Idea to defend ourselves in hostile industry

[WCD Admin]

This sounds SIMPLE and DOABLE, without much cost at all. This is more of an idea about what to do IF we catch someone cheating.

in CSS its easy to make a DIV layer hidden or visible.

PLEASE READ

1. we create a master CSS file which contains every affiliate program, and only one piece of style data for each: hidden or visible

2. we make a logical naming method for these so you can easily create the proper DIV wrapper without having to consult a list.

3. we wrap casino links and text associated with the programs DIV name. we can do this passively as we update and build new sites.

4. we link to the master CSS file and the programs casinos will show if okay, or be hidden if a program had been blacklisted.

5. voting would take place to hide a program, with at least 3/4 majority to make something happen.

6. IF a program goes bad AND voters agree, the CSS file is updated and all links to the program are deactivated instantly

7. we can create a separate program to count everyone who is participating, it could even visit our sites and count the DIV codes to get specific numbers of specific links to specific programs from specific sites to scare the living shit out a program who was even thinking about stealing.

Notes:

Before votes, all members would be fully briefed on what was going on (provided with links to discussions / evidence of wrong doing) regarding the "complaints" - and plenty of time to perform a complete vote.

The CSS file would need to be well protected and maybe AGD should create a script like the T&C monitor to watch the CSS file itself for changes and alert ALL members the moment it is touched. *to eliminate anyone tinkering*

I'm thinking the Affiliate Forum Alliance is a great place to do the voting if we have access to use this - it also brings the greater community together to make a stand.

The cells of the affiliate body need to awaken and realize we are one. We are not going to survive here as individuals.​

 

[bonusgeek]

I don't quite understand WCD. Where is the rope a dope punch that we give to programs caught cheating? I don't think deactivating a link is going to keep any program honest. I think to be effective we need to punch them in the mouth with major negative exposure if they are caught stealing. We just need to simplify that process so everyone can pitch in without having to manually update everything.

 

[WCD Admin]

It's not deactivating a single link - its deactivating ALL of our links. From one MASTER css file. In a single INSTANT. That would not require individual people to remove ads, alter code, etc.... we vote, and if they are voted out - POOF - traffic gone in an instant.

Not dragged out while they dream up a new affiliate program name, devise more strategies, cut deals with bigger sites not to punish them, etc.The idea of this is when voting commences the program better do something and QUICK. The idea of course is that they are afraid to be voted on and stop doing shafty things.

Right now we have no weapon or unity. This creates both.

 

[bonusgeek]

My bad Bernie, I see what you mean now. Can this be done without interfering with the existing look of the website? For example some affiliates use nice buttons in their css for links. Others have links in tables, some use different colors and fonts for links.

 

[WCD Admin]

Yes. No interference with your website styles at all. Basically you put DIV tags around whatever you want to disappear in the event a program went rogue. The vote occurs that makes the program get on the blacklist and presto, every ones links disappear.

In addition if you were really unhappy with the way a vote went you could easily remove your DIV tags whenever you felt it was necessary not to ban a program from your site. So no one but you ultimately controls your site.

 

[GFPC]

Sounds interesting. I wish I could see an example of this!! The easier something like this to implement the better of course.

 

[WCD Admin]

For example put this in an html file and run it. See what happens:

<div style="visibility:visible">This will show up</div>
<div style="visibility:hidden">This will NOT show up</div>

- so in principle that's how it works. You can see that this is just a simple CSS tag that can hide or reveal entire blocks of HTML code. So the idea is: as you update your sites or build new ones - you wrap links with this special DIV - each program would have its own. for example look at this code:

<link href="https://www.affiliateguarddog.com/blacklist.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
<div class="affiliatewide">
<a href="http://spartanslots.com/a/23423">Spartan Slots</a>
</div>

The CSS would be in an external file sheet stored on (for example) AGD. It would look something like this:

.affiliatewide {visibility:visible}
.goldenmatrix {visibility:hidden}
.rewardsaffiliates {visibility:visible}

Depending on the status of this ONE file, everyone's links for an offending program could vanish instantly.

