How are you doing with Rival?

Discussion in 'General Casino Affiliate Area' started by WCD Admin, Jun 18, 2009.

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    TheGamblingGuru

    TheGamblingGuru Turning Over Stones

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    I asked these couple of questions in RED back on June 22nd as you can see in the original post above but yet no one or any Rep either even bothered to reply..:confused:

    So I will give it one more shot here..

     
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    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    One thing I don't like about the software is the boring ancient IE type notifications when free spins are hit. How exciting is that grey box?

    Fireworks should go off when you hit free spins, anticipation should go up, suspense should peak.

    Yet every new slot still uses that ugly old boring box.

    That's my only issue with the software...
     
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    TheGamblingGuru

    TheGamblingGuru Turning Over Stones

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    One more question John, or any Rival Rep for that matter that is willing to answer.

    Why is it that Rival is the dominate software provider that everyone is always hearing about players getting bonus banned at their casinos? We hardly if ever hear of this at RTG or MG casinos.

    What is the common denominator behind all of these bonus bannings and why offer them in the first place if we are going to constantly see these types of reactions and threads and the loss of players and the others players getting pissed off about it when they hear?

    Actually, that was two more questions..:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2009
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    RockbetJohn

    RockbetJohn Rockbet Affiliate Manager

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    These questions are all over the place and on top of that they are not one liner questions either.

    Why are Rivals having more players pissed off on forums? Maybe because there are not many US casinos left in the market. If you look before MG and Playtechs left you'll find worse threads than players being bonus banned, how about money confiscated with the casino pointing to a vague T&C saying they can do whatever they want. Rival are probably better at detecting bonus abuse and most of these players that do complain at CM when I look at their accounts it's either bonus abuse or multiple accounts, not all the time but most. Keep in mind I got into the industry as a bonus hunter so I've seen the whole spectrum of players. Slotocash doesn't bonus ban as many players, however I know many affiliates who are not happy with their earnings there. They do very well as a program but imagine if you had a bonus hunter on your account knocking off $ from the commissions you made from a lot of players. You would be asking me to whack that player off of your account fairly quickly. I don't apologize for this and I don't have time to argue with these players. If Rival didn't know how to treat any players decently we would be out of biz long ago and if you think of the some of the softwares that have failed or MGs that have also failed I think Rival are doing a good job.

    Irish luck fiasco I don't think this is an issue at all. Most players don't read the forums and if it was such a significant factor I think all Microgamings would be out of business with Grand Prive ripping off millions from affiliates. Look at 2 accredited casino groups, fortunelounge and casinocoins. casinocoins I regard as one of the top programs in the industry but take these 2 programs and look at their history at casinomeister in the past 4 years. The irish luck fiasco was nothing in comparison, besides the irish luck thing was sorted out and nobody was ripped off.

    What slot updates are you referring to?

    Progressive jackpot payouts are being dealt with but I don't see this as an item that would destroy player values. It is being sorted but keep in mind with one giant win a lot of money has to be collected from many processors then wired to the one where the player wants to get paid out. Have a look at some of the other software providers that have had casinos go belly up because of jackpot wins. Why isn't this a bigger issue? If it was then nobody would ever play a microgaming.

    Last, I'm trying to help guys but I feel like I'm getting attacked on this issue esp from GamblingGuru. Once again if you want to ask some questions contact me personally. You all know I am not forum shy but most of these discussions are sensitive and I am not disclosing anything for casino data, processing information or player info. I think many of these questions could be asked for other programs as well.

    John
     
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    TheGamblingGuru

    TheGamblingGuru Turning Over Stones

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    John, WTF ?? Dude ..you can't possibly be that sensitive can you..:confused:

    I am simply just asking a few questions here and I also believe that I asked them in a polite manner as well. If you don't or choose not to answer them..then fine, but don't come back with some lame line that I am attacking you here for gawds sake!!

    Are you serious man?? :rolleyes:
     
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    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    I do see John's point. It's not fun having all these questions launched at once, I've been there. :p It gets overwhelming and then one feels like one is on the defense.

