Switching affiliates

nitro2

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From 2+2 Pokerforum:

"As a long term player at Full Tilt I was first attracted to FT from Stars because of Rack back, since signing with my affiliate I have generate based on current calculations over $1000 per month in revenue to the affiliates bottom line over a number of years and I am a low volume player, but I could only imagine the amount some of their high volume players earn them per month.

Since I signed up, the best my affiliate can offer is a little weekly free roll for $100 bucks for about 10-12 players. They have offered the occasional rake race and larger free roll but nothing consistent like some other sites which I discovered since signing. If I had known of these sites would I be where I am today of course not.

I have had no issues with this site and in fact have signed through them for others poker sites even knowing there are better deals as the reporting tool is easy to understand and everything is in one place.

However the one thing that annoys me is that I have signed a life time account with this affiliate, who does little to nothing to keep me as a customers because they don’t have to. I get some pretty reports and nice web site to view to see how much rake back I have earned.

If you aren’t happy with your current phone provider you can switch, if you find a better price for your utilities you can change.

Can I change my affiliate? This answer is no and my questions is why not?

If I can get a better deal playing poker at another site I can start playing there anytime I feel like, however if there is a new affiliate throwing in a monthly bonus for being with them why am I not able to change?

As a player, there should be a period of time let’s say 12 months or 2 years, where if I am not happy with my affiliate I can change to new affiliate for the same period of time. Imagine the increase support and offers players would be getting from affiliates. Remember I am the customer and if you want my business you need to earn it, not just once but for life.

As far as I am concerned I am the customer and you as affiliates should be doing everything you can to keep me as your customer. Once I sign you can pull away your bonuses, your free rolls, you races and there is nothing that I can do about it unless I change the poker site I play at and sign through another affiliate, who can do the same to me in the future.

What keeps me playing on Full Tilt is not the affiliate it’s Full Tilt, with their promotions and incentives. Full Tilt provides me the customer support when something goes wrong, provides me the software to play poker.

So imagine if Full Tilt allowed all players to switch affiliates much like phone carriers, oh happy days.

Without the players the poker sites and your affiliate income is $0.

Afiliates are not bound to only promote Full Tilt, if your not happy go and pump your promtions into UB or Absolute. At least you have a choice to chase the site that gives you the best deal. Do I as a player have the choice to move affilates after I sign?

Give the players the flexibility to choose our affiliates after we have signed with the poker sites and you may get their support. Give us the flexiblity to change just like you the affilates do promoting other sites.

I can’t see that happening so why should the players support you?"
 

nitro2

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How about giving the players the option to change their affiliate when they are not satisfied with their current one? This could be quite interesting - not just for poker...
 
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nitro2

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Here is the conclusion: If the player could switch their affiliate ANYTIME the focus of the affiliates would move from SEO to looking for ways how to make a player happy otherwise they wouldn't survive...

This would stop the SEO affiliates who are basically useless middleman and move the traffic & money to people who deliver some sort of value.
 
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Daera

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I could be wrong, but I think the programs want seo affiliates to move the traffic their way... and are just fine to handle the retention mostly themselves.

At least I think it's so with casinos. I'm not sure about poker.
 

dominique

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This is a rakeback issue, at a pokerroom that allows affiliates to interact and manage players. A dying breed.
 
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nitro2

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I could be wrong, but I think the programs want seo affiliates to move the traffic their way... and are just fine to handle the retention mostly themselves.

SEO affiliates are not creating any sort of value because they are just preying upon people who would "deliver" themselves anyway.

If the gambler could switch to an other affiliate at any time you would create a competition amongst the affiliates of a particular brand for the gamblers that have been already delivered and this could only be done by offering something of value for them thus heavily reducing the importance of SEO.

This way the affiliates wouldn't be just useless(in the bigger picture) and grossly overpaid middleman (as is the case for the vast majority of them now in the SEO driven revenue share model) but could help handle the retention.

You are right on this dominique that this could have an effect of an H-bomb for the aff community.
 
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Guard Dog

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There are several trains of thought on this. It doesn't mean that Nitro is right.. and it doesn't mean that the other argument is correct.

