Message to Rival White Label Casinos!

[TheGamblingGuru]

Rival White Labels ~ What The Hell Is Going On with player cashouts and affiliate payments? There is thread after thread and post after post over at Casinomeister now regarding late and stalled player cashouts at Rival White-Label Casinos!

This is also affecting your affiliate partners as well here, not only in our own payments being received for our marketing efforts and partnership agreement with you and your white-label casinos but also with the aspect of TRUST that our website visitors and players have placed into us, your partners, and our integrity as far as providing them with safe places to play at online. By us continuing to recommend your brand to our website visitors it is further damaging our reputation and integrity as affiliates more and more each and every day by your lack of integrity and communication skills!

Rival, your total lack of communication here with your affiliate partners is bad enough but to further damage your brand now, you are also not communicating the payment delays to your players properly, this is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE and will NO LONGER be tolerated by myself and many, many other affiliate partners of Rival.

You clearly state on each of your "White-Label Casino Websites" that player payments/cashouts will be processed within 2-5 business days and that is also the message that your "live support" continues to give out as well. As of the past two months this term in your player agreement has turned into a damn joke and you know this but yet you FAIL to respond properly to the online player community by offering up a valid reason for these stalled and delayed payments.

All I can say at this point is that you need to get your act together and fast too before you find your company and all of your white-label casino brands in the BLACKLISTED garbage dump!

Your lack of communication to your loyal players and affiliate partners is intolerable at this point now and if things do not change soon and you as a company do not start communicating properly with your partners then you will find yourselves BLACKLISTED at so many websites online it will take you two years to recover from the damage if at all possible.

All I and others (Both Players and Affiliates) are asking for here is just simply some honest communication as to what in the hell is going on there and when it will be fixed. You decide the ethical and moral judgment call yourself here, but also take this as a warning if you have any dignity left at all that this type of behavior will no longer be tolerated!

It's all about Open and Honest and Clear Communication Rival
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[Guard Dog]

Well said. Rival is making a lot of mistakes over the last 2 months. Players are realizing it and have already shown this by not opening their pocketbooks to Rival Casinos.

Over the last 2 months I have lost about 90% of my player base at Rival Casinos. This is due to many things, but one is certainly this very issue.

It reminds me of Hype Casino before they went bankrupt. I hate to say that, but Rival either needs to start making public messages or this will only get much, much worse for them and their partners.

I feel very sorry for the white labels who are at Rival's mercy.

 

[Igaming.pro]

I agree with you regarding the lack of communication with Rival. As white label from Rival, i personally fought with them about 1 player whom complained : 1 month later he didn't have his check. As you know, white label cannot issue checks by itself, so we have to ask to rival in order to know the progress and if money has been received, btw, WE, white labels, are immediately debited, even if money is not received by players.

This player contacted me first by PM on casinomeister forum and, finally, 2 weeks later, he created a PAB. At the beginning, Rival didn't consider there was a problem and replied to me that player had to wait more. When i read the PAB, i was furious and i decided to refund immediately the player account : i informed Rival and, suddenly, Rival learned me that check was blocked due to bank regulation. I think that Rival had to be worry the first time player contacted me : imo, 1 month later the check was sent, it was enough to think there was a serious problem.... In my opinion, there was no need to make this player (and me!) angry in order to understand that problem was serious and had effect on ALL Rival casinos, excepted non white label casinos.

So, as you can read, when i have something to say ; i say it. I'm not satisfied with lack of information from Rival with its white labels and they know my position since several weeks : there is not secret on this point.

By the way, let me tell something : checks blocked are the only one problem that players met, fortunately. In my casino, only 3 players have had this problem and they all withdrawed since with an other solution as ewallets. I don't have the feeling at all that i lost players due to processing problems as checks issuing. We're continuing to accept all deposits made by credit cards and we launch few days ago a new financial method in order to increase our acceptance with credit cards ouf of Europe.

