info kenjhub. I don't suppose you (or anyone else here) has any information regarding CasinoAffiliateShare? These guys used to always pay within the first 5 days of each month and now they are 2 months late. They haven't replied to a single email...and I've sent them many.
Don't be surprised if you, and I guess, most people here don't get any commissions from AE/CWC this month.
They are deducting eWalletXpress funds from all affiliates. I never got paid last month and have just found out that the total of $2.5k I'm owed has magically transformed into -$160-odd.
Just a heads-up. To say that I'm not impressed would be a vast understatement.
Yep, I'm affected by this as well. Of the $2.2k I am owed, $500 has been deducted.
However the way I am looking at it, is like a chargeback. As technically the casino never got the money from those players using ewallet xpress. Hence the deductions.
Same scenario as if a player you refer makes a successful chargeback.
I guess Rival led the way and now we even have CWC doing it.
If programs are going to do this, they should state in their T&Cs that processing issues are to be paid for by the affiliate.
I did ask Martyn where in the terms and conditions it allowed them to do this. Strangely, that point was glossed over in what was a fairly frank exchange of views.
My view is that: the revenues were generated, so the commission is owed.
An analogy: if company A) has a client B) but decides to sub-contract some of the work to me, I should still be paid for the work even if client B refuses to pay Company A. That's how it works in the 'real world'.
I think if anything this has made me re-evaluate the exposure I provide US Facing casinos, as no doubt there are going to be more possible issues with processors and further seizures moving forward.
I can see why Club World are doing this. Fact is, they haven't received the funds, as they have been seized. Do we really expect them to pay out on revenue they don't actually see. All we have seen are numbers on a screen. The money which is causing the deductions never made it through to Club World. Hence I look at this as being similar to a charge back situation.
I am not being a Club World apologist. But I am standing back and looking at this realistically.
One last point:
I doubt he would have glossed over it. He has been nothing but straight with me concerning this issue.
Well Mark, thanks for posting this. I wanted to contact as many affiliates as possible in advance so you could hear it from me and not someone else. I wanted to appear honest and transparent as possible but now it just looks like a knee jerk reaction post.
I'll still plan to make my official post later on once I have spoken to more affiliates hit by this. I'd rather them hear it from me that 2nd hand.
If you had asked me not to post when we discussed this last night, I would have understood your reasons and been happy to comply. As much as I would like to, I can't read minds. Apologies.
A website is like an appartment building. Each appartment (ad spot) is worth a certain amount of money per month.
Over time, I have been able to assign a value to all the better spots on GamesandCasino.
I do run a business, and I have to see that all my appartments are collecting the rent necessary to support the building and all those who are performing services on it.
Programs with negative carryover will fail to pay the rent some months, and thus need a higher overall conversion rate than others to maintain the appartment. Lost revenues need to be recovered and losses made up for in consecutive months.
CWC has been just barely maintaining because of this, since I like the program overall and think them to be ethical and straight forward they have been occupying prime real estate.
When Rivals did the very same thing, let affiliates swallow their business losses, most of them were removed completely because they just cannot pay the rent.
Since I still like CWC, I will put them into cheaper real estate until losses are recovered.
This will make it harder for them to climb back up because of much lower exposure, but perhaps they can do it.
I am very sorry to do this, but I do run a business and just cannot swallow the losses other businesses incur.
Yeah I got hit too for about 75%. I agree with Dom that when you run a business you have to make strategic decisions but I'm fairly relaxed about it. After all if the casino hasn't received the revenue then there's nothing to share. C'est la vie I guess - such are the risks associated with the US market unfortunately. And at least they had the decency to phone and explain the position.
My view: I don't mind the deductions, but I have some caveats...
Affiliate Program MUST display how each player deposited 'per deposit' (I.e., What method or processor was used)
Affiliate Program MUST give us detailed stats per player, deposits, withdrawals, etc..
Processor Confiscation Report - A report, on a player by player basis, detailing what was deducted from our base.
Without this, they can just take whatever they want in the name of processor confiscations. It is not fair to us as partners, IMO, to have ZERO information and all (or partial) earnings deducted.
And don't forget that we get deducted for the processor confiscations and the programs have gotten some of that money back (after months of delays). But - I guarantee that is not returned to us either.
So... bigtime transparency of stats needs to happen if confiscations are going to be the affiliate's responsibility.
Hi Andy, we are being totally transparent with this and we will be providing the figures to you and all affiliates. We cant supply, for obvious reason a list of all your players and their activity. But the main thing I want to highlight is this....
SOME programs may have done or will do this to you, we on the other hand are making it clear that if these funds ever get settled with us then we will in turn settle with our affiliates.
We are not some programs and I fully believe that we are the fairest and most honest casino groups on the web today. We will return any deductions should this seizure be reversed, you have this in writing here and you will have it in your inbox later.
I appreciate it's a crappy situation and how it affects each of you individually as well as the hit we have taken as a company.
I have had good and bad responses from the affiliates I have spoken to so far, although totally disappointed with the situation some understand why its happening others havent been so understanding and I'll do my best to help where I can.
How will we know? Will there be some data/reports surrounding this? Or is it a 'take it on faith' thing?
I trust AE, BTW. But without data/reports... I trust pretty much nobody. Why? Because things 'fall through the cracks' no matter how diligent people are. With reports and data, we can both be vigilant on the matter. Without them.. we can only *hope* you are.
I don't want to derail GuardDog's question as it's a good one, but I have an additional question, which is:
Will there be further deductions relating to eWX going forward or is this it now?
Andy right now, it will be a faith thing. I dont have the kind of reports available to me that you are talking about and I know that you know that we are not in the business to screw anyone over. There is nothing to gain from that as with all others that tried it, they get found out.
I'll update everyone by email with the exact damage, if any.
I have a question that some of you may think as silly but.......were players told they didn't win because you didn't receive their deposit?
If a player won and played back some or all of that money did or do affiliates receive commission on that money? or was that deducted because you really didn't receive the players money?
Maybe I'm totally confused on this. If so please enlighten me.
I really feel sorry for all the USA Programs these days as it seems these financial losses occur every few months.I am willing to bet the other surviving processors will go their route in the future.I think had we been told in advance they will charge these amounts back and Spread the deductions over a couple months or more it would be more acceptable.
The programs more or less did a seizure of affiliate funds much like the processors did.These remarks are not towards CWC just my general take on the USA programs which is why we are in process to cut all Casinos accepting USA significantly.We have stuck it out four years but I have heard so many stories from friend and how difficult it is to deposit.One of my friends had a $5000 a month gambling habit but now she plays for free on pogo ,her reason is she bought so many prepaid cards that did not work and lost 15% in fees just buying and cashing them back that she gave up.
OK first thing is we always honour a players win. It is our business to look after players in the best possible way to achieve a loyal player base. Players would have lost funds (had them frozen) if they had a balance in EWX at the time it all kicked off.
If a player deposited via EWX but were not able to cashout via this method it would have been sent via another method.
This only affects funds that were caught up in the seizure by the DOJ.
Wow, burning the midnight oil or what, Martyn?? It's much appreciated.
I don't know if I got hit by this seizure or not, but if I did, it's part of the biz. And if a program has earned a reputation for being honest like AE has, why hassle them over it? I know we're upset over this, but so is the casino; they got burned, too. Point your anger where it belongs - the US - and make it work to get this legal situation resolved so it doesn't happen anymore.