Rival ... Old Thread

[Ivebeenvegassed]

Dear Rival Rep.

"I have submitted all relevant info to Casinomeister for analysis. We will see what he has to say about it. There were 2 linked chargeback accounts (one as recent as July 31st), and one of which chargedback USD $10k. This large chargeback occurred in March and Bonne Chance even returned your remaining deposits. You were allowed to deposit because the chargebacks got posted on the account during the same time period you were depositing at This is Vegas."

During the 2 day period (prior to March 2010) over which I won the US80K+ there was one charge back that Sloto I had allegedly made. This was resolved between Sloto and myself, I'm sure Sloto made you aware of this and I have email proof of the resolution. As to any alleged chargeback in the amount of US10K in March I am unaware of this (are you saying I made a chargeback AND my deposits were returned to me ?? - this doesn't make sense).

As to a chargeback in July 31st 2010, I'm also unaware of this. My question to you though Rival Rep, is how is this relevant if any alleged chargeback happened after the fact ? i..e after I had won the US80K+....further if these chargebacks were made, why did you allow me to continue depositing at your casino's ? Is this a floating, fickle changing policy you have ? "allow people to deposit copious amounts of money, if they win more than they've deposited (and in my case a lot more that I deposited), then we'll make up/find any excuse not to pay". Is this correct ? have TIV and Rival invested so much in technology similar to what Tom Cruise had in the "Minority Report" that you can't afford to pay out big winners ?

Funnily enough, the only email I ever received from a Rival Casino (support at TIV) which was completely out of the blue, was after I lodged a PAB at CM earlier this month. It said "you are banned for life at all Rival casinos". Imagine my relief, and I can ask you this now Rival Rep - why wasn't I banned when this alleged US10k chargeback was made and then another chargeback on July 31st ?

 

[Rival Rep]

During the 2 day period (prior to March 2010) over which I won the US80K+ there was one charge back that Sloto I had allegedly made. This was resolved between Sloto and myself, I'm sure Sloto made you aware of this and I have email proof of the resolution. As to any alleged chargeback in the amount of US10K in March I am unaware of this (are you saying I made a chargeback AND my deposits were returned to me ?? - this doesn't make sense).[/]

I am referring to the $10k USD that was charged back at SlotoCash. The deposits refunded were deposits made at This Is Vegas.


As to a chargeback in July 31st 2010, I'm also unaware of this. My question to you though Rival Rep, is how is this relevant if any alleged chargeback happened after the fact ?

i..e after I had won the US80K+....further if these chargebacks were made, why did you allow me to continue depositing at your casino's ? Is this a floating, fickle changing policy you have ? "allow people to deposit copious amounts of money, if they win more than they've deposited (and in my case a lot more that I deposited), then we'll make up/find any excuse not to pay". Is this correct ? have TIV and Rival invested so much in technology similar to what Tom Cruise had in the "Minority Report" that you can't afford to pay out big winners ?


Our system did not catch this in time. All the personal information used on the new account was different and got through our internal checks as not a match for global banning. However on further review, we found an exact machine match between your account and this new account. We suspect that the same machine was formatted and used again. All legitimate players are paid, Rival and Bonne Chance have a strong reputation for that as all affiliates and players can attest to.


Funnily enough, the only email I ever received from a Rival Casino (support at TIV) which was completely out of the blue, was after I lodged a PAB at CM earlier this month. It said "you are banned for life at all Rival casinos". Imagine my relief, and I can ask you this now Rival Rep - why wasn't I banned when this alleged US10k chargeback was made and then another chargeback on July 31st ?

The chargeback did not post in time for TIV to have caught it. All these events happened in February and March including your large win.

The OP claims the following in his arguments with Casinomeister, This is Vegas and Bonne Chance:

1) Someone obtained a hacked card or stole your card (it is not clear which) and 2) somehow got access to your casino account login and password and deposited then 3) decided to chargeback and 4) the IP ranges used came from both AU and China but remained on the exact same 2 IP ranges. The signup IP was China and you used an affiliate located in China. The chargeback card was also from China.