    I am very glad to have John here trying to help answer the basic question - why Rival didn't jump right into the spot Microgaming vacated.

    And I think I did get the answer that makes sense to me - processing issues.

    And that is a very complicated issue with UIGEA around, and can't be discussed in public for obvious reasons.

    It does look like UIGEA is on the butcher block. Let's hope the dismantling of that nonsensical, vague and unenforceable law is speedy.
     
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    TheGamblingGuru

    TheGamblingGuru Turning Over Stones

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    Well, just to recap here..I asked three (3) questions today with the exception of the two (2) that I had previously asked back on June 22nd...If that's considered overwhelming or attacking then I am man enough to say that I am sorry and I apologize to all the other forum members here for asking what I thought to be relevant questions...It won't happen again! :eek:

    1. Is there going to be another processor added besides Pantasia?

    2. Why is it that Rival is the dominate software provider that everyone is always hearing about players getting bonus banned at their casinos?

    3. What is the common denominator behind all of these bonus bannings and why offer them in the first place if we are going to constantly see these types of reactions and threads and the loss of players and the others players getting pissed off about it when they hear?
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I think John is doing a superb job of answering so far - thanks for that! I could tell from my phone that the tone could be construed as frustrated on both ends of this :) Let's just try to be conscious that these issues can put folks on each side on the defensive.

    Its hard to show sensitivity online... So when we all respond, let's just reread our own posts before hitting 'Submit Reply'. We can all use a little re-wording now and again to keep our topics productive.

    Sorry to derail!! Carry on and have a great July 4th!!! Fireworks starting in Wisconsin soon!
     
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    TheGamblingGuru

    TheGamblingGuru Turning Over Stones

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    John, I'm still really bothered by your post man and you thinking that I was attacking you. After all the times that I have stood up for you and your programs over at Casinomeister and most of the time I would be the only one "Thanking" your post over there and then this is the Fu**ing thanks I get eh?? ..:mad:

    If you thought I was attacking you then you may need to sit down to read this latest one there...

    HI! I need a friendly advice regarding payment delay at Rockbet - Page 3 - Casinomeister's Online Casino and Poker Forum
     
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    That's a savvy bunch of seasoned players at CM, I wouldn't take what they say lightly.
     
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    RockbetJohn

    RockbetJohn Rockbet Affiliate Manager

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    GamblingGuru: I am not upset at you but I do wish you would ease off a little on the questions and give me a break. It was tough finding all of your questions and you posted a second time highlighting in red what was not answered and I took my time to help and it's impossible to give 1 line answers either. Most of your questions seem to target Rival with some of them implying that Rival doesn't know what it's doing but to answer the questions properly would prove that they do and now it's becoming an argument. Some of your questions involve sensitive information which I already stated I will not post on a forum. I'll give you my personal phone number if you want to chat or I could answer some by email. I will do that for most of the affiliates I know here as long as I know who you are and I will even meet in person at most of the conferences. I just hope you respect that I did take the time to try to help and answer your questions when most affiliate managers would never bother.

    back to the discussion:

    I think I did a good job to try to answer how good most Rival programs are and to answer Dominique's question of why are Rival not replacing MGs right away. That on it's own is a complex answer but processing is always an issue but those are being worked out. Player values I think are good at most Rivals but of course affiliates need to decide which programs are worth their time and traffic. I never said my programs were the best or Rival software was, I said I think some of them are pretty good and if anybody asks me who the top 3 programs are in the biz I'll give you my honest answers and at the moment none of them are Rivals. I do think Rivals are of course worth promoting and have written more below.

    Most of the questions more or less are asking why should you promote Rivals and try to assess the player values. I would like to say that if I were an affiliate right now I wouldn't promote every Rival as I think some Rival programs are stronger than others, you would do the same for Microgaming or other software providers. But here are my points about most Rival casinos:

    +No issues of players being ripped off (bonus hunters will be bonus banned but always paid)
    +No issues of software being rigged to rip off players (if you want to see one of casinomeister's certified programs look for their threads about fortunelounge or englishharbour)
    +Most if not all Rivals have very friendly T&Cs as you can see by the ratings at AGD. Most of them to my knowledge don't have negative carry over and no predatory terms and you don't have this for the players whereas other programs have used generic terms to keep player funds and point to a term saying we do whatever we feel like
    +Rivals won't let their operators go rogue and have done a good job to prevent this which is why the Irish Luck situation got solved.

