High Roller Policies Good For Casinos Bad For Affiliates

[AussieDave]

For a moment, lets disregard all players except high rollers (whales). To provide an example, you have a whale who's been a regular depositor for 2 years.

• Over this period $200,000 has been deposited.
• $75,000 has been won/withdrawn.
• Player is $-120,000 in the hole.

This player has a good run 1 month and wins $70,000.

Yet because this player exceeded the $10,000 HR policy, your whale is now fenced.

What should happen, what is fair to both casino and affiliates, This player's HR win should be deducted from the total losses for this player. In this case, subtracting this win from total losses. The player is still $-55,000.

If a players total losses at a casino, is greater than the win which triggered the HR policy, then it is voided. This rule should be mandate for ALL players.

How can a casino ethically claim a loss, when the casino is still +$55,000 in profit from this player - even with the $70,000 won (which activated the HR policy).

I'm sick of being scammed by casinos who quarantine players, based on the above criteria. These casinos want their bread buttered on both sides

 

[justred]

NEO - Welcome to the real world. We are here to be scammed.

 

[frankcolt]

Let me guess - FA - you'll never see the player again - same thing happened to me - player lost a lot ( I MEAN A LOT) over 3 or 4 years - then won one month, they brought in the high roller clause - never saw the player again

 

[KasinoKing]

I don't enjoy getting "screwed over" any more than the next person, but be fair guys - the casinos exist to make themselves money - not to let affiliates get rich with absolutely no risk of losing out due to big winners.

Being an affiliate is absolutely the best job in the world.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen (i.e. Don't work with programs whose T&Cs you don't like).

KK

 

[Perc]

How can a casino ethically claim a loss, when the casino is still +$55,000 in profit from this player - even with the $70,000 won (which activated the HR policy).

Well I'll post the same thing I did last time you posted about how you think high roller policies should work.

After 2 years this player was in the hole $120k, that money is gone! You got paid your cut, software/licenses got paid their cut, employees got paid their cut, etc.

It's a casino, not a bank. The player losses don't just get pooled for years and years, people get paid with that money, and I'm sure the owner(s) probably live well off the income.

Let's simplify things and pretend that player is the only player at the casino. That $120k paid for fees and all that for the last two years and there's nothing left. The player wins $70k, that's now coming out of the casino owners pocket. Then their Bet4You HR policy uses lifetime revenue to determine HR status, and they don't carry the negative to the next month where that player loses $30k. The casino then has to pay you a further ~$10k out of their own pocket.

That player would have to lose almost $100k (assuming you're at around 35%) just so the casino could break even while paying you over the x-amount of months since the $70k win, and that's not even considering the license fees, employee salaries, etc.

Even if you put $5k a month into a bank for two years, via a few wire transfers each month, you wouldn't have $120k in your account due to fees.

Just trying to emphasize the fact that money gets spent over time. Your High Roller policy is not sustainable looking at it from a business perspective. I mean sure it would be nice for you, you don't have to pay the winners - you don't have that risk factor as an affiliate.

I'm sick of being scammed by casinos who quarantine players, based on the above criteria. These casinos want their bread buttered on both sides

Honestly, it looks like you're the one that wants his bread buttered on both sides. You want to make money when the casino is making money, AND when the casino is losing money.


Confucius say - "Bankrupt casino pays no one."

 

[AussieDave]

Honestly, it looks like you're the one that wants his bread buttered on both sides. You want to make money when the casino is making money, AND when the casino is losing money.

Mate you've misunderstood my post, again. You then follow that up, with taking me out of context, please don't do that!

FYI I don't want payment on a winning player. That's insane!

However on the same token, if a player has produced a (life time) profit for the casino, why should the affiliate's player be fenced for winning.
Seems your argument against me, would be better served, against the casino's with HR policies.

 

[AussieDave]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen (i.e. Don't work with programs whose T&Cs you don't like).

You know as well I do, that's BS.
If a program reneges on a bespoke deal (for example), your then stuck with T&C's you never agreed to (or never would), in the 1'st place.

 

[KasinoKing]

If a program reneges on a bespoke deal (for example), your then stuck with T&C's you never agreed to (or never would), in the 1'st place.

That's exactly my point. Affiliates have ZERO power to make programs "do the right thing" (despite the efforts of affiliate portals like here, CAP and GPWA); we have take what we're given - or get out.

For example, I have promoted Betway and Ladbrokes for 7 years with no NCO, then suddenly this year they both started imposing it without even the courtesy of mentioning it to me. There is nothing I can do to change that, so I have to decide if I want to carry on working with them. Yes it's Hobson's choice, so all I can do is lower their profile or dump them and fill the gaps with programs I hope wont go down the same road.
Many affy programs will rip you off and you'll NEVER know - at least with these guys they are honest enough to admit it!

With a rough count I reckon I have dumped about 40 programs since I started and had about another 80 close down - half of which went while still owing me commission.
But the good news is, there's plenty of new ones coming along all the time.
My glass is half full!

KK

 

[CasinoKev]

Holy moly KK, you've been through literally 100s of programs?

You view plenty of new sites popping up as a good thing? Why can't we just have a few old reliable sites that do business right?

 

[KasinoKing]

Holy moly KK, you've been through literally 100s of programs?

You view plenty of new sites popping up as a good thing? Why can't we just have a few old reliable sites that do business right?

Just did a quick count up - looks like I've signed up to about 244 programs in the last 8 years.

If I could just promote half a dozen casinos, make good money and have none of them ever close down or screw me over - I would of course!
But life ain't like that, so yes, it is a good thing that when some programs turn bad, there are plenty of other new potentially good ones to fill the holes.
Sure it's a pain in the ass and a lot of work to keep changing stuff - but at the end of the day, I do get paid for it.

KK

 

[AussieDave]

it is a good thing that when some programs turn bad, there are plenty of other new potentially good ones to fill the holes.

You and I do things differently (and that's cool)...

I've never added casino's or signed up with "new" programs, without first watching them from the sides lines for a while. I don't do it, not because removing casino's is a PITA, I do it because I don't like seeing players or for that matter myself being shafted. Albeit good programs turn bad, can't help that. Though, I take calculated risks, which after 14 years as a casino affiliate, has worked well for me.

 

[LandofOz]

There may be plenty of other new and potentially good programs to fill the holes, that is true, but it takes a lot of time to build a good player base that generates a decent income when working with a new program.

 

[DaftDog]

Yeah, signing up with any new program that comes along is not a cool thing to do. Most of my best performing programs have negative carry over which results in a mutually conducive business plan for both casino and affiliate. Sure some months I'm in the hole, but over time my player base is getting larger and larger, which means I will be earning more and more from that program each year.

A business that only plans from month to month and not the long term will not be as profitable as they could be.