Regarding Europe, Rival will provide soon an excellent processor for all credit cards : believe me, i email them again and again in order to get this solution asap lol

Other thing : as i already told in my posts, gambling is a risky business and you cannot put all problems met on the back of Rival, or on the back of casinos. As i already told, we're all taking some risks by the fact to work in gambling. It's not the Rival fault if some processors stopped or if money has been blocked. The only thing that i personally reproach to Rival is the lack of informations provided to us. This lack of informations from them has been added to the ridiculous idea to apply retroactive deduction with progressive jackpots to affiliates, but one time more, you seem to forget that some white labels fought with Rival in order to obtain the right to not apply retroactive deduction. Do not forget that, at the beginning, Rival ask to all white labels to apply this deduction and we have had to be courageous in order to find the audacity to say to our software provider : "No, sorry. I'm not agree at all and i won't do that."

What i'm trying to mean is that we're your contact, you can give up immediately the hope that Rival will come to post on any forum. They won't. Casinos rep are here for you : we're here in order to communicate with you and we do our best with financial facility we have. Some of us cannot pay commissions on money never received, some of us cannot take at charge progressive deductions past : we don't have all same financial facilities, you cannot ignore it and continue to post, again and again, against Rival or against one of its white label.

As i already told, affiliates whom are complaining about money never received by casinos contribute to enlarge problems that white labels met with Rival. This attitude is not acceptable : you seem to forgot that we work with you, not against you. None of us, you or white labels, can be held responsible of situations came from UIGEA regulations. These problems could be easily guessed since several years : do not forget that Playtech and Microgaming ceased to work in US since a long time. Rival is a survivor from all regulation problem : without Rival group, most of you focused on US market, would have ceased to make money in gambling since a long time. I think it's essential we keep all this notion in mind.

 

[Igaming.pro]

Well. i'm really surprise to find a copy of this current post on http://www.casinomeister.com/forums.../36853-message-rival-white-label-casinos.html .

You're complaining about players lost and you went to post such things in a public forum ESPECIALLY read by YOUR players???? Where is the logic??? More, you're including all white labels to your comments! I need to understand why you're trying to increase problems with such informations provided to players whom are happy with Rival payments??? Do you realise that you're helping players to think : "why i should continue to play in Rival casinos if i risk to no receive my money?" All Rival casinos are continuying to pay players, excluded by checks, so why are you discrediting us?

It's innaceptable. Don't be surprise if some reps decide to stop to post in forums. You're working against yourself and against all Rival brands, including brands whom are not white labels!

One time more : in TRADITION CASINO, all our players are paid in less than 2 days. 3 players didn't received checks, it's true but problem has been solved immediately when i learnt what happened.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Well. i'm really surprise to find a copy of this current post on http://www.casinomeister.com/forums.../36853-message-rival-white-label-casinos.html .

You're complaining about players lost and you went to post such things in a public forum ESPECIALLY read by YOUR players???? Where is the logic??? More, you're including all white labels to your comments! I need to understand why you're trying to increase problems with such informations provided to players whom are happy with Rival payments??? Do you realise that you're helping players to think : "why i should continue to play in Rival casinos if i risk to no receive my money?" All Rival casinos are continuying to pay players, excluded by checks, so why are you discrediting us?

It's innaceptable. Don't be surprise if some reps decide to stop to post in forums. You're working against yourself and against all Rival brands, including brands whom are not white labels!

One time more : in TRADITION CASINO, all our players are paid in less than 2 days. 3 players didn't received checks, it's true but problem has been solved immediately when i learnt what happened.

Igaming.pro, maybe it's the "Nuit Magique" but I am not sure...

First of all, you should re-read my original post again. I was not complaining about players lost at all. Hell, that happened about two months ago. My post was about the lack of communication from Rival regarding stalled and late payments to both players and affiliates. The players will always be happy, win or lose if only they are paid their winnings fast and they are communicated to properly by the correct channels as they should be. I received about 12-14 emails this past week alone from players who had signed up thru me wanting me to help them get their payments from Rival White-Label casinos that are at least 10-14 days old now...if that is not piss poor service on Rivals part then you tell me what is.

The reason for the Post at Casinomeister as well as here was to make damn sure this lack of communication that both the players and affiliates have been experiencing the last two months was clearly heard by Rival!

As an affiliate when I recommend a casino to one of my players or website visitors I need to be damn certain that the casino or in this particular case, the entire group of 'White-Label Rivals' will in fact live up to their stated obligations to both the player and myself as an affiliate. I am also a player, and I will always be a player first!