 

[arkyt]

This is a dog eat dog industry - nearly everyone is out for themselves, as long as they are making good money they couldnt care less that others are getting shafted.

IMO, you'll never get everyone agreeing to drop a program like that ... if affiliates ABC are making no money it will be easy for them to drop, but if affiliates XYZ are making good money - no way will they drop the program - they'd just go in and remove the div tags.

 

[lots0]

With this method you run the risk of google penalizing you for Hidden content.

"hidden' Div tags are a bad idea anytime with googles attitude toward hidden content.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Hi All,

Blacklisting & or ostracising programs & or gaming venues doesn't work. If it did, Virtual Casino Group would have closed years ago! Sure these lists advice people and they may keep a few away but most times they do the complete opposite.

For those who've been around the industry for years, you'll know what arkyt says is true.

This is a dog eat dog industry - nearly everyone is out for themselves, as long as they are making good money they couldnt care less that others are getting shafted.

IMO, you'll never get everyone agreeing to drop a program like that ... if affiliates ABC are making no money it will be easy for them to drop, but if affiliates XYZ are making good money - no way will they drop the program - they'd just go in and remove the div tags.

lots0 wraps it all into context...

You can look to gpwa and see all the problems that trying to build a network of affs can cause... it's like herding cats, independent and suspicious cats...

If I had a buck for every time someone's tried to rally affiliates back to back...well I wouldn't be here posting this, I'd be laying on a beach somewhere!

However my proposal to damage these clip joints is viable. It does not require en mass to make it work. Besides main stream media these days are interested.

Present a solution which can busts these thieves. In addition have a small crew who will submit Press Releases to main stream media day in, day out. I can say with confidence do this and the crooked affiliate program(s) will take notice and fix up their act.

To take action like this we don't need hundreds of webmaster, we just need a committed group of people (affiliates) who can donate an hour a day to this project - if and when Press Releases need to be sent out.

Take this course of action & go hard at it for a couple of weeks and watch the thieves fall into line. Do it a couple of times and I doubt too many other programs would risk running the gauntlet with us.

Edit: If programs/casinos/gaming properties are aware we can hit them at any times with players all over the world to test their tracking, and if they get busted shafting, they'll be on our hit list, this is a ideal method in keeping the bastard honest.


Cheers



Dave

 

[WCD Admin]

Arkyt: Yes, you can remove the DIV tags -- we don't want anyone damaged if the family meal is dependent on a program. Exactly what is the problem with leaving people in control of their websites? I thought people would like that. To your other point: just like it is unlikely that we all act as a unified group in deleting all of our links at once when a program goes rogue, (due to time constraints, hidden deep links, etc) it is also quite unlikely that people will (or even have the ability to) rush out and delete all the DIVs at once. This could be a serious threat for a program.

No single solution will be a perfect silver bullet - So those looking for one should give up now. But, this could be a very nice tool in our war chest. It will be as powerful as people want to make it. I suggest high enthusiasm instead of self-fulfilling prophesy!

Lots0: There is no penalty that I'm aware of unless you are using these techniques to gain in the SE's in an underhanded way. Pokerlistings.com (PR7) uses this in their navigation (so do we) and they seem to be doing well. Penalties are usually done by hand (because of the nature of broadly wiping out legit sites) and have to do with the INTENTION of the webmaster. This is NOT cloaking which would be replacing the text Google sees with something different to try to inflate your ranking for content that does not exist.

AussieDave:

Blacklisting & or ostracising programs & or gaming venues doesn't work. If it did, Virtual Casino Group would have closed years ago! Sure these lists advice people and they may keep a few away but most times they do the complete opposite

But your idea looks like you are suggesting that we do just that! (write articles and ostracize the offenders) - which for the record I think does help, but it also can have the opposite effect as you mention - because it brands these casinos... later on a person knows they heard the name somewhere, but most forgot WHY, so it can be a double-edged sword.