Let's let Casino Meister sort this out.

Best regards,

Rival Rep

 

[Ivebeenvegassed]

Dear Rival Rep,

There NEVER was a US10K chargeback at Sloto Cash, I absolutely refute this and would be interested to see what evidence you come up with to prove otherwise. I'm emailing Dawn and Georgina to see exactly what this is about. As I said in my CM thread, yes there was a dispute around an alleged USD 750 chargeback (NOT US10K) made at Sloto Cash from a Chinese credit card in China. This was resolved between myself and Sloto with a three month hiatus to ensure that there was no possible fraudulent activity for the fear of someone hacking into my system and using my details. This was agreed to by myself and Sloto. They had the good sense to realize that me being an Australian citizen, with no work permit or government issued visa (I have an APEC card) could not possibly get my hands on a Chinese credit card. They obviously did not see me as a fraud or illegitimate player as they gladly re-opened my account with the same VIP member status. Please explain this Rival Rep.

I agree I was given the deposits back I made to TIV...but you know what, your system, support and management actually allowed me to re-deposit those "deposits given back to me" at TIV to play and "lose". Why was this allowed for a "fraudulent illegitimate player" ? Please answer this Rival Rep.

There are so many inconsistencies in your practices it's unbelievable. I'm so riled by the comments you have made and accusations of chargebacks that if you and TIV publicly acknowledge that you simply did not want to pay a legitimate winner.......i'll make no further comment on the matter and request CM to stop the PAB investigation.

 

[bonustreak]

This is getting interesting to say the least!

Operators have the ability to request a removal of any subset of games from the selection. This is a process and requires back and forth between Rival and the operator. It is impossible for Gold Rock to have logged the player off then removed the game. They do not have access to do this.

Are you calling my business partner a well known business women in this industry for many years(well before Rival decided to venture into online gaming) a liar? Hmm sorry to all the currant Rival operators that Streak Gaming does currently work with( I think there is a total of 4 now) but with this latest statement from the Rival Rep I am considering just taking all your casinos down, no one calls my business partner a lair! I know myself this happened, I know for a fact she went back in the casino and the slot was gone and I have emails that I will be digging up to show we had serious words with the casino management when this went down!

 

[Vladi]

Rival Rep why on earth, if you are in direct communication with the player, do you need Casinomeister to "sort it out"? Players go to CM if they are unable to contact someone within a casino to resolve their issue. But you're here having a back and forth with the player and trying to pass the buck onto someone else to do what exactly? Reinforce the decision you have clearly already made to not pay the winner?

If the player asks for evidence of allegations made against him, then give it to him. What harm can come of that? Why can you send such evidence to CM but not the player?

If CM comes back to you and says he thinks you should pay the player, then what? Are you going to publicly say it was all a big mistake and pay the guy? Or say that you still refuse to pay? You will look very foolish and/or a liar either way - so you have put yourself in an unnecessarily stupid situation.

Whether the player is a scammer or not, your handling of this issue is bizarre and not exactly confidence-inspiring.

 

[bb1webs]

I too have an inside friend who could probably answer Streak's questions but to be honest, I have to re-read that part so I understand enough to relay the question.

..........


What I wanted to say to the Rival Rep was to point out that under circumstances, I hope you appreciate that these are very civil approaches because they are for the most part, questions which have long been over-due in answer.

Also like to point out that if you guys had just made yourselves available from the get-go, you'd be the top software serving the states which is no small amount of money.


I too, was quick to jump on your wagon. I thought surely nobody could be as poor at constructing a network empire which was ripe for the taking, as was RTG, but Rival has actually reached a point they may not even find themselves in competition with RTG, because they won't be listed.

Its like a contest to see who can ruin relations with both players and affs the quickest.

.....


That said, I want to believe in Rival but I think its a mute point.

I fear players have lost faith. It may or may not be true that the payout % cannot be changed but I know for myself as a player ... these days I won't waste my money on a Rival casino. I know I won't have near the chance at winning as I would elsewhere.

