Starz Partners (BitStarz) Audit Report

Discussion in 'Real Revenue Share Audits' started by Guard Dog, Mar 13, 2020.

Do You Work With BitStarz Affiliates

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    87.5%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. Will Try

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Hello AGD community,

    Today we present to you the real revenue share audit report for BitStarz Affiliates.

    They have BitStarz Casino as their brand.

    Affiliate Reporting Platform: SoftSwiss
    https://starzpartners.com/partner/login
    Affiliate Reporting Platform.jpg

    We deposited 6.1 MBTC via BTC with no bonus due to country restriction.
    Cashier 1.jpg
    We started playing some slots:

    Slot 1 Start.jpg

    Slot 2 Start.jpg

    Slot 3 End.jpg

    Eventually, we lost all the funds and checked the earnings report:
    Stats.jpg

    For the deposit of 0.00610000 via BTC the Net Gaming Revenue was BTC 0.00457500
    Our earnings should be 40% of NGR which is BTC 0.00183.

    To summarize, the Effective Net Gaming Revenue (the amount of money deposited and lost) is 0.00457500/0.00610000= 75%.

    Finally, multiply the advertised revenue share rate with the Effective NGR to see your real revenue share rate, e.g:
    • 25% = 18.75 %
    • 30% = 22.50 %
    • 35% = 26.25 %
    • 40% = 30.00 %
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  2.  
    Zuga

    Zuga Administrator Staff Member

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    75% ---meh.... I suspect when bonus is used it would be even lower result
     
  3.  
    SlimStacks

    SlimStacks New Member

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    Correct they take off bonuses even if the player loses!!
     
  4.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 20 years & still going!

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    While giving a bonus does come with a fee, that fee is somewhere between 20 - 25%. If they're deducting the "bonus" as a GGR loss, even when the player loses it back to the casino, that's just a HUGE scam right there. Over and above the crappy % commissions they pay... Another scammy white-label, is all I have to say!
     
  5.  
    SlimStacks

    SlimStacks New Member

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    Unfortunately white labels are the only ones allowing aussies so I'm stuck.
     
  6.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 20 years & still going!

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    DeckMedia - pays min 30%. Your player loses $1,000 you earn $300 ;) Most of their casinos accept AU traffic.

    Casoo (AGD Platinum Sponsor) accepts AU traffic, and they pay pretty close to their advertised % commission. https://www.affiliateguarddog.com/community/forums/casoo-partners.722/

    There are some WL's who are honest. Hence you do have choices, where, you don't have to work for peanuts!
     
  7.  
    Bitstarz Affiliates

    Bitstarz Affiliates Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi guys,

    Not really an affiliate guy here so this is a bit of new territory for me, but I’m gonna try to make sense of this anyway, and if anything is unclear, maybe we can clear things up together.

    So, as to the remark regarding bonuses being deducted, I’d like to go back to how we go from GGR to NGR. There are a few steps here, but I think we can all agree that GGR normally includes all revenue, which includes bonus money losses from players too. This naturally has to be removed as part of the NGR calculation as neither of us get paid in bonus money.

    In other words, if a player gets a 100% match bonus on a 100 EUR deposits and loses both the 100 EUR bonus and the 100 EUR cash, that means a 200 EUR GGR but only a 100 EUR basic NGR.

    Just to elaborate a bit further:

    GGR = Total Bets (real money and bonus) – Total Wins (real money and bonus)
    NGR (Casino Profit) = GGR – Bonus – Admin Fee

    Now, to the admin fee which is 25%. I’m not completely sure about the standard admin fee casinos have in their affiliate program but what I’ve heard is between 20-25%. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    That fee is taken out to cover basic playing-related stuff such as fees from game providers, white-label fees, chargebacks, fraud, payments, etc. The last one is significant as many players like to make a lot of transactions which racks up the cost. I’m sure there’s plenty of arguments back and forth as to what a suitable admin fee should be, but from what I’ve understood, the 25% is not that over the top.

    As business partners on a rev-share model, we share the revenue so from a laymen’s perspective I don’t think it’s unreasonable to share some basic stuff attributed to the costs in direct relation to the behavior of the players referred, but maybe that’s just me. Affiliates also enjoy no negative carryover at BitStarz, which we can all agree to be benefiting the affiliate more than the casino.

    Anyhow, I hope that makes sense. Now I might be completely wrong about this, and if I am, please feel free to teach me something new.

    Have a great day,

    Olle
    BitStarz.com
     
  8.  
    eenzoo

    eenzoo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Actually, it's one of the biggest numbers taken by operators. Please have a look at the table: gpwa.org/forum/35-admin-fee-251441.html#post923574

    Don't get me wrong Olle, I love to work with Bitstarz, your AM's are great too, but a 25% admin fee is over the top.
    ... IMO.
     
    pokiewins likes this.
  9.  
    Bitstarz Affiliates

    Bitstarz Affiliates Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi Enzoo,

    I agree, the 25% might be on the higher end of the % compared with other operators, but we have been open and honest about this and not hiding anything of how we calculate this.