Now when I do recommend one of these Rival White-Labels to one of my visitors I am also putting my reputation and integrity on the line as well you see. If I cannot believe in the product that I am pimping then it makes it harder for me or us as affiliates to knowingly recommend that product to our guests, our visitors and our players if we are to have any grain of integrity in our bones at all.

I as a Player have now had a cashout in the so called "processing stage" from Royal Apollo Casino for 7 business days now! That also makes 10 total days today! I have only deposited there using Quicktender and I also cashed out using Quicktender. That is totally UNACCEPTABLE Service and should not be tolerated any longer by the players.

On the affiliate side, I have a payment from Fortune Reel casino due me that should have been paid into my Quicktender account by the 15th of the month per our affiliate agreement and here it is the 20th of the month now. That payment is 5 days late! This is totally UNACCEPTABLE again!

Are you starting to see the pattern and the bigger picture here now. You too are a Rival White Label Casino, so how is it that you say you can make payments to players in 2 days but yet the other Rival White labels cannot?

At this point I am in the same boat as Andy stated above, that 90% of my player deposits also have merely vanished now over the last couple of months, so what is Rival going to do for us affiliates to rectify that issue?
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[Guard Dog]

Firstly... to iGaming.Pro..

This message NEEDS to be out there. Problems exist. My payout from all the Rivals I promote (I promote Rivals heavily) has been cut TREMENDOUSLY over the past 2 months because of Rival issues. Affiliates need to know this. I am not the only one here.

Players need to know that problems exist... although, they already know it and even joke about Rival's horrible payout (lately) in private forums.

Rival NEEDS to hear the players complain or they will just sit on their heels and collect deposits (while holding onto payouts for way too long).

It's gotten pretty ridiculous. Yes, we complain. But wouldn't you complain if you suddenly lost 90% of you income?

I'll bet you would, since you complained above about 1 player and the check issue. Just put yourself in the player's and/or the affiliate's shoes here. You might just understand us, then.

Secondly, to TheGamblingGuru...

Great post. You are 100% right on target, IMO.

 

[Igaming.pro]

I won't speak for other white labels, i don't know at all what's happening to them and i hope they will come reply here.

I paid my affiliates 15 or 16 th as usual, so from this side, i don't think there is a problem ( in Igaming.pro, i mean)

Regarding players : few months ago, i made the effort to accept to pay winning in 48H and i did it since the day i decided and informed all players. Btw, Tradition casino don't pay winnings if players didn't provide documents, of course.

In tradition casino, at the moment, we have some transactions blocked with players due to documents not given to us, but that's all : all other players are stricly paid as usual.

So, i read that 1 player from Mayan fortune has not received his money, i saw this complaint in forum, so perhaps Mayan fortune took more time than usual, i don't know but, i repeat : at this time, there is not problem with payments with Rival.

If this player has not been paid or if he received his payment 7 days later, it's probably an internal Mayan fortune fault, not Rival one. In all cases, sorry but it doesn't seem to be so severe if player wait several days too much. The final thing is that he has to obtain his money, right? Everybody can make error, i think, forciori to when payments are not diligented by the white label itself.

So i don't think that all white label have late payments, if not, COME ON all to sign in IGAMING.pro LOL Enjoy Tradition-Casino, the only one brand white label which pay winnings fast!!!

i'm joking, of course Once again : i speak for my casino, we don't experiencing some problems with payments at the moment. If other Rival casinos have such problems, i'd apreciate they take time to post here and explain to us the situation.

 

[Guard Dog]

I won't speak for other white labels, i don't know at all what's happening to them and i hope they will come reply here.

I paid my affiliates 15 or 16 th as usual, so from this side, i don't think there is a problem ( in Igaming.pro, i mean)

Regarding players : few months ago, i made the effort to accept to pay winning in 48H and i did it since the day i decided and informed all players. Btw, Tradition casino don't pay winnings if players didn't provide documents, of course.

That is awesome and it helps affiliates and players tremendously. I commend you for that.

So, i read that 1 player from Mayan fortune has not received his money, i saw this complaint in forum, so perhaps Mayan fortune took more time than usual, i don't know but, i repeat : at this time, there is not problem with payments with Rival.

If this player has not been paid or if he received his payment 7 days later, it's probably an internal Mayan fortune fault, not Rival one.

Somewhat funny here... Don't you think that is contradictory? Especially since Rival runs Pantasia and Mayan Fortune???


