Thoughts on Uffiliates (888), iAffiliates (Mansion)? And the "Make Money" angle?

[tweb]

Hi,

I've been an affiliate for 5 years running non-gambling stuff, looking to get into this, hopefully it works out and I'll be around a lot!

I've been speaking to William Hill, Ufilliates (888.com), and iAffiliates (Mansion). I'm wondering what your thoughts on these companies are?

I will be running in the UK only, European Roulette.

I will also be running on a CPA model as opposed to revshare. This is because I promote via PPC and the people I'm targeting aren't necessarily interested in Roulette so I don't think they will spend too much. Also I am useless at SEO! I am being offered 50% share at 888, and $150-$180 CPA at iAffiliates and WillHill.

Also, although I'm not going to be using this angle when driving users to the Casino, what are your thoughts on the "make money with roulette" sites being advertised? People promoting the Martingale method then sending users to the Casino saying they can win x a month with Roulette.

Thanks, and I appreciate any comments!

 

[TheGooner]

I will also be running on a CPA model as opposed to revshare. This is because I promote via PPC and the people I'm targeting aren't necessarily interested in Roulette so I don't think they will spend too much. Also I am useless at SEO! I am being offered 50% share at 888, and $150-$180 CPA at iAffiliates and WillHill.

I think that if you are correct and the players are not interested in roulette and do not spend much ... then you will find that you don't get the CPA payment level that you are expecting at end of month. William Hill, 888.con and Mansion are not slow in declaring affiliates unprofitable and/or fraudulent ... and retrospectively applying a rev-share basis or closing the account completely.

Also, although I'm not going to be using this angle when driving users to the Casino, what are your thoughts on the "make money with roulette" sites being advertised? People promoting the Martingale method then sending users to the Casino saying they can win x a month with Roulette.

It's blatant lying in an attempt to fool people into parting with their money knowing that they will lose. It's short term hard sell bullshit. This stuff gives the industry a bad name.

 

[tweb]

I think that if you are correct and the players are not interested in roulette and do not spend much ... then you will find that you don't get the CPA payment level that you are expecting at end of month. William Hill, 888.con and Mansion are not slow in declaring affiliates unprofitable and/or fraudulent ... and retrospectively applying a rev-share basis or closing the account completely.

Ah, they can do this? Retroactively reduce payments? I thought if after a week of running they see they aren't seeing a healthy ROI on their CPA payout they will lower payout. That sucks. I will ask them, see what they say.

It's blatant lying in an attempt to fool people into parting with their money knowing that they will lose. It's short term hard sell bullshit. This stuff gives the industry a bad name.

Yeah agreed. So how would you say people normally promote roulette? What angle seems to be most popular? Or is it mainly poker people running SEO because I can see how that would be beneficial as there is skill to poker versus roulette which is pure luck.

 

[tweb]

I think that if you are correct and the players are not interested in roulette and do not spend much ... then you will find that you don't get the CPA payment level that you are expecting at end of month. William Hill, 888.con and Mansion are not slow in declaring affiliates unprofitable and/or fraudulent ... and retrospectively applying a rev-share basis or closing the account completely.

Ah, they can do this? Retroactively reduce payments? I thought if after a week of running they see they aren't seeing a healthy ROI on their CPA payout they will lower payout. That sucks. I will ask them, see what they say.

It's blatant lying in an attempt to fool people into parting with their money knowing that they will lose. It's short term hard sell bullshit. This stuff gives the industry a bad name.

Yeah agreed. So how would you say people normally promote roulette? What angle seems to be most popular? Or is it mainly poker people running SEO because I can see how that would be beneficial as there is skill to poker versus roulette which is pure luck.

 

[AussieDave]

So how would you say people normally promote roulette?

A bizarre concept for most casinos and some affiliates in this industry but I find good, old fashioned honesty is the best policy. Not all players are blinded sheep and while these sites BS may sucker players, I'm sure these players wont be back to these sites. Hence there is your lead *wink*.

 

[tweb]

A bizarre concept for most casinos and some affiliates in this industry but I find good, old fashioned honesty is the best policy. Not all players are blinded sheep and while these sites BS may sucker players, I'm sure these players wont be back to these sites. Hence there is your lead *wink*.

I'm new to gambling so I was wondering how people are generating leads. Poker I understand, and my angle on Roulette is targeted towards people who haven't really gambled and like TheGooner said these casinos can retroactively reduce your commission so I'm not sure if my method of promotion will work.

 

[AussieDave]

I'm new to gambling so I was wondering how people are generating leads.