Now maybe that's just my luck, i won't argue that, but when I look around, it is the same I am hearing from others too.


....

I'm tired. If you guys want to really turn it around, you better start making it feel like Christmas in Oct.

I know for a lot of these people, contacting all those big players you banned and getting them back would go a long ways towards putting you in a better light.

Not sure that'll help me, but it will most.

 

[KasinoKing]

"Sorry again there is thread after thread and proof of this happening on the slots and I even believe an ex rep of a casino posted at Casino Meister that yes operators can change the bet value on slots. I myself was called by Sam the owner or ex owner who knows who is was or is of Gold Rock way back about a year ago when my business partner was winning it up bit time on Scary Rich, she was booted went back in and the slot was GONE! I have many links to search out it seems so you can be shown why players are so unhappy with Rival Gaming."

There is no proof because it is impossible for an operator to change the RTP of slots. All of our operators (you can ask any of them) will confirm this is the case. I am sorry but you are misinformed about this.

Rival Rep

Your answer does not relate to the text you quoted above it!
The text is talking about changing BET LIMITS and REMOVING a GAME, your comment relates to changing the RTP - a totally different subject!

I know that the bet limit on slots CAN be changed DURING PLAY because it happened to me; I started playing Winter Wonders @ $18,75/spin but got booted from the game after a handful of spins. When I went back in my max bet was $7.50/spin.
Please can you explain exactly WHY Rival Gaming allow this to happen?

Thanks,
KK

 

[GamTrak]

There are so many inconsistencies in your practices it's unbelievable. I'm so riled by the comments you have made and accusations of chargebacks that if you and TIV publicly acknowledge that you simply did not want to pay a legitimate winner.......i'll make no further comment on the matter and request CM to stop the PAB investigation.

Are you saying that you are done with the process? I've been following the thread and since no one commented on the part I've highlighted I decided to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by 'stop the PAB investigation'. Thanks. BTW if anyone is expecting the casino to furnish 'evidence' then that won't and IMO should NOT happen.

Also thanks to the Rival Rep for making an appearance!

Edit: If CM is satisfied with it then the rest of us should be as well.

 

[tryme1]

What he's saying is that if Rival and TiV publically admits that they don't and won't play legitimate winners, then he'll call off the PAB. Clearly, this is more than a little unlikely to happen.

 

[Ivebeenvegassed]

What he's saying is that if Rival and TiV publically admits that they don't and won't play legitimate winners, then he'll call off the PAB. Clearly, this is more than a little unlikely to happen.

That's exactly what i'm saying.

 

[bb1webs]

I know that the bet limit on slots CAN be changed DURING PLAY because it happened to me

ABSOLUTELY!!!

If it was claimed this cannot be done it is an outright lie which was a pretty stupid thing to say considering that I'm almost positive that it can be searched in the threads at ... either cap or gpwa, where I was biching at John because I went to the trouble of writing all these reviews about their games which included (of course) the betting limits.

Only after doing all that work did I find out later that the powers that be ... took it upon themselves to change my limits because I had (in hindsight) foolishly used my own links to join and play the casinos ... so I could write my reviews.

It was a lot of work all to shit because I had made a point of writing what weird limits they had.

That's when John told me what had been done to me.

yet again, had Rival just made themselves available and communicated with me, I would have known to either adjust my reviews or what ended up happening was I had myself untagged.

Which BTW: I won over a grand with money John himself had given me to try the casinos and if you check those threads you will see where i never once asked for the money, and of course, was never offered to be paid it.


That's the kind of partner I am, and in return, I get treated as mentioned.

 

[bb1webs]

I should note to be fair, my limits were not changed DURING play.

sorry if that caused any hassle to anyone.

 

[Rival Rep]

Streak,

What I am saying is that what you say is impossible. 1) An operator cannot remove a game without Rival doing it for them through a process. 2) An operator cannot adjust the RTP of a slot machine. Both of which you suggested there is proof. I am 100% confident that no proof will be furnished because simply put it is impossible.