Again, though, if Tradition pays in 48 hours - that is great and you are ahead of the pack. But - according to countless posts on CasinoMeister and elsewhere, many white label Rivals are NOT paying within the agreed upon time (2-5 days).

 

[lots0]

igaming.pro

First, I want to Thank You for your first post.
It takes a lot of guts to speak your mind in this business.
You sound like one of the good guys... We need more people like you.

That being said, as much as you want too, you can't separate the RIVAL white labels from each other.

All the white labels will have to live with the reputation that they give each other.

I know you don't want to hear that. But it is the truth.

If some of the white labels go Rogue... You all go ROGUE, in the majority of peoples opinions.

I think your beginning to see that now.

It really sucks to have someone else's bad behavior ruin your business, but that is what is going to happen to you and a few other white labels, if RIVAL does not pull their head out and start making things right.

 

[tryme1]

I find myself in the odd position of agreeing 100% with what Lots0 says and simultaneously agreeing with what you're saying in your first post, IGaming.pro.

I think you've been very forthright and honest, IGaming.pro, especially in your first post in this thread and you've given a useful insight into how it works with being a Rival white label casino.

So, don't think that your point isn't getting across to us as affiliates. I, for one, really appreciate the level of honesty and frankness you've shown here.

But....and I think you were probably expecting a 'but', the fact remains that your software provider is making serious mistakes both in dealing with players and with affiliates.

You've said in this thread that no one from Rival software is willing to comment and, for me, that speaks volumes.

 

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

currently waiting a cash out at box 24, though it is very early.

however I do have some things to say about the way they go about things which rather than write it all again, or provide duplicate content, you can read here if you so choose

http://www.gamblingaffiliateplace.com/every-casino-needs-do-make-life-easier-t2594.html

(if that's a problem, mods can delete it)

............

igaming, you said that

Tradition casino don't pay winnings if players didn't provide documents,

while I wasn't notified of needing to provide any documents, do you know is it a rival-wide requirement the docs must be first sent in?

ifso, there's another thing 24 needs to fix, because I am so far unaware of their needing that.

If I have to write them to find this out, that is not only wrong, but it is completely ignorant because that ensures the casino has pissed off the player before they ever really get a chance to prove their a worthy casino.

if fax-back info is required, the player should be emailed nearly immediately after requesting a cash out since this could easily be automated.

 

[AffiliateWIDE Steve]

Hi Steve

Just read your post over at GAP - as many affiliates make suggestions, we tend to follow through with them; especially as they relate to communication with our players.

Furthermore, on weekends, a payment may take a few hours more as the accounting team puts in fewer hours than they do on business days. You should receive the funds shortly.

As always, we appreciate the suggestions and critique.

Best
Steve

 

[Igaming.pro]

Affiliate guard dog : regarding Pantasia and Mayan, i'm not sure to understand you. I thought they were WL, don't they?

lots0 : Thanks for your post First, i'm not a "guy", i'm a "brick" => girl, i mean lol Regarding your comments : I understand what you meant and i'd like that none WL become rogue... Btw, if it happens, situation will be like playtech or microgaming : you can find serious casinos and not serious at all. As i probably precised, before to launch Tradition i was affiliate and i worked as affiliate nearly 7 years, so i met very trustfull affiliate programs with Playtech by example and i fought with others affiliate programs which were running Platech too. Affiliates see easily which company is serious ;-)

This trust is built on several points : we tried to be different.

- Quick payments : it's true and it's major, so igaming.pro pay affiliates every month at the same date.

- Fast withdrawals : all players whom don't have 2 accounts in
our casino, and whom provide to us documents, receive their winnings in 48H max, excepted week-end because our book-keeper from Rival doesn't work.

- No dark methods with tracking : this transparence with our affiliates was my concern number 1, so we setuped a special system in order to proove to each affiliate that we don't practise shaving or dark methods. Simply make this test : click on your Tradition affiliate banner, you'll be redirected on Tradition casino website. Scroll down the Tradition landing page and you'll see in the footer your personal tracking number, just below our copyright it showed by example : Webmaster: 563211. It means that your tracking is perfectly working and it prooves our honesty ;D Do you know a lot of programs who did that?

