"iGaming Business.. for goodness sake let me unsubscribe"

Discussion in 'General Casino Affiliate Area' started by Vladi, Oct 20, 2011.

  1.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    We have a few "totally private" (well we thought they were) email accounts that are used to occasionally test signing up at various affiliate programs.

    One of them has started receiving repeated email spam from iGaming Business, of IGB Awards and a ridiculous number of conferences fame. It started in the past few weeks, and every time we have unsubscribed which takes you to a webpage where you confirm and you even then receive an email confirmation saying they will not send you any more messages. But the messages just keep coming and coming, 2 more in the inbox this morning after unsubscribing for the third time yesterday.

    The interesting thing is that this test account is not in my name, nor anyone connected to our business. It has only been used to sign up for player accounts several years ago at a few sites and has been basically dormant since. We know for sure there was one Europartners Casino and Intertops Poker. There is no reason whatsoever that this account would have been interested in anything to do with IGB. Yet here they are spamming it repeatedly.

    Their emails all say at the bottom:
    Clearly IGB has bought a list of player accounts from a casino or poker room. While you would think that was a nonsensical purchase to make given that players couldn't give a crap about IGB awards or conferences, I guess that fact that I am here writing this suggests that their have a non zero hit rate. Anyway this is the kind of unethical yet typical behaviour that gives this industry a bad name.

    IGB I suggest you amend your disclaimer to say:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2011
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    That is extremely sad that they are resorting to this :( I would think that they have plenty of ways to target affiliates at their conferences and cannot imagine why they felt this was necessary.

    Disappointing.
     
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    alexpratt

    alexpratt Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Firstly we have never ever ever ever bought a list in our entire lives......frankly why would we?? We have the biggest active database of affiliates in the market..... I would ask you to mail me directly with the address and I will tell you where it came from (alex@igamingbusiness.com)

    I just want to reiterate again We have never and will never buy a list - Just need that to be very clear

    Next the opt out - I completely understand that this is frustrating....We moved to a new email system recently (E-Circle) and the way it works is via lists, so the emails are opted into the correct lists and when you unsubscribe you opt out of that list - If we didn't do it this way it would mean that say you weren't interested in LAC and opted out you would then be opted out of everything from our daily news though to all the other events for ever which is not what the user wants 99% of the time.......

    This is obviously not ideal but when we signed with them we were led to believe they had preference center set up which wasn't, but it is coming and very soon so people can then manage which lists they want to be on or not.

    We take a stern view on spamming and illegal lists particularly as a PLC that has a number of compliance rules but above that personally! We do not ever want to be seen as a spammer as it isn't good for our brand whatsoever and i can guarantee your email will have come to us in the correct manner.

    On a side note - A simple email to me or anyone in the team would have sorted this for you.....you now have my email so please use it as I would like people to know that we are not what you have accused us of and for you to explain that after
     
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    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I am sorry but it is impossible that this email address would ever have been opted-in to any of your lists. It is unused apart from registering at a couple of casinos or poker rooms as a player and the subsequent necessary correspondence to and from those sites. In fact the last email received on this specific address before your spam started was dated April 30, 2008. Apart from testing affiliate programs, we use these addresses to give us an idea of who is doing this exact sort of thing. The address is not connected with any affiliate account, website or business that could be identified as having anything to do with iGaming. I am in absolutely no doubt about that. There is no mistake.

    So whether you bought, sold, rented, or were given the address is immaterial. The address should not have been on any of your lists. Furthermore your opt-out process does not work at all. If I understand your attempted explanation properly, your are sending emails to multiple lists, so somehow this address has been subscribed to at least 5 of these lists at once? Yet it is impossible to unsubscribe from them all at once? Come on, it is 2011 not 1996. If you're going to spam people you can expect to have to deal with it in public, too bad if you don't like it. Of course a private email would have had the address off all your lists immediately. That does not solve the problem though does it?
     
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    alexpratt

    alexpratt Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    As I said give me the honour of sending me your email address and i will tell you and the forum exactly how you are in the system and what you are subscribed to.

    There is zero point you going round in circles making slanderous remarks without giving me a chance to make amends.
     
  6.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I am not prepared to give you the email address for a few reasons:

    1. As I stated we use these addresses as a means for testing affiliate programs and finding out which programs are selling/leaking/losing player info. As such their value is in their secrecy.

    2. I have absolutely zero doubt that what I have told you about the account here is correct. As such I won't believe any contrary explanation you come up with. Frankly I would be shocked if you came back here after flatly denying this, and explaining the reasons why you could never admit to doing this in public anyway, and said "oh sorry you know what there was this one time we bought a list...".

    I have even gone back through the mail archive and worked out exactly which sites were signed up to with this account:
    - Intertops Poker
    - EuroGrand casino
    - Super Slots Casino
    - Casino Del Rio

    This was all done in 2007 and 2008. That is it. I am actually surprised that it has taken this long to leak given the reputation of some of the the programs that run a couple of those places.

    I tell you what, lets try to think of a possible way this address could have ended up on only your multiple lists without you "acquiring" it. Let me see:

    - an employee of one of the sites it was used on deliberately signed up to your lists using the address, but not for any other purpose.
    - the sites were hacked and someone used the stolen address to sign up to your lists, but not for any other purpose.

    I'll concede either is possible, though I cannot think for the life of me why someone would do that with someone else's address. Maybe they really, really dislike you guys and are trying to get you in trouble? No other spam of any sort has ever been received at the address. None. So while it is possible, it is also possible that there is an invisible giant pink elephant floating above your left shoulder as you read this that disappears every time you turn around to see it, but it isn't very likely.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
  7.  
    alexpratt

    alexpratt Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    This thread is then frankly pointless, you have made accusations and jumped to conclusions but are refusing to provide me with proof or evidence so i can prove you wrong..

