Rogued Bwin denies to alter predatory terms on Facebook

[GFPC]

This is a repost from the GPWA. Just simply flat out refuse to alter the terms. Read the joke post by bewinners.

Thread here from GPWA
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/bewinners-refusal-change-predatory-terms-conditions-facebook-193145.html


Bewinners Refusal to Change Predatory Terms and Conditions - Facebook. - Gambling Portal Webmasters Association
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Recently BWIN opened a Bewinners Facebook Fan Page. It is open to the public which is why I am posting this here. I am really disappointed in their replies on there and the complete refusal to edit or change the terms at all. I had originally had high hopes of them to really do what was right. Instead they have slapped us down hard. They totally have no respect for their affiliates and I suggest everyone who is against Predatory Affiliate Terms to please speak up if you have a moment of you time. I will post on thread in their page which seriously is disgusting. If you want to read the rest join their page.

http://www.facebook.com/bewinners#!/notes/bewinnerscom/dear-bewinners/169671666383299

READ THIS (edited out last names.) - They clearly state no intentions at all to remove or alter the terms!!!

Dear bewinners!


by bewinners.com on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 at 12:08pm

Thank you for your massive response on the bewinners Facebook page! We know that this period is not easy for anyone and want to say sorry for all the difficulties that the transition has caused you.
The Facebook page was mainly started to inform you and to involve you. To better serve this goal, we started a discussion section, where we would like to learn more about your concerns in a well structured and efficient way. If you want to use it, just click on the “Discussions” tab on the site menu and create a new thread with your question or concern as the title. We will firstly gather your comments and address all of them in detail in a second phase. This will help us in solving the problems together. Of course you can contact your bwin Affiliate Account Manager directly for individual questions too.

Your bewinners Team



Comment · LikeUnlike · Share

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o Aleksandar You don't have to be sorry - just cancel the new
predatory terms you've introduced.17 hours ago · UnlikeLike · 6 peopleLoading... ·
o Steve I would like to second that request please. Revert back to affiliate friendly terms please. Regards16 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading...
o Marius This is just to avoid social media know about these problems.. not good, the solution would be to revert to old T&C15 hours ago · UnlikeLike · 3 peopleLoading... ·
o Andrea Hello to all of you dear bewinners!
I think it would be desirable to maintain the same commissions for the old clients, instead of reducing them of 20%. In fact, the already acquired clients will allow you to earn the same amounts as before,... whereas we would earn just the 5%.
In my opinion, maintaining the same conditions could be the only solution to satisfy everybody.See More
15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personFabio this. ·
o Steve ‎@ Andrea - what do you mean? For sure the retroactive claus must be stopped. That is of course so the do not breach the 1000s of contracts they had. But then you have to stop the qouta, and reduced rate of 5%. With those in play the whole affiliate landscape will change. It is a huge threat to our livelyhoods. It must be stopped at all costs.13 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading...
o Bernhard What`s to discuss ? You really didn`t get what this outrage is about by now ? You changed the rules during the game, you take away our customers after 3 years and you do so retroactively, for me that is the biggest hurdle by far !12 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 3 people3 people like this. ·
o Jens Bewinners : Theifs..Time to remove all your links and banners guys.. Im redirecting all links from post to bet365, expekt, unibet or betsafe...damn it feels good9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personEmil likes this. ·
o bewinners.com Aleksandar and Steve: Please understand that we cannot and will not cancel the new terms. We have also received a lot of positive feedback from many affiliates. It is a performance based program considering all labels of the bwin group (be...sides sajoo.fr) that supports the affiliates and us to be successful. We are open for your questions and concerns and ready to answer them, but we would ask you to wait until the first earning calculation is done on November 6th in order to judge the effects of the new t&c.
Marius: We opened a discussion forum to discuss your concerns in a well structered way. As we are doing this here on Facebook, we are obviously using social media for it.
Andrea: Thanks for your comment, please create a post about it in the discussions threat.
Bernhard, Steve: The bewinners t&c shall be valid for former and new affiliates in order to treat everybody equal. The 5% cannot threat your lifelyhood as only 5% of players are still active after 3 years. bewinners on purpose reduces to 5% in order to push you to not rely on old players. We challenge ourselves every day and we want you to do the same. And if you do so, our automated program based on the number of NPA you bring, gives you the opportunity to earn much better than ever before at bwin.
Jens: It's everybody's individual decision with whom he wants to cooperate- we provide our affiliates, and most of you are our affiliates, with the best brand in the industry, the new tool that allows you to really control and steer your business in the best possible way.See More
36 minutes ago · LikeUnlike ·
o Bernhard From Oct 1 until Oct 3, the only timeframe where it was possible to compare "commission before" and "commission after", mine was down 26% - now not even that would threaten my ""lifelyhood", this is a matter of principle also. everybody at ...bwin keeps going on how few players are left after 3 years, yet you insist on that clause, why ??
Also, you wrote " in order to push you to not rely on old players" - uuuhhm, which is it ? How could we rely on old players if there are only 5% left ???See More
28 minutes ago · LikeUnlike ·
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[lots0]

Perdy obvious that they are using facebook so they can control the conversation.

I wonder where all those affiliates that like the program are> Why ain't they posting on facebook... lol

I guess I just don't understand why everyone doesn't just drop them and move on.