-------------------------

My idea is free. It unifies link removal (10000s of links removed in seconds not months!). My idea maximizes punch by not allowing programs the time they need to re-think, re-strategize, re-brand or make backroom deals with affiliates. My idea has real teeth. My idea saves everyone time and effort when removing links of rogue programs. My idea (implemented) is a deterrent to programs actually thinking of trying underhanded techniques. It hits the bottom line and that is all these crooks care about.

You must realize the power of instant deactivation in order to understand this idea fully. Will it be a perfect weapon tomorrow? No. How about in 3 years? with say 10% of gpwa, gia, gap, cap, pap, pal, agd, members participating?

I'd think twice about screwing around with a bunch of webmasters who had the power to deactivate a 100,000 links in one second.

Is this really the motivation of this community? I'm sad to see these lukewarm responses. We have some the loudest voices in the affiliate industry talking about corruption right now (a good thing!) But no one coming in here to support a valid way to deal with these guys starting today. This is an idea that would give us a technical weapon to use against offenders. It costs nothing. The worst part is the reasoning I'm seeing here: "because no one will" or "google might get mad" - and so far not one member saying "I'd give it a shot if it works"

Guys, don't make affiliates disappear with your minds. This stuff isn't rocket science, its called participation.

Who'd think I was stupid enough to tango with Lots0, AussieDave and Arkyt all at once? Now you know! Disagree as I may, I know we're all on the same side. Let the flogging begin ;D

 

[Aussie-Dave]

AGuys, don't make affiliates disappear with your minds. This stuff isn't rocket science, its called participation.

It's not about changing people's minds, people can do what they want - most gaming affiliates usually do.

Reiterating the concept is a good one. However history in this industry tells me getting affiliates to band together has never, ever, worked. Not only do you propose affiliates band together but also add coding to their sites.

And if you do manage to get some affiliates on board, those they make money out of XYZ are likely to disable to code. Seems to me like a lot of effort with no guaranteed out come.

But if you think you can make a go of it, go for it!



Cheers



Dave

 

[WCD Admin]

The idea basically is not to go out and add a bunch of code (if you do - that's great!) - the idea is passively, as you add content to your sites, or build new sites, or remodel old sites, you start adding this in. Over time without anyone breaking their backs, we have a force to be reckoned with. But I guess that is worthless because of all the back breaking work involved.

To reiterate exactly how much work this is:

<div class=casinorewards></div>

Holy shit!!

 

[Guard Dog]

Let's not lose sight of a great idea here. We need something to use in this industry to help fight the good fight. I do not have a ton of time at the moment, but think that good ideas need to be fostered.

Let's come up with something that can be implemented and used for the good of us all. Whatever we can do to protect ourselves now will help in the long run. I will back any such ideas and have my programmer(s) work on a solution to help us out.

 

[WCD Admin]

It would be really easy and not very time-consuming at all. You make one single css file that list all programs. Rogue ones are invisible, others are visible. Everyone calls this external css file from the AGD site, and wraps their codes as described.

The simplicity is what makes this a viable tool - and we could put it to use NOW. But if no one participates (which makes Arkyt analysis 100% right), it is worthless. It's not doing much for my motivation to see so few positive responses. It doesn't motivate me to participate in others more far-fetched ideas. I'm not going to waste time/resources to do complex things (instead of making money) while free/simple tools that can begin to give us a foothold are being overlooked.

I'm amazed at the complaining on the board and the lack of enthusiasm for a tool that could actually help. 8) Going to work on my sites now.

 

[arkyt]

I agree with Dave ... even if its the best idea in the world, without mass unity / usage it wouldnt amount to much. So first you have to get the masses to agree on taking action - thats the first and the most difficult step. In this dog eat dog world its just not going to happen.

Bernie, its a lot more time-consuming that you might think... upfront you would have to go in and surround every single location where a casino is listed with those div tags. Heck you might even have to do a complete redesign depending on how your site is layed out. It does sound like a very efficient concept once everything is in place, but theres a lot of work getting it ready - not to mention getting enough people to follow suit to make it worthwhile.

