Why do some affiliate programs?

[Rhondagrace]

Hi Everyone, heres my bitch of the month! ;D

Why do some affiliate programs deduct bonuses from no depositing players and take it from your depositing players?? unless they cash out I don't see any reason for doing this, and I think it's basically stealing from me.

it's not fair and I haven't come across other affiliates complaining about it, is it just me.... I know your going to say to me "then just don't advertise the no deposit bonuses". but with being such a small affiliate I can't see doing that. another peeve of mine is what about players that are under your tag when casinos run free ipad giveaways and laptops, ect. do they take the cost or percentage of the prizes out of your commission? :emoticon-0112-wonde

 

[KasinoKing]

Why do some affiliate programs deduct bonuses from no depositing players and take it from your depositing players?? unless they cash out I don't see any reason for doing this, and I think it's basically stealing from me.

Never come across that before - which program(s) do that?

If you don't want to name them, at least can you give me the casino's software type as a clue?

KK

 

[gamerbud]

woah! glad haven't experienced similar to that problem.
There might be an error on their system or something.

 

[warrichpk]

can you please tell us some of those casino affiliate programs. i would like to stay away from them.

 

[Vladi]

Just about every RTG program that uses the standard RTG reports does it.

Here's another pet peeve of mine: non-cashable bonuses that count in stats. eg A player deposits $100 and is given lets say a $50 bonus. $50 is subtracted from your net income until the player loses it, even though they can never cash it out in the first place.

In both cases (no-deposit and non-cashable) if the player stops playing without zeroing out, your commission suffers permanently unless the casino goes through and cleans up the outstanding bonuses on dormant accounts.

 

[baldidiot]

I suspect that this happens at a couple of places - in fact at one bingo site the NDB's wipe out the deposits almost completely. This site requires the players to make a deposit to withdraw, so I know the money is still sitting in the accounts.

Does anyone know if this kind of funds expire? (winnings from NDB's that are not withdrawn). And if so are they credited back to the aff account?

 

[AE-Martyn]

Here is the deal.

Fact 1. The bonuses are not deducted from your depositing players.
Fact 2. It's not stealing from you.
Fact 3. We deduct non cash bonuses from the Gross Win.

Here is why, every player has two balances, a real money balance and a non-cash balance. Both balances (shown as a single balance) affects the overall GROSS WIN. Before we pay commissions, bonus amounts are deducted from the GROSS WIN to get the NET WIN. The net win is the figure used to calculate commissions.

If we did not remove the bonuses from the Gross win, we would be paying commissions to you on both cash deposits and bonus amount that we give the players. From a business point of view, this does not make sense.

At the end of the day it all evens out. If you had a zero balance then a $60 free chip is cashed, you account would show -$18 on 30% revenue share. As the player plays the chip back, the balance gets closer to zero and the negative reduces on your account. Lets say the player loses it all in one go, you balanace will show $0.

Net Gaming = Gross Win
Net Revenue = Net Win

All non-cash balances are 'flushed' every 180 days. These balances if left unattended also screw up our figures!

It is a weird one to explain but it does make sense if you think about it logically and not think about it as stealing. If you get in that mindset you'll find it hard to understand the reasons above.

I hope this helps?

Cheers,

Martyn

Hi Everyone, heres my bitch of the month! ;D

Why do some affiliate programs deduct bonuses from no depositing players and take it from your depositing players?? unless they cash out I don't see any reason for doing this, and I think it's basically stealing from me.

it's not fair and I haven't come across other affiliates complaining about it, is it just me.... I know your going to say to me "then just don't advertise the no deposit bonuses". but with being such a small affiliate I can't see doing that. another peeve of mine is what about players that are under your tag when casinos run free ipad giveaways and laptops, ect. do they take the cost or percentage of the prizes out of your commission? :emoticon-0112-wonde

 

[Daera]

Thanks for posting that Martyn. I can never remember off hand what the formula is, so i'm glad you posted. I agree, that the bonuses aren't really deducted from our earnings. As long as the bonus is played and lost, it all evens out. It's not unfair at all.

I'm not sure what formula every other program uses to calculate our earnings. But the programs we promote work just like Affiliate Edge.

 

[baldidiot]

All non-cash balances are 'flushed' every 180 days. These balances if left unattended also screw up our figures!

Could you help clarify something (I have something similar going on at another program and I'm hoping it will translate).

So lets say in january you had a player who all took a bonus worth $100, and a player who lost $100, making your balance $0

Eg: $100 - $100 = $0, commission = 0

If the bonus player never played and the bonus expired, what happens to the stats? Would there be a +$100 adjustment on the gross revenue in July (ie: 180 days after the bonus was issued)?

Does that make sense?