They aren't going to change until they are FORCED too and the only way to force them is for everyone to drop them...

Right now it is painfully obvious that they are laughing at the affiliates that have stuck with them... Why would anyone want to work with someone that cheats them and then laughs at them???

Just drop Bwin and be done with it... Thats my two cents.

 

[Pokerkeep]

Our campaign is affecting them and there is movement...
Gambling Portal Webmasters Association

@ lotsO

From what I'm hearing - Many of the most affected affiliates earn huge commissions and can't afford to just drop them, especially when dropping them means instantly losing all future earnings.

It will take time for affiliates to phase them out and replace the income with other brands.

 

[Perc]

Our campaign is affecting them and there is movement...
Gambling Portal Webmasters Association

TheCanadianGambler, you do not have permission to access this page.

 

[lots0]

@ lotsO

From what I'm hearing - Many of the most affected affiliates earn huge commissions and can't afford to just drop them, especially when dropping them means instantly losing all future earnings.

It will take time for affiliates to phase them out and replace the income with other brands.

Well that is why Bwin is laughing...

Affiliates, need to man up and take a stand... as long as they let the fear of losing "future" earnings control their actions.. the low life casino owner has them by the short hairs and the casino owner can laugh all the way to the bank, while the affs hope and pray they don't lose any more...

If you want results you have to take a stand.

Some of the affiliates act like they are trying to 'reform' these jerks at Bwin... That is almost laughable, if it was not so sad.

 

[DoggyStyle]

"We have also receive a lot of positive feedback from affiliates" LMAO!
I would drop them instantly, but I'm not promoting them...

 

[Pokerkeep]

TheCanadianGambler, you do not have permission to access this page.

Ya, sorry - it's in the private members forums.
While I can't publish what is said in those forums, it is positive news...

 

[Pokerkeep]

Well that is why Bwin is laughing...

Affiliates, need to man up and take a stand... as long as they let the fear of losing "future" earnings control their actions.. the low life casino owner has them by the short hairs and the casino owner can laugh all the way to the bank, while the affs hope and pray they don't lose any more...

If you want results you have to take a stand.

Some of the affiliates act like they are trying to 'reform' these jerks at Bwin... That is almost laughable, if it was not so sad.

It's more than the fear of losing future earnings. It's the ability to pay the mortgage, feed the kids....

 

[DoggyStyle]

I 'm trying to understand their 'carry-over' clause.
What's the difference between 'negative player balances' and 'negative commission balances' ?
negative player = negative balances !?
Or do they treat each player separately?
seriously, I just don't get it!

 

[GFPC]

There has been a number of methods given on various forums. I sort of like the method where you keep them on your site - but give a terrible review. for existing affiliates this keeps them from losing their income and having their contract terminated. But alerts the players of the bad press and risks.

It kind of covers both angles! Someone pointed out they want all affiliates who are in disagreement to remove them. Its almost like cleaning house. They want to start fresh. Get new affiliates primed for the new terms.

While I still promote them - I do it for the reason that I want them to know even though I am so vocal and critical I still have faith in them to do what is right. I do see how this can seem - but I also have to make sure my contract does not get terminated.

I have told a few people though - I have a feeling they may terminate me anyways considering I put belosers.com online. I kind of expect it from them but so far they have not done so.

I will I think very soon follow the advice on the suggestion I honestly edit my reviews to include the risk factor. And share that we consider them rogue and predatory but still promote out of fear of account closure.

The other option is to leave them online - redirect traffic to another ongame skin since I know so many ongame skins are all over this waiting for affiliates to jump ship.

I have faith they will revert the terms back - but make no mistakes about it, the next couple of days I am resting up for an ONSLAUGHT!

There is so much talk about them being a powerhouse in Europe and it will be impossible to penetrate affiliates there.. I disagree!

I will certainly do all i can to educate the 1000s of affiliates in Europe everyday - since I have a funny feeling they do not know of this cohesive group that has taking a life of its own.

It seems like it will take time - but what ever the decision is - we as an industry need to at least show the rest of programs we will fight these types of terms till the bitter end.


I am going to put everything on the line for this one! "Im all in" -- it feels like a "coin flip"

 

[bb1webs]

as long as they let the fear of losing "future" earnings control their actions..

He's right. You want to lose little or lose big? Because those are your options in these kind of situations.

I imagine the contract terms state you must actively promote them.

If that is true, actively promote them on your review page ... write about them as you know it to be, ... but only list them there.

Because in the end you're doing yourself a much bigger dis-service by sending more players, even 1 more, to a place which in the end is going to do to you what you are fearing now, only then they won't take everything you've accumulated up until now (when you knew better than to continue promoting them in any aggressive manner) -

Instead they'll take all that, plus what you send them since knowing better.

You're going to lose. You want to lose little, or lose big?


....

ps. heart goes out to those wrapped up in this, but what we all should take away from this is that this is an entity which will renege on its word. There is no bigger black eye in the world of gambling than to be known as to have proven to renege on a debt owed.

You owe it to your readers to at very least present them with the facts as they stand, and let the player decide if they want to give their business to a place that openly laughs at those with whom it has broken its word and reneged on a debt owed.