WARNING to other Red Affiliates!

[PokerLee]

Just a quick warning about how Red Affiliates track their players!

I have a small forum and coupon site, every signup to me is important, I'm no guru by any means (hope to be someday)

Anyway I have had at-least 2 signups from my forum (valued forum members of mine), they both told me they had joined directly via my links, so I waited a day or two checked my stats and nothing! a bunch of clicks but no signups!

So I thought I best send a quick email to the affiliate admin, and see what happened with tracking and to see if the could re-track my players to my account!

Well I'm just gonna post the messages:
(as they have now not replied to me, and I seem not to have access to the new player freerolls)
___________________________________________
You

Dec 6 2011 1:10PM
Players not tracking?
I seem to have had 2 players that have joined red via my links!

But no signups are showing in my stats

The address that I have created to promote your xmas promotion is:
forum.pokerxtra.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=951
The above address is where my players joined from, and they say they have downloaded red poker via my site!

Player nicknames:
A***N
mi***OO

Can you please check tracking, and reassign my players to my affiliate account so I can see my signups

And can you explain why my players where not tracked properly?

Cheers

Lee F***s
______________________________________
Affiliate Manager

Dec 6 2011 4:55PM
RE: RE: Players not tracking?
Hi Lee,

I have checked your link and it looks fine. I have also looked at the two players.

a***N has your tag but has not been tracked by Netrefer. I will have them investigate.
mi***OO had previously visted our site in the 30 days prior to registering by searching in google for red poker and has that tag as we use first referal.

I will investigate and get back to you once I have heard from Netrefer.

Cheers
Ste
_________________________________________
Affiliate Manager

Dec 6 2011 5:40PM
RE: RE: Players not tracking?
Hi Lee,

I was mistaken on adigbn. They are tagged to a different affiliate with a similar ID to yours. As I was saying ealier we work on first referral so that player will have had a cookie from clicking to 32Red Poker from another affiliates site.

I am afraid in this case I cannot tag the players to you and would advise you to tell players to clear cookies before clicking your links to avoid this in the future.

thanks

Ste
_________________________________________
You

Dec 7 2011 12:16PM
Players not tracking?
I feel robbed!
These are blatantly my referred players!
And they are valued members of my forum!

They joined red via my links, and I think asking every prospect to clear their cookies before clicking my links is outrageous!

Why does my link not override any cookies?
Do you provide Javascript to clear cookies? (doubtful)

I usually run private promotions for my referred players ONLY, now if I ran a private game at red, I would have to explain to my players that even to they used my link, they have not been tracked to me!

I was also going to promote redaffiliates!

I don't know if I will continue to promote red
___________________________________________
You

Dec 8 2011 3:28PM
Players not tracking?
OK I have now read through your T&C's and I can not see anything to do with first referral?

This is outrageous you should be awarding the last click prior to players joining.

But can I point out that my players joined you directly from my links, and I have not been awarded for the signup.

Your T&C:

5.3 (b). Referred Player

A player who has accessed any of the 32Red Products and registered for a cash account directly through one of Your affiliate links.
_____________________________________________
You

Dec 10 2011 1:26PM
Players not tracking?
I would also like to add from your FAQ:

Q: How do you track conversions from my affiliate website?
A: When someone clicks on one of our banners/links from your website then your unique affiliate tracking code is placed into a file called a “cookie”. When that site visitor then goes on to join and play for real our system recognises the code and assigns that player to your affiliate account. You subsequently earn a percentage of the revenue that player generates. Note: the cookie lasts 30 days, but this is dependent on individual computer and security settings.

(again NO mention of older cookie getting rewarded, my players used my link directly to join 32redpoker)
____________________________________________________________________
You

Dec 15 2011 12:39PM
Players not tracking?
I have had no reply

And I can not see any reference to 'first cookie' or 'first referral' ANYWHERE on your site!


_________________________________________________

END OF MESSAGES !

It is now 27th Dec, so they have not replied to me for over 12days!

I understand it is the season! but I spoke to one of the affiliate managers on skype and he told me to speak with Ste the Head Affiliate Manager! (as you can see in the messages he is the person I have already been speaking with!)

I expected more from them! NO MENTION of the way they run player tracking on their site!

I wanted to be completely open in this forum so I thought sharing these messages with you all is important!

Also why do Affiliate Guard Dog have their logo on the 32Red site? (I expected more from you!)

A old time reader, New forum poster!

Hope this helps other affiliates help when deciding to promote 32Red Poker!

All the best

PokerLee
PokerXtra Forum

 

[Mark@32Red]

Hi PokerLee,

First of all, apologies for the slow response time - as you suggested, it is the Xmas break and there are a lot of staff on holiday at this time of the year.

I am not in the office so I can't investigate the tagging on the players you mention above, but I am sure Ste is correct with the tagging he mentions above. Just to confirm that we do operate a first referral policy, but this doesn't apply for affiliate traffic. If the player first visited via an affiliate (not direct, google or other advert campaign) we will always credit the most recent affiliate with the sale. We will not overwrite cookies when a player joined via a non-affiliate source however.