My take on it:

Affiliates are marketing partners, pure and simple. They are not given the resources to make decisions in regards to anything related to the properties they promote. The only slight variance we have is the ability to get bonuses that are exclusive to our sites.

Some affiliates DO take very good care of their customers. It is a difficult thing to do and requires time, effort, and a unique strategy which includes finding out WHO clicked through and signed up. That takes effort on the player's side as well as the affiliate's. Most players do not make that effort.

I have helped many players who signed up through me (and even plenty who did not) get bonus money, vip status, comps, and even get their withdrawal when things were taking too long.

Some affiliates can do this... some just cannot. It depends upon your business model. Neither is right or wrong, IMO.
 

Daera

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I'm not very familiar with the poker side of affiliate marketing, and never really understood how the whole rake-back thing worked. I guess it is much different then casino players.

On our forum, as well as other casino forums like The Streak, Gamtrak, etc., we do all run exclusive contests, tournaments, and bonuses to help keep things fun and keep our players playing. We also help if we can when our members have questions or problems they can't resolve themselves with the casinos we promote.

As a player, it would be nice to be able to detach yourself from an affiliate you don't want to be supporting for one reason or the other. But if that became common place for players to change what affiliate they were tagged under.... I'm sure there would be a lot of unhappy affiliates screaming about being cheated by the casino or poker room.

I don't really hang out in the poker affiliate circles. But many online casinos seem to always push for numbers. New players, more new players, and more new players.
 

sipka

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This whole thing looks cool in theory just the way it could be implemented in today's environment would suck.

The poker rakeback strategy as it is now a dead horse in my opinion, it shouldn't have happened on the affiliate side at the first place as you don't own your players but the programs do.

Secondly if we look at casino players, then I dare to say that 99% of affiliates don't even know the name of his/her players, only maybe if they operate a forum and they get feedback (but knowing the human nature, you will see more complaints than satisfactory comments - this is how we humans work) so managing people face to face is close to impossible.

Thirdly, unfortunately (or fortunately who knows) our industry works mostly on a quantity base: You can get unique offers from your program for your players if you deliver numbers. Considering that most of the affiliates are not a multi-billion dollar corporations with a lot of money to spend on mass quality traffic I can hardly see a new affiliate can bargain a deal where he can give their players unique bonuses, promos, etc let alone finance it himself. I agree that the entry barrier to this industry is very low, you don't really need a lot of money to start, but I also believe in the "the more affiliates are out there the more choices the players can have and the more viewpoints to see" attitude. If you put higher the entry requirements so only the ones can enter who have sponsors, investors, etc then I'm sure we will see a lot of biased reviews and sponsored blogs.

I don't say that the things are working great the way they are at the moment. Actually this is one of the best threads I have read for a long time, and it made my mind to think about things from a different angle. Good one nitro!
 

nitro2

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This whole thing looks cool in theory just the way it could be implemented in today's environment would suck.

The implementation is not that much of a problem but the game for the affiliates would change entirely then and for many of them this would kind of suck...

The poker rakeback strategy as it is now a dead horse in my opinion, it shouldn't have happened on the affiliate side at the first place as you don't own your players but the programs do.

It's not about poker rakeback but a new philosophy behind the aff community.

Secondly if we look at casino players, then I dare to say that 99% of affiliates don't even know the name of his/her players, only maybe if they operate a forum and they get feedback (but knowing the human nature, you will see more complaints than satisfactory comments - this is how we humans work) so managing people face to face is close to impossible.

You don't have to manage people face to face (although this could be a part of it too) but provide some sort of value for them.

Thirdly, unfortunately (or fortunately who knows) our industry works mostly on a quantity base: You can get unique offers from your program for your players if you deliver numbers.

If you tell the players during the registration process that they can "shop around" for affiliates if they have registered through one it wouldn't make any difference for a casino or whatever to pay the sum that has been agreed on to an other affiliate. The big difference under this model is that you have to make sure that the player will stay with you and this is only possible by providing some sort of value for them.

Considering that most of the affiliates are not a multi-billion dollar corporations with a lot of money to spend on mass quality traffic I can hardly see a new affiliate can bargain a deal where he can give their players unique bonuses, promos, etc let alone finance it himself.