PPC can be very expensive depending on the keywords. You'll find most affiliates obtain their traffic from organic terms. You didn't say what affiliate vertical you were previously in BUT what works for main stream sites, doesn't always work here. Hence to stand a chance, you really do need some basic seo know-how under your belt. Albeit you could hire a seo company, though again, not too many have gambling experience and those that do, will charge you an arm and leg and probably wont give you any guarantees. Don't mean to sound deflating, though better to give the the facts than sugar coating it.

There are other ways to get traffic but I don't think too many affiliates are going to give their secrets to traffic away.

As far as commission/CPA, I'd personally advise going for rev-share every time

 

[tweb]

PPC can be very expensive depending on the keywords. You'll find most affiliates obtain their traffic from organic terms. You didn't say what affiliate vertical you were previously in BUT what works for main stream sites, doesn't always work here. Hence to stand a chance, you really do need some basic seo know-how under your belt. Albeit you could hire a seo company, though again, not too many have gambling experience and those that do, will charge you an arm and leg and probably wont give you any guarantees. Don't mean to sound deflating, though better to give the the facts than sugar coating it.

There are other ways to get traffic but I don't think too many affiliates are going to give their secrets to traffic away.

As far as commission/CPA, I'd personally advise going for rev-share every time

OK great, thanks for the response! Rev-share it is.

What are your thoughts on those sites I mentioned, especially Ufilliates and iAffiliates? I have heard bad things about both, but that was early last year. Not too sure.

 

[TheGooner]

Hey Tweb good follow up questions ... I'll try and answer them

Ah, they can do this? Retroactively reduce payments?

The T&Cs in most agreements mean that programs can do almost anything. Where it's really legal or not is questionable - but you are not going to sue them in court (no affiliate is going to bother with high law costs for small amounts) so these programs CAN and DO make modifications when the profit numbers are low from an affiliate.

Yeah agreed. So how would you say people normally promote roulette? What angle seems to be most popular? Or is it mainly poker people running SEO because I can see how that would be beneficial as there is skill to poker versus roulette which is pure luck.

Yes - coming from a sports betting background - where odds are everything - it can be difficult to sell a positive angle on casino game odds -after all the odds are in favour of the HOUSE on every game.

Basically, if you are in the affiliate game for anything other than the very short term scam then it's best to present the facts, and have truthful opinions that will help players to choose the "best" place to play. So that gives you plenty of scope to talk about deposits / screen layouts and ease of play etc.

Personally, we promote casinos by talking about reliability, bonus offers, bet limits and screen experience, as well as listing all the different versions of blackjack or roulette that can be played. So if a casino has roulette with 0 and 00, or perhaps a table without zeros at all then that's interesting too.

 

[AussieDave]

What are your thoughts on those sites I mentioned, especially Ufilliates and iAffiliates?

I don't promote to UK players so I don't work with these programs. Personally though, if I did, I doubt I'd work with them.

Thing is though and as an example. Bob is an affiliate and his site might do really well with ABC casino. His buddy Jack has a site too. While both these sites attract similar players and target the same niche, Jack can't covert to save himself with ABC casino. But XYZ casino does exceptionally well for him. But his mate Bob thinks XYZ casino is crap cause he can't make anything with them.

The point I'm making, you can ask what are the best places to promote but it's best to trial and error. First point of call would be try the Certified AGD casinos.

 

[tweb]

Hey Tweb good follow up questions ... I'll try and answer them


The T&Cs in most agreements mean that programs can do almost anything. Where it's really legal or not is questionable - but you are not going to sue them in court (no affiliate is going to bother with high law costs for small amounts) so these programs CAN and DO make modifications when the profit numbers are low from an affiliate.


Yes - coming from a sports betting background - where odds are everything - it can be difficult to sell a positive angle on casino game odds -after all the odds are in favour of the HOUSE on every game.

Basically, if you are in the affiliate game for anything other than the very short term scam then it's best to present the facts, and have truthful opinions that will help players to choose the "best" place to play. So that gives you plenty of scope to talk about deposits / screen layouts and ease of play etc.

Personally, we promote casinos by talking about reliability, bonus offers, bet limits and screen experience, as well as listing all the different versions of blackjack or roulette that can be played. So if a casino has roulette with 0 and 00, or perhaps a table without zeros at all then that's interesting too.

Alright, great, thanks! I see what you mean and will take that on board.

I'll be honest, I'm looking to send more traffic that the average casino affiliate. I am not bragging, I am going off what my account manager told me. He said I should aim for 5-10 paying users a month, when I was looking at that per day. The difference is though, my traffic will be paid and it will be very little profit, most likely a loss for the first month at least. Now if these casinos halve my commission retroactively, I'm looking at a hefty $xx,xxx loss. So I will probably have to talk to them about contracts before I send traffic, that is if they will entertain that move.