    If you gave me the email I could tell you what account it's associated with, when it signed up, what and when it unsubscribed, etc. Etc. And I would happily involve Andrew as an independent if that makes you feel better

    For all I know, this could be complete fabrication to discredit us.....

    Either way it is very evident you don't want this sorted but simply want to complain

    Until you back this up with providing the specific email this thread is null and void
     
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    OFCwolf

    OFCwolf New Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    Thought I would throw in two cents. I am not saying what happened one way or another, as I have no idea. What I will say is this: I have personally known Alex for about 7 years. He is a stand-up guy and has always handled business matters with me with integrity. I can also say the same for all members of iGB staff that I have personally dealt with.

    I can personally vouch for his honor, that he will simply use that email address to get to the bottom of this issue and nothing else.

    I don't think him asking for this is unfair, nor do I think it should be a problem. Give him a chance to defend his business. I think any of us would ask the same.
     
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    TGP

    TGP Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I back OFCwolf comment, there is no way that Alex would do such a thing or anyone in IGB, if there is a group that is trying to keep this industry clean its them! If I were you I would have check this as much as I can before pointing fingers.

    If you don't want to email him what you received from IGB send it to me, I am an Affiliate like you, I would be angry like you if I got spammed to an email that never been used accept for testing, so let me see what you got.


     
  10.  
    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    I can understand why your upset, I get spam myself every single day, I just chuck into junk and be done with it. As others have said I don't think Alex would ever intentionally spam anyone he does not have the heart to use black hat tactics, as you can clearly see he takes things to heart and just wants to sort this out with you. If your not willing to give the addy used so he can discover what has happened I consider this case closed no need to go on about it.

    Also Alex has agreed there is an issue with the unsubscribe maybe your attention to that will get the team at IGB to find a better solution.
     
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    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    I think you can trust Alex to give him the address privately and let him investigate how it got into the data base.

    It's the only way to solve this.
     
  12.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Sorry. Not possible with this email address. As far as I am concerned they either acquired the address, or someone maliciously added it to their list. I know which is the far more likely explanation. I have better things to do than deliberately stir up trouble for no reason with someone I have never met, and whose business is an irrelevance to mine. Everyone else can draw their own conclusion.
     
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    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    FWIW if you signup as a player you WILL get spam from other places too and one can probably never tell where it came from.

    I have new email addresses and all got spammy emails after signup at a CR casino eg.
     
  14.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    You can tell where it came from - if you go to the trouble of setting up a couple hundred different email addresses and keep a record of where you signed up on each address. That is exactly what we have done and why I am so certain that what I say here is true.

    Pro-tip if you use gmail and want to do similar quickly and easily, you only need one account. Just add a "+sitename" to the end of the first part of your email address and it will still deliver to you. eg "myaddress@gmail.com" becomes "myaddress+betslime@gmail.com" if you're signing up at BetSlime (made that up). And if myaddress+betslime@gmail.com starts getting spammed, you know BetSlime sold you out.

    (That is not what was done in this case, in case Alex is searching through his list trying to work out which address it was)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
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    ocportal

    ocportal Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I received emails from the igaming business as well, never signed up, maybe they don't buy email lists but get them for free lol
     
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    FictionNet

    FictionNet Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Tricky one. Vladi sounds genuine. I don´t know him but at the very least, I believe that HE believes what he´s saying. Like he says, why would he waste his time?

    Then there´s Alex. I don´t particularly know him in great detail either but his reputation is up there with the best. I believe what he´s saying too.

    I totally understand Vladi not wanting to hand over the e-mail addy for the same reasons that I wouldn´t give my addy to Fortune when they kept spamming me for many, many years. Yes, they´ll be able to remove the addy but you won´t know if they´re still spamming - and it pays to know who´s spamming (so you can avoid promoting them).

    On this occasion, Vladi, perhaps hand over the e-mail addy and see what Alex comes up with. It might throw things in a different direction.
     
  17.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Oh for crying out loud ... got another email from them today. :(
     
  18.  
    alexpratt

    alexpratt Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Honestly this is absolutely ridiculous

    Vladi - As you say we have your email - If you tell me I can tell you very quickly

    Where you signed up
    What you have and haven't opted out of including exactly when

    ocportal - Same to you please send me the email and I will give you the facts

    If I am honest I am getting a little peed off with this thread as you have accused us of something that is actually illegal and in my opinion extremely serious and then not allowed me to defend myself so I have no way of clearing my brands name......

    I know for a fact all the emails we have are clean so I know this thread is pointless - All I want to do is prove this correct and you won't let me.

    Where is the solution?

    Also - Why would I have dodgy emails? As I say our list is pretty dam extensive with 6 years of publishing and events in the affiliate market and 10 years of events and publishing in the iGaming market....

    I also am fully aware:

    Affiliates track their emails so would never do this as I know people get caught
    Spamming doesn't work in a b2b environment
    Affiliates are our number on client hence why we do everything free for them so why would I want to piss them off?

    Honestly this is going nowhere if you aren't prepared to let me prove you are wrong.....
     
  19.  
    pdjoe

    pdjoe Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    If it was me and what I used to do at least every 6 months is send out a validation mail to all subscribers. If they didn't validate, they were removed from my lists.

    No need to unsubscibe, its done auto. Thats just part of maintaining a good email Campaign.

    Double opt in and sending validations on a regular basis is the way to do it right.
     
  20.  
    pdjoe

    pdjoe Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Previous post was also meant for an alternative solution to Vladi giving up personal info.

    Hope it helps you both!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011

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