If someone spends half a year working on a website that provides great poker strategy articles for example there is no need for SEO or any kind of bargains because people tend to value the stuff that is useful to them and start to move there (taking the deal from their previous affiliate with them and parasiting on the ones that do only SEO and nothing else which is intended).

I agree that the entry barrier to this industry is very low, you don't really need a lot of money to start, but I also believe in the "the more affiliates are out there the more choices the players can have and the more viewpoints to see" attitude.

What you will see then is:

I'm sure we will see a lot of biased reviews and sponsored blogs.

...because that suits affiliate's pockets best.

unless:

If you put higher the entry requirements so only the ones can enter who have sponsors, investors, etc...

...you go for a model so only the ones can survive that provide some sort of value for the player.

I don't say that the things are working great the way they are at the moment.

They suck completely to be honest.

Actually this is one of the best threads I have read for a long time, and it made my mind to think about things from a different angle. Good one nitro!

Let's hope that this will change...
 
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lots0

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nitro2 said:
If someone spends half a year working on a website that provides great poker strategy articles for example there is no need for SEO or any kind of bargains because people tend to value the stuff that is useful to them and start to move there (taking the deal from their previous affiliate with them and parasiting on the ones that do only SEO and nothing else which is intended).
Your obviously not a professional webmaster or affiliate.

you have some very quaint ideas. The fact is without knowing SEO, your good poker articles will never see any human eyeballs...ever.

There is a hell of a lot more to running a successful affiliate website than throwing up some articles and banners on some wordpress install and hoping for the best.

I always get a laugh when some non-webmaster, non-affiliate is so fast to tell professionals how to run there business.

Switching affiliates is just a silly idea, that would never in a million years work.

Personally, If your going to discuss silly ideas, I would rather talk about being able to drop players... those winners are a pain. I'd love to be able to drop them... But that is not how it works... now is it?
 

nitro2

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Your obviously not a professional webmaster or affiliate.

Take a look at the site design:

casinos/sportbooks:

3Dice.com - Radical 3D VR online casino. Free game or win real money playing poker blackjack slots roulette craps
BetMania – Online Sportsbook – Live Casino and Horse Betting

and even this one:

Online Slot Games | Online Slots | Free Online Slot Games | Slots Games

affiliate programs:

Affiliate Marketing Software | iGaming Affiliates | Income Access
Join The Internet's Leading Online Gaming Affiliate Program Today

and even this one:

AceRevenue.com - Best Affiliate Program, High up to 45% Revenue Share

now the affiliates:

SlotBeaters.com - Best online slots, hints & tips, guides, slot statistics, reel layouts - reelbands, slot percentages
The Pokerkeep - The Best in Online Poker
Online Casino and Gambling Guide
Bingo T's Bus Tours & Online Gaming - Home
World Casino Directory - Casino Guide and Gambling Forums

etc.

...but you obviously are ?? The first impression is already screwed up because of the ugly design of most affiliate websites...

you have some very quaint ideas. The fact is without knowing SEO, your good poker articles will never see any human eyeballs...ever.

You have some very quaint ideas too.

The forum on this site:

Beating Bonuses - Online Casino Bonuses and Casino Games

...is populated not because of the SEO but because of the content.

There is a hell of a lot more to running a successful affiliate website than throwing up some articles and banners on some wordpress install and hoping for the best.

Here are quotes from an interview with one of the so called "super affiliates":

"What advice would you give someone starting out in the business, especially when it comes to promoting one’s sites?

It’s all about SEO. Also, keep it simple. If you look at the top earning and top ranking Web sites, for the most part they are simple. There are exceptions like Casino City and PokerListings, but they have dedicated staffs."

"How do you find time to update all of your sites?

I will be honest. Most of my sites are small, and I keep them that way because it’s faster to get them up and running… and it takes a lot less time to update. I am not exactly great at offering a lot of unique and outstanding content. I also have hundreds of sites in other markets, such as finance and health. I would say that five pages per Web site is my average. I usually update all my sites in a certain market at the same time."

I always get a laugh when some non-webmaster, non-affiliate is so fast to tell professionals how to run there business.

I always get a laugh when the bunch of amateurs called affilates consider themselves "professionals".