 

[WCD Admin]

<cough><cough>I have to say, I've never seen a plan so simple, free, and if exercised properly so potentially effective ever suggested on a forum. </cough></cough>I don't mean to be vein, I am more marveling at the lack of momentum affiliates have, than I am my idea.
<cough><cough>
The people who are negative about its success are only right because of the lack of people being positive about its success.

The only valid argument against it was Arkyt's. "That people won't participate so it won't work." - So by no means was this idea defeated by intellect but by stubborn affiliates who can't see the ground disappearing under their feet.

Whip me, Beat me -- but don't cry later. Cause if you think the pool is going to become less shark infested....
</cough></cough>

 

[Aussie-Dave]

Let's not lose sight of a great idea here.

Reiterating the concept is a good one.

My point is...Lets say XYZ casino is shafting me...However XYZ casino brings in a good chunk of changes not only to me but also to other webmasters using this action plan.

The likelihood is...the only people who will yank the program are those who are making stuff all from it. How's that going to help us? Where is the benefit in that?

I still believe the GAU has the best option to leverage and force change. However with Terry basically running it by himself, he can't cover all bases and then operate his own sites too.

What seems to be the downfall of all these type of webmaster support programs is lack of time. They simply don't have the funds to employ people on a full time basis much less part time. However if a group of trusted webmasters could volunteer some time into the GAU it would allow the program to function as it should.

I don't see the point in re-inventing the wheel. When what we are discussing here is supposed to be exactly why the GAU was founded in the first place.


Cheers



Dave

 

[WCD Admin]

Read my signaure: "You can get more with GAU and a tool that can effect the casinos bottom line than you can from the GAU alone"

You say: we don't have time
Answer: this is a passive exercise that over time will yield strong results. Wrap your links in DIVs when you see them, build new sites or remodel.

You say: who will?
Answer: you may have noticed that I have made complaints last week in the forums about CB, BCP, VA and CAS. Collectively our company will have profited about $15,000 from these programs in October. WE pulled them. That's commission AFTER shaving, and not even deposits which were about 40k in deposits x 12 months = half a million a year. I am ONE affiliate.

You say: "yank" the program?
Answer: that's the point! This tool requires nothing of the sort. Thistool does not require ANY manual "yanking" which has been the whole problem of boycotts.The links disappear in one single instant! The tool does everything for us. That's the point: saves time, acts in unity and in an INSTANT delivers the "rope-a-dope punch" someone was looking for! No one has to go DO anything when a program goes bad, that's the beauty!
You say: believe the GAU has the best option to leverage & force change.
Answer: you think that people claiming they will take links and writing articles will force a program to change more than saying we have a tool that will be taking down a 100,000 links in exactly ONE SECOND if you don't comply - will be more effective?

Used to be that people would not band together because no one wanted to give up control of their site to a "group" - this tool protects you and leaves you 100% in charge of your sites. It's free. It galvanizes our industry in a GOOD way. So whats the real beef? For someone who birthed the GAU, I cannot believe what I'm reading from you. It's been a real turn-around and come-down from the Dave I knew.

The programs are looking at the bigger picture. If we turn them off after a violation/vote, that means tomorrow they wake up with A LOT LESS MONEY. That is pressure. Pressure is required for force.

 

[Aussie-Dave]

You say: "yank" the program?
Answer: that's the point! This tool requires nothing of the sort. Thistool does not require ANY manual "yanking" which has been the whole problem of boycotts.The links disappear in one single instant! The tool does everything for us. That's the point: saves time, acts in unity and in an INSTANT delivers the "rope-a-dope punch" someone was looking for! No one has to go DO anything when a program goes bad, that's the beauty!

I say: - Your still missing my point ;D

Which is...

Yes, you can remove the DIV tags

I am currently looking at all the possible contingencies. Which I'm not too sure you have yet...If that makes me the cynic I'd rather be that, than jump in feet first and throw caution to the wind.

For the record I didn't say it was a bad idea - hopefully I wont have to repeat that too many more times



Cheers



Dave