Casino Bonuses - Don't Add Up

[Aussie-Dave]

Hi All,

Maybe I'm missing something and have done for years. However I've run this past an accountant friend and some other main stream business owners and all agree that if a casino bonus is not cashed out by a player, the bonus remains in the casino and should not be treated as a deduction.

EG -

Player A drops $100, receives a $100 bonus.

Player A loses and does not cash out.

However the bonus is treated as if Player A has cashed out.

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Example X - I lend $100 to a mate. The next week he returns the $100 to me.

Example Y - I lend another mate $100 but he never repays the $100 loan.

In example X I've neither lost my $100 nor gained $100.

In example Y I am $100 out of pocket.

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So unless I've totally got the things screwed up here, I'd appreciate someone explaining exactly how XYZ casino can give a bonus and even though the bonus is not paid out, can then deduct it from their loss/profit.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Vladi]

I agree Dave. You have to be very careful with some programs - RTG especially - who even have the cheek to deduct non-withdrawable bonuses from earnings.

Non-withdrawable or "play only" bonuses should never ever, under any circumstances, be counted against affiliate earnings. They should not even come into earnings calculations at all. Any program doing this is dishonest.

Cashable bonuses are more tricky but in my opinion the bonus should not be counted against revenue until such time that it is actually withdrawable, and treated as if the player won the money.

 

[KasinoKing]

So unless I've totally got the things screwed up here, I'd appreciate someone explaining exactly how XYZ casino can give a bonus and even though the bonus is not paid out, can then deduct it from their loss/profit.

You posted about this in the Brightshare thread yesterday, so I repeat:
I've never noticed that practice at any casinos I promote.
(Though I could have it totally screwed up! )

Please can you name some/all the casinos where you think this is happening so I can also investigate?

Thanks,
KK

 

[Vladi]

The default behaviour for any RTG casino that uses the standard RTG backend is to deduct free chips, bonuses and "manager credits" from earnings - even if they are not withdrawable. They then credit these back to you as the player loses them. But if the player does not zero out then you never recover the full amount of the bonus - even if the player leaves say $50 of non cashable bonus money in their account and does not come back to play again. The good programs occasionally clear out accounts like this for you. Many do not. Rogue programs use spurious "manager credits" to avoid paying commission. This can add up massively especially if you are sending large volumes of players who claim free chips.

eg. looking at our CWC account this is what I make of it:

commission is calculated as a percentage of net win.

net win = gross win - credits given
gross win = deposits lost + credits lost

i.e net win = deposits lost + credits lost - credits given (<< see how that works)

So the bonuses are being counted here, even though just about all their bonuses are not withdrawable. Not ideal but they assure me that they do zero out dormant accounts which only have credits in them for you from time to time. If that is not happening at your RTG program of choice then you are getting ripped off.

The other gotcha is win limits on free chips. Lets say you send a player who takes a $20 free chip with a maximum withdrawal limit of $100. They go and play and win $2000. In this system your net win takes a $2000 hit even though the most they can ever withdraw is $100. In the past the casinos had to manually adjust the balance when the player made a withdrawal and I am certain that many did not credit this back to your net win statistics. I think these days though the RTG system automatically reduces the balance when the player completes the wagering requirements. Again, if the casino does not do this then you could be getting ripped off.

Microgaming casinos - I believe they charge something for giving a bonus because Microgaming themselves charges the casino a fee. But you'd be better off asking a MGS casino rep for the full answer to that one.

If you'll allow me to derail for a sec ... another thing I find just as annoying is programs which deduct chargebacks from your earnings even though the net position on the player is zero. ie player deposits, loses, charges back, and then they deduct the deposit amount from your earnings. Fair enough if the player won then charged back but not if they lost and the net is zero less any chargeback fees. Brightshare have done that to us before.