I am not sure how you can be so certain that these players joined via your link, but from what you are saying above, it appears that one first visited via Google - hence he didn't track, and the other visited another affiliate site after yours.

We are unable to re-tag players, but if you ask these players to delete all software (inc registry settings), clear all cookies and join again via your links - I'll ensure they have no problems with duplicate accounts etc.

Regards,
Mark

 

[AffiliateSecure]

Hi PokerLee,

Other than the corresponding you showing here, which I must say is very disturbing, do you have anything else you can show us?

Regards,

AffiliateSecure

 

[bonustreak]

Hi there I just wanted to toss in my two cents here about this issue. Being a forum owner myself I cannot tell you how many times valued members of our community have declared and swore they used our banner to open accounts, and most of the time they probably did but they are gamblers not techs, they may have forgot that last week they were at another site seen a casino and clicked the banner.. although they did not open an acc. Days later they are on my forum see a banner click and download.. sorry I understand that I should not get credit, I was not the first referring affiliate.

My point is sometimes players are wrong or they forget where then downloaded from, it happens all the time. 32 has a great rep and are very trusted I hope you can work with them to find a solution to this. Personally I have never had such an issue, even when they took over other brands they made sure all players were mapped over correctly.

 

[PokerLee]

Hi PokerLee,


I am not sure how you can be so certain that these players joined via your link, but from what you are saying above, it appears that one first visited via Google - hence he didn't track, and the other visited another affiliate site after yours.

We are unable to re-tag players, but if you ask these players to delete all software (inc registry settings), clear all cookies and join again via your links - I'll ensure they have no problems with duplicate accounts etc.

Regards,
Mark

Let me be clear 'MY PLAYERS JOINED 32RED DIRECTLY FROM MY LINKS'

No visiting other affiliate sites after clicking my links!

My players understand that they must be tracked to me to play my games, as most of my promotions are for my referred players only!

Why pay on first referral?
(note there is no mention of first referral in 32red terms and conditions, in fact it reads as the opposite)

5.3 (b). Referred Player

A player who has accessed any of the 32Red Products and registered for a cash account directly through one of Your affiliate links.

and as for asking my players to rejoin? why should I do this?

I have done what is asked from me as an affiliate, and you have failed to meet YOUR terms and conditions!

32red affiliate program is backwards, I generated the conversion, and the previous cookie gets awarded!

I dont want to tell every prospect to delete there cookies, and I dont feel that I should.

I really do not understand why you pay the first referral? seems dumb and unfair to the affiliate that got you the player!
If the first affiliate didnt do his job and get a converting player, why should he get paid?

And to top it off, I post here at AGD and get an almost instant reply!

I think 32red should be more transparent on how they track players!

I am not happy

Which is a shame, as I really do like the software and promotions!

I wish I could resolve this, but I dont want to waste my time getting other affiliates paid!

And unless 32red can provide java script to delete my viewers cookies on page load, I dont see how I can get paid?

 

[PokerLee]

Hi there I just wanted to toss in my two cents here about this issue. Being a forum owner myself I cannot tell you how many times valued members of our community have declared and swore they used our banner to open accounts, and most of the time they probably did but they are gamblers not techs, they may have forgot that last week they were at another site seen a casino and clicked the banner.. although they did not open an acc. Days later they are on my forum see a banner click and download.. sorry I understand that I should not get credit, I was not the first referring affiliate.

My point is sometimes players are wrong or they forget where then downloaded from, it happens all the time. 32 has a great rep and are very trusted I hope you can work with them to find a solution to this. Personally I have never had such an issue, even when they took over other brands they made sure all players were mapped over correctly.

Glad to here they mapped your player for you!

But my players definitely joined directly from my link! (no visiting other sites AFTER)

The issue is they already had an older affiliate cookie, I would love to continue to promote 32red, but I dont see much point!

oh and one of my players who joined via my link, had a cookie set from Google a nonaffiliate cookie
(so I presume I will never get paid unless I mess with my users cookies, or get them to delete cookies before clicking link)


Why should an affiliate who did not get the signup get awarded when I convert that visitor to a player?

I did the work to get them playing!

 

[PokerLee]

Hi PokerLee,

Other than the corresponding you showing here, which I must say is very disturbing, do you have anything else you can show us?

Regards,

AffiliateSecure

Dunno what else I need to say?

They award the first referral, not the affiliate that generated the converting player!

I would not mind so much if they were clear about it in there terms and conditions!
(but their terms and conditions, state a player who joins directly from your links, THIS IS NOT THE CASE)

I think 32red should consider changing how they operate, and how they have managed to get a AGD logo on the bottom of there site amazes me!

Are there other poker sites who work on first referral? If so please let me know, as not worth promoting them either!

 

[PokerLee]

Hi PokerLee,

I am not sure how you can be so certain that these players joined via your link, but from what you are saying above, it appears that one first visited via Google - hence he didn't track, and the other visited another affiliate site after yours.

No you have this wrong, they joined directly via my links!

