Casinos, numbers and trust

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by Thomas Andreas, Oct 19, 2018.

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    Thomas Andreas

    Thomas Andreas Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Sometimes I login to the backend, I look at the numbers and it feels off.
    Like something isn't right.
    the problem is I dont really know. I was wondering is there something in particular you can look at to determine if something is in fact inaccurate - and you have been cheated... Because otherwise, it is just you say and they say. And they say, no everything is correct, you cannot do anything really, right, you just have to trust.

    Of course the additional problem is that if you in fact get proof that something is off and you are being cheated. What do you do now. I mean the only option is to really stop working with them, right...
     
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    NDG

    NDG Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    You'll never really know what is going on.. especially with the affiliate programs that don't provide detailed statistics. You
    just have to trust your gut instinct. Work with multiple affiliate programs that cater to players in the same regions, and
    then analyze the data every month to get a basic idea of what the general expectation should be. Some affiliate programs
    convert better than others.. but after you've been doing this for a while.. it's easier to see when things aren't going right.

    The only real option is to quit working with them if you think something isn't right. There is no good reason to keep sending
    them players that you could send elsewhere.. if they are shaving your commissions or stealing your players. You can also share your negative experiences with them in forums like this one, so that other affiliates don't fall into the same traps that you did.
     
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    Biti

    Biti Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It's about trust. If shaving is done "well", there's no way to prove it. I also believe that shaving is widespread, which makes it a bit more difficult to compare.

    It helps to keep an eye on stats. I focus on conversion, player value, etc. If a brand underperforms, it might be shaving, but even not, then it's not worth pushing that brand more.

    Some brands don't convert, have a poor player value, but are around for years and will be around for years more. That simply doesn't rhyme.
     
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    Kadabra

    Kadabra Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I would say: forget about trust. There are cases that have a clear fraud smell to it - then of course walk away.

    In all the rest - you will never know and shouldn't bother yourself with that tooooo much. Just go with numbers. $/click. that's it.

    I have no idea who shaves me or who doesn't. But if i get $2 per visit in program A and paid on time and $1 per click in another - that's what matters. Maybe program B shaves. Maybe program A shaves but they are just better. Doesn't matter as you will (almost) never know.
     
    Thomas Andreas likes this.
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    AussieDave

    AussieDave 18 years & still going!

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    At then end of the day; as other members have stated, it's your gut feeling that something ain't Kosher, which, is what you need to gauge your evaluation on, of each program, you partner with.

    Even if you have factually (hard copy) proof that a program has shafted you, aside from taking legal action, there's sweet FA you can do. Many moons ago, I had a large whale at a program, I knew something wasn't right.

    The short story... my AM sent me the *xls file for that player. However, unbeknown to me (at the time), he'd left a couple of columns out. I was on personal speaking terms with the program/casino CFO (chief financial officer), so gave him a call. We both went over the file together, that's how I became savvy to the missing data columns. The CFO sent me the complete *.xls, and even he said there's money missing... Having had my accountant go over that file, and he confirmed approx US$80K was MIA.

    I had the proof I'd been shaved to tune of approx US$32K (on that one whale). How much more cash had been stolen from me, from other players, I had no idea. However, even with that proof, I still didn't get that stolen commission paid.

    Taking legal action would have cost far more than that $32K.

    Reiterating, if the program your working with, starts to raise red-flags about shaving, then you have two options. Either continue to work with them, or kick em to the curb. If your questioning their honesty/ethics, then it's not worth the worry and frustration; nothing is worth sleepless nights and the gut feeling your being played for a sucker!
     
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    danniee

    danniee Affiliate Program Representative

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    @AussieDave that's awful. I feel disgusted reading that.

    I just dropped a program after doing some research and finding out the AM had been involved in another program having shafted affiliates. I was sending them quite a lot of players each month and was making some money, but figured better to stop now rather than being shafted later on having wasted players and clicks on them.

    Since giving up on them, commission is at a standstill so either retention is shit or they're shafting me already.
     
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    awesamko

    awesamko Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I think affiliates can't do much when there is a feeling that an affiliate programme is not trustworthy. Simply change a casino that is promoted. There is really a lot of programs to choose from. I'm quitting immediately when I see that there is something wrong with the program.
     
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    Thomas Andreas

    Thomas Andreas Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Yes, AussieDave. that is F unbelievable. So they admit it. and then instead of paying up... crazy.
     
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    danniee

    danniee Affiliate Program Representative

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    I think our greatest advantage is the amount of programs to choose from. If I sense something is messed up I leave.
     
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    AussieDave

    AussieDave 18 years & still going!

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    Agreed... However I think OUR greatest asset above ALL else, is maintaining an active affiliate community where, the forum supports its members in stamping out crooked programs, and member support each other by flagging possible programs who are shaving and or operating in a less than ethical manner.

    Reiterating, we can't do much aside from kicking a program to the curb. But, even just doing that, means it sends a warning to others, as well as saving loss of potential income going forward.
     
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    Thomas Andreas

    Thomas Andreas Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Well put Dave!
     
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    eenzoo

    eenzoo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Simply said, if you promote mainstream. But tell me just 5 unattached live dealer casinos for us players ... :)
     
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    The Stone

    The Stone New Member

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    All business partnerships are about trust. I'll work with any affiliate manager as trust comes from nothing and has to be built. some of the guys I work with are rogued on here, but we all know in this industry you have to look out for no 1.
     
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    Frank

    Frank Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I always know when im being shaved.. can't prove it but stats don't lie.. i built my site to be able to add and remove casinos over thousands of pages in one click.. so anything fishy they get dropped and someone else goes up
     
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    eenzoo

    eenzoo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    That's the way to go! (y)
     
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    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate. Staff Member

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    I wish I was that clever... :(

    KK
     
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    NDG

    NDG Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    We've been automating things on our end as well. I remember the days when we had thousands of pages in HTML
    and we would have to spend a couple of days just to remove a rogue casino and replace it with a reputable one.
     
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    Donkey

    Donkey Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    easy:
    5Dimes, Betonline, Bovada, MyBookie, Slotocash
     
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    Kadabra

    Kadabra Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    not sure about 5dimes these days, but you also have Mainstreet brands and Superior with live dealer
     
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    eenzoo

    eenzoo Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    yes, I should have asked for 6. :) ofc you could add a couple of nj casinos right now, which running evolution gaming.
    but all the same (lame) ViG offers for the rest.
    this is not live dealer casino as it could look like and 5 or 6 or 7 operators gives you not really a choice in the end.
    I will ignore mainstreet, that looks all like made and stuck in 1998.
    btw the Sloto download (only) live dealers getting completely ignored by my traffic.

    Mybookie and Bovada are the only two players which u can count on in this niche and I can`t understand it. Huge deposits (and I mean huge) and best conversion I`ve ever seen. But 90% of the US offshore gambling world is proud of his boring 150+ RTG or Rival slots. Bravo.
     

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