Switching affiliates is just a silly idea, that would never in a million years work. Personally, If your going to discuss silly ideas, I would rather talk about being able to drop players... those winners are a pain. I'd love to be able to drop them... But that is not how it works... now is it?

What about droping the affiliate scheme altogether? This thread on 2+2 is quite interesting...It's really worth the read:

Petition to Stop FTP from cutting affiliates % - Internet Poker - Online Poker Forum
 
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Guard Dog

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Nitro - you are really starting to get on my nerves in this thread. You are in an affiliate forum. Home of affiliates. A place where affiliates try to do things better and improve the way we market and help Casinos gain customers.

Pardon my language... but if you are going to bash affiliates 'in their home', then you can get the hell off this forum and stay gone.

You have been given a second chance here because I like some of your ideas. I don't mind discussion here, but bashing affiliates shouldn't be part of the discussion.

As far as SEO... if you are any sort of webmaster at all you will quickly realize it is 100% necessary. As far as site design... I can guarantee you there are CRAPPY-Looking websites that do much better than professional looking sites. I can also guarantee that there are many 'professional looking' casinos that WE ALL KNOW we should stay away from.

Now - continue the discussion without bashing the folks here at AGD and without bashing affiliates, in general, and you can stay.

Thank you.

Andy
 

nitro2

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Nitro - you are really starting to get on my nerves in this thread. You are in an affiliate forum. Home of affiliates. A place where affiliates try to do things better and improve the way we market and help Casinos gain customers.

Pardon my language... but if you are going to bash affiliates 'in their home', then you can get the hell off this forum and stay gone.

Pardon guard dog but i am showing them the mirror and you call that bashing...

You have been given a second chance here because I like some of your ideas. I don't mind discussion here, but bashing affiliates shouldn't be part of the discussion.

You shouldn't dare to question the current affiliate model else...

As far as SEO... if you are any sort of webmaster at all you will quickly realize it is 100% necessary.

Agree on that what i am talking about is SEO fixation....

As far as site design... I can guarantee you there are CRAPPY-Looking websites that do much better than professional looking sites.

What i am interested about are the people that are scared off by these sites because there are more of them that you would imagine...

I can also guarantee that there are many 'professional looking' casinos that WE ALL KNOW we should stay away from.

WE ALL KNOW that the virtual group wouldn't survive without the help of the affiliates...

Now - continue the discussion without bashing the folks here at AGD and without bashing affiliates, in general, and you can stay.

If you consider all of the above as bashing then do me the favour and ban me...
 

lots0

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nitro2 said:
If you consider all of the above as bashing then do me the favour and ban me...
Do us all a favor.
Besides, after you bann him he will check your security against vpn and proxies for free when he tries to Break back in... :rolleyes:
 

nitro2

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Do us all a favor.

You talk about the people who are only capable of SEO and nothing else. You're right that this is the vast majority of affiliates.

Do you wanna know the truth ? If 90% or so of the affiliate websites disapperead from one day to another no one would miss anything...
 
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Guard Dog

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Pardon guard dog but i am showing them the mirror and you call that bashing...

I am not talking about this and you know it. I am talking about your attitude and the way you talk to people. I don't mind a discussion about it at all, to be honest. But you are purposefully antagonizing people here for now reason at all - except to purposefully agitate.

You shouldn't dare to question the current affiliate model else...

Again, not what I said.

What i am interested about are the people that are scared off by these sites because there are more of them that you would imagine...

I'm sure this does happen. But what typically happens is that the surfer finds a site they like and trust and use THAT site's information. So - they are only 'scared' enough to find a site that doesn't 'scare' them.


WE ALL KNOW that the virtual group wouldn't survive without the help of the affiliates...

Oh... I completely agree (although that was not my point). Affiliates that promote Virtual and similar ilk are doing the whole industry a disservice, IMO. The same with Grand Prive affiliates and plenty of others. We should all be careful of whom we do business.


If you consider all of the above as bashing then do me the favour and ban me...

You know what you are doing... just stop purposefully antagonizing folks here and I won't have to ban you. No more playing games here. This is a professional forum (as much as it can be) and I try not to have the same crap here as everywhere else. This forum is for the level-headed who can have discussions without resorting to name calling, 'flaming', antagonizing, and combative behavior.

You seem like a smart enough dude to understand this 8)
 
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