    Do Rivals provide the best player values? I don't think so and I also don't believe this can be achieved over night either but I think Rivals give good value for your traffic. Based on performance from affiliate feedback the top 3 affiliate programs are not Rivals and I never said Rival was the best. I do feel there are many good reasons for promoting Rivals but you don't need to put all your eggs in one basket. If you want answers or ways of improving player values with your program just ask your AM and see if they can help, or at least be able to provide some answers.

    John
     
  12.  
    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    Over the years, one thing I have learned is that it often pays off eventually to support a decent program that is not flourishing yet.

    So I tend to stick around to see how things go. And I will do so with Rival.
     
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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    perhaps the retention team is focusing on retaining untagged players/signups.
     
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    RockbetJohn

    RockbetJohn Rockbet Affiliate Manager

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    I don't get what your problem is but I see this as a cheap shot and I'm out of here. Ironically enough you have 2 Rival banners at the top of your website and if you truly believe that my program or any Rivals would treat untagged players better than tagged you are out of your mind especially untagged players make up a very small % of the traffic to the casinos.

     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Let's keep this conversation cordial, please.

    I believe John has given us a lot of good information here and we should respect the fact that he is more than willing to help us all out with this information.

    Obviously Rival is working on retention for all players. Untagged, Tagged - I doubt that is part of their retention algorithm. It just wouldn't make sense for ANY software to do that.

    No need for cheapshots... I think Rival is doing a great job of being a competitor to Microgaming and I think that it will only get better. The programs are the ONLY mainstream software company with ALL affiliate-friendly terms.

    This is largely due to the standard set of terms set out by Rival.

    I think they deserve a little more credit here. They have improved dramatically since day 1. I know because I promoted 400Affilaites when they first came out and have made a decent amount of income from Rival properties with plenty of players playing for long periods of time. So - retention, while not perfect, is still better than other places.
     
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    wow it wasn't meant as a cheap shot. In any event, it makes perfect business sense in a bad economy as a cost cutting measure.
     
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    I appreciate John's posts here, and I wish more affiliate managers would be as open as he is. I hope you'll stick around, John. ;)
     
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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    John is always being abused the poor guy I hope he sticks around too! I also want to add in that I think Rival has a flaw in the system when they are trying to determine who is a bonus abuser and who isn't. I have had too many players being called abusers when they are not.

    I think we are seeing a drop in income because each time a new Rival opens if our players open an account there most of the time they are closed down at all Rivals for duplicate accounts or called abusers. I have seen this trend and I know players are too lazy to contact each casino to plead their case, why do that when it is easier to just say f' it and find a new casino to play in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
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    TheGamblingGuru

    TheGamblingGuru Turning Over Stones

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    Maybe I am wrong here but I thought that the purpose of being an affiliate manager and also a casino manager and further being part of this forum was to in fact help your customers and affiliates out by answering a couple of questions every now and then..:rolleyes:

    Surely this is not the best we can expect from a "professional" and also an affiliate manager, is it. That line "I'm out of here" reminds me of Cartman on South Park when he tells Stan and Kyle..."Screw you guys, I'm going home"..lol

    xxxhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEKTSO1scaI

    John, in all due respect, I think you tend to take way too much of this stuff personal and see statements made as a personal attack on you and not as just general inquisitive questions or statements. You have got to get over this my friend and stop wearing your feelings on your shoulders like a teenager. I hope you take this as what it is..."Constructive Criticism" only, nothing more and nothing less. Toughen up that outer layer of skin a little bit.

    Ok, I'm ready for the slamming and flamm-ing now from the rest of you guys for posting what I'm sure others here are thinking as well but would never state..:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009

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