 

[AE-Martyn]

So lets say in january you had a player who all took a bonus worth $100, and a player who lost $100, making your balance $0

Eg: $100 - $100 = $0, commission = 0

If the bonus player never played and the bonus expired, what happens to the stats? Would there be a +$100 adjustment on the gross revenue in July (ie: 180 days after the bonus was issued)?

Does that make sense?

It does make sense but for this example the commissions would still be zero as each month is tidied up on month end. Negative and Positive balances are carried over but in this example the $30 from "January" would not show in 180 days time.

However, this is a loaded question. If a player claims a free chip, they usually play it straight away and if they dont, it will be spread over a few days. So the example given isnt really one that would reflect in reality.

 

[tryme1]

Hi Martyn,

Don't you get bored of keep answering this question or do you have a copy and paste post you use each time?

While I think most people accept that AE do the right thing, the critical part is this:

All non-cash balances are 'flushed' every 180 days. These balances if left unattended also screw up our figures!

I know you guys do it. But the more general question (not aimed at AE) is: are there RTG or any other programs that don't flush these balances. If there are, affiliates are getting ripped off.

 

[baldidiot]

However, this is a loaded question. If a player claims a free chip, they usually play it straight away and if they dont, it will be spread over a few days. So the example given isnt really one that would reflect in reality.

That depends - if a chip take a while to get credited the player may lose interest and it would just sit there.

Alternatively (I suspect) that in my case the players are joining and playing without realizing that they have to deposit to withdraw. They don't deposit so the funds sit there in the account. Or that's what it looks like in the stats, anyway.

 

[Rhondagrace]

Hi Martyn,

Don't you get bored of keep answering this question or do you have a copy and paste post you use each time?

Hi Tryme, my post was not about Affiliate Edge in particular. I was talking about Some programs. ???

 

[tryme1]

Yeah, I know. And I think you've brought an important issue to the table. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

So, let me stop derailing the thread and get back to the original issue: affiliate programs need to step up to the plate here and answer the lovely Rhonda's original question.

 

[Vladi]

Sorry Martyn I was almost going to post in my original one that CWC (Affiliate Edge) cleans house every month or so. I know you do the right thing! But there are other RTGs that do not.

And as you can see from Martyn's formula, everything does not square up until the player zeroes out, because a non-cashable or no deposit bonus given to one player immediately subtracts from the net win of all the others. I understand why they do it, as it makes it easier to calculate because they can't give you commission on $500 of losses when $250 was bonus money.

Its a quirk of the system, I don't believe its an attempt to steal anything, and RTGs are not the only ones who have the same problem! (Arse well and truly covered). But it can and does affect an affiliate's cashflow, because you have to wait a month or two for things to even out.

But there are programs (Gambling Wages is one example) who take advantage of it, and who used to go so far as to use the RTG "Credits" or "Manager's Credits" to reduce your earnings deliberately by issuing phantom bonuses that are never zeroed out (don't know if they still do this as I ditched them years ago after wising up to how they treat players).

The other one that used to get you was a player is given a $30 free chip with say a $100 maximum withdrawal cap. The player wins $2000 and your commission is hit by the $2000 win even though they can't withdraw most of it. I believe its no longer a problem any more as the RTG software automatically reduces player balances in this situation when they meet the wagering requirements. But it is one to look out for on other softwares that do not automatically clean this stuff up.

 

[AE-Martyn]

Don't you get bored of keep answering this question or do you have a copy and paste post you use each time?

Yes

That depends - if a chip take a while to get credited the player may lose interest and it would just sit there.

Free chips are claimed by the player in the majority of cases. They login, head to the cashier and pop in the coupon code and it credits in an instant (with us anyways). So they can go play.


Vladi, thanks for your post and glad it makes sense. I just want to clear up a couple of things...

And as you can see from Martyn's formula, everything does not square up until the player zeroes out, because a non-cashable or no deposit bonus given to one player immediately subtracts from the net win of all the others.

Not totally correct, the account will progressively square up as the player plays. So $100 claimed > -$30 commission. $50 played (lost) > -$15 commission etc. So what i am saying is that you dont stay in a negative until the free chip has been played out.

Also the amount subtracts from the Gross Win to give you the Net Win.

The other one that used to get you was a player is given a $30 free chip with say a $100 maximum withdrawal cap. The player wins $2000 and your commission is hit by the $2000 win even though they can't withdraw most of it. I believe its no longer a problem any more as the RTG software automatically reduces player balances in this situation when they meet the wagering requirements. But it is one to look out for on other softwares that do not automatically clean this stuff up.

Correct, with us anyways. When a player wins on a free chip and a max cashout is in place, the player can withdraw the max and have the remainder amount wiped or they can chose not to cashout and continue to play with it and see where they get. However the max cashout rule will still apply.