- Good schedulle of commissions : we probably have the lower levels from this industry lol We want to permit affiliates to earn interesting percentage as soon as you brought us $5000 deposit
* 1st level: 25% of the casino’s net profits from 0.000 $/£/€ to 5,000 $/£/€
* 2nd level: 30% of the casino’s net profits from 5.001 $/£/€ to 10,000 $/£/€
* 3rd level : 35% of the casino’s net profits above 10,001 $/£/€
More, we decided to offer you 70% 2 times per year, when you want, even on your bigger months : it's very different from programs which are promising 50% or more on your first activity month, right?

tryme1 : I understand you're a bit deceived. i personnaly explained to the Rival owner that it should be very important to communicate with affiliates. I'm waiting for his definitive answer but you have to know that he is very confused and very touched about what is happening. So, please wait a bit, i think that an annuncement will be made soon

bb1webs : unfortunately, i'm affraid that none Rival, WL or not, are abble to pay winnings if documents have not been sent... I agree with you : i think that all casinos have to ask the security documents asap withdrawal is requested for the first time. In Tradition casino, documents are requested the first time only. If player has several withdrawals successfull, it's very rare we requested additional documents, it depends on amount deposited. Btw, do not forget that forgetfulness can happens unfortunately regarding security documents, so never hesitate to ask to the casino why your winnings are not yet received.

 

[nitro2]

This trust is built on several points : we tried to be different.

They really try to be different just take a look at this:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/37010-tradition-casino-likely-all-rival-casinos-rogue-all-evidence-shown-here-2.html"]www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/37010-tradition-casino-likely-all-rival-casinos-rogue-all-evidence-shown-here-2.html

It's a long read but really worth it...

Do not forget to ban me but plz take this as a hint what kind of operations many of you promote...

 

[bonustreak]

I dont know why you think you would be banned over posting a link? I tried to fix it for you but I think you have it to screwed up.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

I dont know why you think you would be banned over posting a link? I tried to fix it for you but I think you have it to screwed up.

I do...


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[TheGamblingGuru]

Here's the link that "Nitro2" tried to post....

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...al-casinos-rogue-all-evidence-shown-here.html
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[Guard Dog]

Thanks for the link, Nitro. I had already read that one and was not impressed with Tradition's support (which is really just Rival support).

 

[bonustreak]

WOW! This was a huge thread but also a very serious one and now I am grateful we have pulled this casino off our sites long ago!

Oh boy this is some serious jacked up stuff!! I hope that other Rival operators jump in here with a quickness to defend their brand or do whatever it takes because if this is happening with all Rivals I have no choice but to pull every single one off my sites, I cannot sit around and let players be cheated! This is just sick and I really hope it is just happening with Tradition who I am not all that happy with anyway and I don't promote because they have given me the wrong vibes from the start up, I just knew some shady owner was behind this operation and now this just proves it to me!

I have said before that Rival should not allow these white labels to adjust the slots and games to their own advantage! If you cannot afford to have a high varience game such as 'Scary Rich' in your casino and you need to lower the max bet to a buck then YOU SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A LICENSE TO OPERATE A DAMN CASINO!

There is no doubt here that cheating is going on with Tradition I urge everyone to pull them off your sites asap!

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
BTW -Rob darling Paradise8 and Cocoa have stepped up a few weeks back and said they are returning the Progressive fees to affiliates

 

[bonustreak]

Ok I have made some calls today and do NOT ask me to disclose where I got this info because I will not.
I have been told that yes each white label can set their own blackjack payouts. Tradition seems to be set at 1:1 payout instead of the regular 3:2. (They are likely the only Rival brand that picked this option) Furthermore after my calls the owners of Rival software were contacted and shown this thread and as a result it was determined that Tradition may have set the payout to 1.1 which was in their rights to do so BUT it was also determined that the felts did not match up so Rival went in and disabled the 1.1, changed it to the 3:2 at Tradition and set BJ to 3:2 at all rival brands
Also since this issue brought to light the point that rules should not ever conflict with the game felts ...now ALL operators must contact Rival to make changes to rules and Rival will first verify whether any graphical changes are necessary before they allow a change.
I personally think this title is a bit off "All Rivals Rogue", not all of the casinos are rogue but let me say Tradition will NEVER be on my sites they have proven to me over and over they do some pretty shady things!!

More info;D