In conculsion, Gold rock could not have logged your friend out and then removed the game. The only explainable option is that your friend happened to be playing at the exact same time when Rival was instructed to remove the game from Gold Rock's offering. I still fail to see the reason for complaint.

On to game limits,

Game limits can in fact be changed at anytime by an operator. The changing of bet limits has no affect on RTP. It is the casino's right to change bet limits when they see fit. Rival has no right to enforce bet limit restrictions on its operators and as such it does not do so.

If you have a problem with bet limit changes then take it up with the individual casinos and not the software provider. We see no ethical issue with a casino enforcing its right to change bet limits and we will not be stepping in unless given a good reason.

Ivebeengassed,

You have $10k in chargebacks at Sloto, this is without a doubt true and the evidence has been provided to Meister. You even admitted to such and claimed it was a hacked card. Also, you have been machine linked (using the exact same machine) to a new player that also has chargebacks. The evidence is overwhelming.


Rival Rep why on earth, if you are in direct communication with the player, do you need Casinomeister to "sort it out"? Players go to CM if they are unable to contact someone within a casino to resolve their issue. But you're here having a back and forth with the player and trying to pass the buck onto someone else to do what exactly? Reinforce the decision you have clearly already made to not pay the winner?

Your last sentence is exactly right. We do not pay fraudulent chargeback players. We have resolved this issue in March, unfortunately, this player has submitted a PAB. What would you suggest? That we ignore it? We provided the information because we believe in our conclusion and we believe Casino Meister will as well.

Vladi, there is no other logical course of action for Bonne Chance on this particular sequence of events.

Best regards,

Rival Rep

 

[dominique]

What he's saying is that if Rival and TiV publically admits that they don't and won't play legitimate winners, then he'll call off the PAB. Clearly, this is more than a little unlikely to happen

Oh, thanks for clarifying that, I was confused.

I am sure Bryan and Rival will sort this out one way or another.

 

[Vladi]

Rival Rep, I think you misunderstood me. If you want to give CM the last word, then why engage in a public slanging match with the player? Better to just not engage in direct conversation with the player and leave it to the mediator because as I said, if CM doesn't agree with you, it will make you look exceedingly foolish.

If you have a problem with bet limit changes then take it up with the individual casinos and not the software provider. We see no ethical issue with a casino enforcing its right to change bet limits and we will not be stepping in unless given a good reason.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the casinos being able to change bet limits per se. It is the timing and the targeting of players, and I think you know that. If you see no ethical problem with booting high limit players in the middle of a play session and reducing their bet limits after they lose money, then I am shocked at your lack of ethics.

 

[bonustreak]

What I am saying is that what you say is impossible. 1) An operator cannot remove a game without Rival doing it for them through a process.

LOL really? We ALL know that I was referring to Rival removing the games on the request of the casino, don't be silly we all know it has to work this way since Rival is the software provider...

I don't like your attitude much at all it is a FACT that the games were removed I have the emails from Stephen from casino support at the time where he admits this game WAS REMOVED and it did happen while she was playing! My partner took time out today to dig all the mails out and we forwarded them to Andrew here at AGD so you do not think we are picking on your or fabricating stories. I will post them public if you like all you have to do is say the word in the mean time I am so very happy to forward them to anyone that would like to see this

 

[Ivebeenvegassed]

You have $10k in chargebacks at Sloto, this is without a doubt true and the evidence has been provided to Meister. You even admitted to such and claimed it was a hacked card. Also, you have been machine linked (using the exact same machine) to a new player that also has chargebacks. The evidence is overwhelming.