    Sure, some might offer 0% but that doesn’t mean that they get their payments, game providers, etc free of charge. It means that they’re either offering to take that blow themselves in a hope to attract more affiliates, or perhaps because they offer lower rev-share or are in desperate need of traffic. I mean, I cannot speak for them.

    A good parallel would, for example, be shipping cost when you order random stuff from Amazon. Just because a vendor is giving you free shipping, that doesn’t mean they can send items via post for free. They’re most likely slapping that shipping fee on the price instead.

    The same goes for us. I’m sure we can find affiliates that are happy with 25% rev share or a low CPA, but that is no guarantee that their traffic is any good. An example that you can probably relate to would be if you ask for a €150 CPA and the casino comes back saying “well this other guy is charging €75 CPA”. Just because it’s cheaper doesn’t mean his traffic is equally as good as yours.

    We’re not forcing anyone to send traffic to BitStarz, but we have a great reputation amongst affiliates and players. Then our opinions may differ and we might not be a good fit, and that’s totally fine with us. What we do not appreciate however is when there are negative claims put out there without evidence.

    We’re happy to publicly reason the fees we have and put everything out there for everyone to see, and if at the end of that we don’t agree with each other, at least we’ve made the most educated decision possible.

    Also, I appreciate the nice words about us and our team :)

    Olle
     
  10.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 20 years & still going!

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    • Player-A deposits €100;
    • Player-A receives €100 bonus-match;
    • Player-A has a total of €200.
    At that point, Casino GGR = -€100
    • Player-A commences wagering;
    • Player-A loses both the €100 bonus-match and the €100 deposit.
    GGR: €100 + €100 (bonus) subtract €100 (bonus) = €100 <--- that's called double entry bookkeeping ;)

    The bonus lost back to the casino, squares itself out.

    As far as the GGR deductions to obtain NGR, 25% is daylight robbery.

    It's not like Bitstarz holds UK or Malta license. Your licensed in Curacao.

    There are plenty of other casino licensed in curacao, who have multiple game providers, who don't deduct an outrageous 25% Admin fee. Those that don't (charge this 25% fee) actually pay affiliates the exact commission % as advertised.

    No reason or excuse why Bitstarz can't follow suit.

    There's no valid excuse for these grossly under quoted commission percentages:
    • 25% = 18.75 %
    • 30% = 22.50 %
    • 35% = 26.25 %
    • 40% = 30.00 %
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  11.  
    SlimStacks

    SlimStacks New Member

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    Thanks mate will take a look. Any chance I could reach out to you on a couple of things? It would be great to talk with a fellow aussie in this space. I can't DM u maybe because im a new member.

    You charge the players 2.5% deposit fees then you also charge the affiliate? You also transfer withdrawals in euro so the players (aussie) are charged conversion fees by their banks. Are you sure your not also deducting the chargebacks from affillaite rev?

    If it was just a flat 25% admin fee I would be happy its all the other hidden costs and the underquoted commission percentages.
     
  12.  
    Bitstarz Affiliates

    Bitstarz Affiliates Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi SlimStacks,

    So, the 2.5% we charge for some deposit options doesn't cover all the costs from that particular payment option. It just covers a part of that cost, but we've been considering removing that fee for players as far as I'm aware. Just to give some insight, even if that 2.5 % goes towards covering payment provider fees, we're paying over 100,000 EUR a month still.

    As for the bank transfers to Aussies, we don't charge anything or take out any fees for that. I also remember actually sending extra funds to the players to cover the blow for some of the fees that their bank might be charging them. So yes, not hidden costs.

    Also, chargebacks aren't really a concern at BitStarz as we only accept 3D secure cards that shift the liability to the banks.

    Olle
     
  13.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 20 years & still going!

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    @Bitstarz Affiliates - Olle, your just the rep (employee) for this company, hence you alliance will be with them, that's understandable. However the reason people aren't happy, is because they're receiving far-less than the commission tier %.

    If these are the honest % values:
    • 25% = 18.75 %
    • 30% = 22.50 %
    • 35% = 26.25 %
    • 40% = 30.00 %
    Then state these on the affiliate program.

    Stating 25% (etc., etc) and then paying EG - 18.75%, is misleading and dishonest.
     
    BetOnlineUK likes this.
  14.  
    AussieDave

    AussieDave 20 years & still going!

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    @SlimStacks - mate, since August 2017 when the AU Gov., passed the IGA, I stopped promoting casinos to Aussies. If your questions are not AU related, then ask @Guard Dog to activate your PM option.
     
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