One player had an older cookie, from visiting 32red via Google within 30days previous to clicking my link!

The other player had older cookies, from visiting an other affiliate site 30days prior to clicking my link!

My players had directly joined via my link, the issue is that 32red operate on the first referral!

and as for visiting via Google, that should have no issue as that should NOT be an affiliate cookie!
(therefore my cookie should have overridden the Google cookie)

As I previously stated I FEEL ROBBED!

I am only a small affiliate, and it is hard enough market so every referred player is important to me!

I feel I need some java to delete cookies on page load, but then I am invading privacy!

I wonder how many other poker sites operate on a first referral basis?

 

[inspiration]

When 32 red had implemented the first referrer rule they basically said the program does not need affiliates that bad, otherwise which affiliate would agree with such idea ?

A brand good for players does not automatically mean good for affiliates, just saying.

Do not forget about the portals that promote them heavily like CM, players may have clicked on their banners first etc.

I basically forgot about them as they have never made some decent profits for me.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[PokerLee]

When 32 red had implemented the first referrer rule they basically said the program does not need affiliates that bad, otherwise which affiliate would agree with such idea ?

A brand good for players does not automatically mean good for affiliates, just saying.

Do not forget about the portals that promote them heavily like CM, players may have clicked on their banners first etc.

I basically forgot about them as they have never made some decent profits for me.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree, player promos and rep is good, but as for the affiliate side I feel its a poor deal!

Any players I send them will probably already have a cookie set by some poker affiliate guru, or cookie stuffed by some downloading site!

I still dont understand why ANY poker site would not want to honor the last real click when choosing who that player should be affiliated with!

Awarding the last referrer is more logical!

But I'm complaining because the way they work does NOT comply with their T&C!

There T&C says that any player who directly joins from a click is a referred player, unfortunately this is not the case

also there FAQ says similar

I couldnt see any mention on there site about the first referral!
(please correct me if I am wrong!)

Note: I have taken a copy of all the T&C and FAQ, just in-case any changes are made)

MORE TO THE POINT WHY AM I THE ONLY AFFILIATE TO NOTICE THIS ABOUT 32RED?
OR THE ONLY AFFILIATE BOTHERED?

 

[PokerLee]

Feel free to Thank this post if you did not realize that 32red worked on a first referral basis!

(I'm a new poster and a few thanks wouldnt hurt)

 

[Guard Dog]

I'll say a few things about this thread:

1st - I've never done well with 32Red despite promoting them hard for awhile. This is largely due to their large player database (hard to find *new* players).

2nd - First Referrer is relatively common and is never 'spelled out' in the T&C's.


You will find that most affiliate programs (from what I have seen) work on some sort of '1st Referrer' tagging structure. Some have cookies that expire in 10, 20, 30 days and some that are active for longer and some indefinitely (until the cookie is removed). Yes, some work on sessions and IP's as well... but cookies are the most prevalent (again, from what I have seen).

I don't think 32Red has done anything *wrong* here, but I agree with you and I do not promote them anymore. The cookies and large player base are the reasons I do not promote them. It's too hard to make a buck.

 

[PokerLee]

I'll say a few things about this thread:

1st - I've never done well with 32Red despite promoting them hard for awhile. This is largely due to their large player database (hard to find *new* players).

2nd - First Referrer is relatively common and is never 'spelled out' in the T&C's.


You will find that most affiliate programs (from what I have seen) work on some sort of '1st Referrer' tagging structure. Some have cookies that expire in 10, 20, 30 days and some that are active for longer and some indefinitely (until the cookie is removed). Yes, some work on sessions and IP's as well... but cookies are the most prevalent (again, from what I have seen).

I don't think 32Red has done anything *wrong* here, but I agree with you and I do not promote them anymore. The cookies and large player base are the reasons I do not promote them. It's too hard to make a buck.

Thank you very much for your input, I think I will stop promoting them!

I may even remove links to them, why should I even give them my link juice?

Is there a list of poker affiliate programs who work on a first referral basis?
(this would be good so I can check my poor converting programs, to see if that's why!)

Also surly it SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT in t&c?

infact 32red T&C says that any player who joins directly from my link is my referred player!

Why do AGD allow there badge on a poker site when their T&C is not transparent or actually correct in this case?

 

[Guard Dog]

Is there a list of poker affiliate programs who work on a first referral basis?
(this would be good so I can check my poor converting programs, to see if that's why!)

None that I know of.. and it would take a bit to figure it all out as well.

Also surly it SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT in t&c?

That's up to the program. I would say that 99.9% do not put that information in the T&C's.

Why do AGD allow there badge on a poker site when their T&C is not transparent or actually correct in this case?

We do not get involved with the tracking at this point. Tracking is up to each program. 32Red uses 1st Referrer and that is up to them to do so. I prefer last referrer or a cookie length, but many affiliates also like 1st referrer (big affiliates especially).

If anyone wants to volunteer to put together a list of how each program tracks their links, feel free to do so. I would be willing to post it at AGD and, in the future possibly even work it into the website.