You have to be kidding me right ? US10K in chargebacks from a China credit card ??? Get a Sloto Rep here now and we can resolve this asap. Rival Rep do you know what I gave up for those alleged chargebacks for something that I didn't do ? And do you realize that it was resolved between myself and Sloto ?? Do you not understand this ?? Why would Sloto re-instate me as a VIP member and then allow me to make subsequent large deposits (after the fact) ? Please explain Rival Rep

You also failed to answer my question as to why did TIV and yourselves allowed me to "redeposit" those returned deposits to me after discovering in your words that I was a "fraudulent" player ? perhaps its that YOU do allow "illegitimate" players to deposit heavily at your casinos BUT if they win....well that's a whole different story !!! Explain the unexplainable please. (and don't give the excuse that the alleged "fraud" was being investigated so we had to take on any deposits that we re-deposited back to you - HA). Rival Rep please explain..

 

[bonustreak]

If you see no ethical problem with booting high limit players in the middle of a play session and reducing their bet limits after they lose money, then I am shocked at your lack of ethics.

BAM! There you go that is what we are ALL talking about here the way these operators are monitoring high rollers and booting them from casinos only to let them back in with lower betting standards or the high variance slot just disappearing from the casino. This is a proven fact Rival Rep, this does happen so why would affiliates send you any players? Why would we send you our high rollers to abuse?

YOU do allow "illegitimate" players to deposit heavily at your casinos BUT if they win....well that's a whole different story !!!

Case and case again shows this is exactly what is happen with all your licensed brands. You do not like winners period and you will find and allow your operators to find anyway possible to not pay winners.

Don't get me started on the ridiculous amounts allowed for players to cashout each week. Again you let the operators determine this fact as well.

Point and fact is your attitude makes affiliates think you really don't give a rats behind what these operators are doing as long as you are paid your monthly fees.

I don't care I will speak my mind and do this battle with you, it is long over do and as far as me being worried about my future earnings taking a nose dive there is no worry there...lol I was on the floor in Vegas of 06 and jumped right on promoting one of your operators, I have sent them SO many players over the years and I am lucky to make 100 bucks a month. So I think I can live without that money and know in the end I saved an innocent gambler from wasting their money in a casino software that is not trustworthy.

 

[Guard Dog]

I think Rival Rep is doing a good job answering questions and the continual questions we are giving. Thanks for that!

Rival Software, IMO, is a credible brand. I think they have a lot of growing and issues to fix - but can be one of the 'big guys' if they start understanding this. Your marketing partners know that the software essentially 'runs off' high rollers. If this is not the case, then high rollers are being stolen from us.

Both scenarios are obviously very bad. I'll assume that Rival just doesn't know how to keep high rollers happy. I don't *want* to assume the players are stolen from me. I will say that with the amount of players I have given to Rival, I should be making a LOT more and there should be plenty of high rollers in the mix - but I am not making a LOT (decent, but not a lot) and I have no high rollers.

This is how most of your partners (if not all) feel. It needs to be rectified.

 

[Ivebeenvegassed]

You have $10k in chargebacks at Sloto, this is without a doubt true and the evidence has been provided to Meister. You even admitted to such and claimed it was a hacked card. Also, you have been machine linked (using the exact same machine) to a new player that also has chargebacks. The evidence is overwhelming.

Rival Rep, i never admitted to anything of the sort. What are you talking about ? What I have admitted to is that the credit card from which those alleged chargebacks were made was not mine. I do not know where the card came from, who owned it or how it got into Sloto's systems (why can't you check the verification ?). Sloto understood this, why can't Rival ? Case in point, Sloto continued to take deposits from me well after TIV refused my winnings (and I'm talking 3 months after). I deposited and lost well over US5K with Sloto subsequently. If i charged back US10K at Sloto previously, why wouldn't I charge back these deposits ? Sloto were the ones that informed me that they are NOT affiliated in anyway with TIV and that I should take my claim to Rival.

Essentially, this is what it comes down to. I had an issue with Sloto, not TIV and the issue was resolved with Sloto. I made a large deposit with TIV (ID verification and all), no issue "take my money please". I win big at TIV....oh...we have issues.

What I, and others have realized is "overwhelmingly" obvious, is that Rival and TIV are operations that are not trustworthy. If there aren't any rules for the owners, how and why would you expect the players to play ?