I don't promote to UK players so I don't work with these programs. Personally though, if I did, I doubt I'd work with them.

Thing is though and as an example. Bob is an affiliate and his site might do really well with ABC casino. His buddy Jack has a site too. While both these sites attract similar players and target the same niche, Jack can't covert to save himself with ABC casino. But XYZ casino does exceptionally well for him. But his mate Bob thinks XYZ casino is crap cause he can't make anything with them.

The point I'm making, you can ask what are the best places to promote but it's best to trial and error. First point of call would be try the Certified AGD casinos.

I understand what you are saying, although I didn't mean how well they convert, but if you had any input on their reliability or reputation. Seeing as you don't run in the UK I'm guessing you wont have experience with these companies in particular.

When you say AGD certified casinos, is there a list or subforum, or do you just mean in general the talked about casinos on this forum?

Thanks again.

 

[KasinoKing]

I've been speaking to William Hill, Ufilliates (888.com), and iAffiliates (Mansion). I'm wondering what your thoughts on these companies are?

I am now in my eighth year as an affiliate and I have worked at one time or another with all 3 of those companies.
But now I don't work with ANY of them - and I never will again.

They may well be very big well known international brands and they may well treat their players fairly - but my experience and observations over the years has lead me to not be able to trust the affiliate operations of any of them.

Also I NEVER work with CPA. It may or may not bet better in the long run, but I just can't stand the thought that I might refer a high-roller to a casino for 150 bucks when I could be getting 30% of a MUCH bigger figure...

KK

 

[tweb]

I am now in my eighth year as an affiliate and I have worked at one time or another with all 3 of those companies.
But now I don't work with ANY of them - and I never will again.

They may well be very big well known international brands and they may well treat their players fairly - but my experience and observations over the years has lead me to not be able to trust the affiliate operations of any of them.

Also I NEVER work with CPA. It may or may not bet better in the long run, but I just can't stand the thought that I might refer a high-roller to a casino for 150 bucks when I could be getting 30% of a MUCH bigger figure...

KK

Thanks for the reply.

Can you give me specifics on why you wouldn't work with them again? If you would rather not or PM that's fine.

Also, which casinos would you recommend working with for UK traffic? Are there popular networks in the industry which are trusted and reliable? Like I said I'm new in gambling and would rather start off on the right foot with the help of people like yourself hopefully.

Thanks.

 

[CaseyM]

You can see which programs are certified here https://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/ under the forum sections. I wouldn't trust 888, although if you are paying for your traffic and getting CPA to cover these costs you have less to lose. For UK players I would take a look at Sky & 32 Red

 

[KasinoKing]

Can you give me specifics on why you wouldn't work with them again? If you would rather not or PM that's fine.

Promoted each of them heavily for at least 2 years each and with pretty decent welcome offers. (My sites are bonus-focused).

With Will Hill & 888 - according to THEM I didn't get 1 single sign-up, while similar casinos on the same web-page did OK.
So either they are so big and well-known (due to heavy TV advertising) that everyone has already joined them, or they were "shaving" (stealing the players who clicked my links).
Either way, a waste of web-space.

With iAffiliates I got a few sign-ups, but also had two players contact me and tell me they used my links to sign-up - but they never appeared in my stats. (Probable shaving).

KK

 

[AussieDave]

@tweb The casino/gambling industry isn't the cash cow it once was. To put it into perspective. Even a few years back when it was a lot easier to get players... For say 100 newbies who started as affiliates, at the end of 12 months you could count those still remaining on a few fingers. These days even affiliates with years of experience are having a hard time keeping afloat.

Your life and your call but with no seo or industry exp, not to mention a lot of affiliate programs now having horrid T&C's for new affiliate signups. Add in shaving and cross marketing without Btags etc etc and this picture soon doesn't look so great. With all these against you and trying to compete against other affiliates with established sites, all trying to snag far less players, if it was me, I'd be weighting all this up.

Whether you do it or don't, it doesn't affect me either way. But someone needs to lay the facts on the table for you. That's what I'm doing

 

[Guard Dog]

You don't need a ton of experience, but the willingness to learn and to 'keep on' in the face of no signups. It takes effort and time, but there is a payoff in the end. We have a mentoring forum and a group that will help move you along this path: AGD Mentor Program

So - if you are willing to spend a solid 6 months waiting and working, then it is worthwhile.

 

[AussieDave]

You don't need a ton of experience, but the willingness to learn and to 'keep on' in the face of no signups. It takes effort and time, but there is a payoff in the end. We have a mentoring forum and a group that will help move you along this path: AGD Mentor Program

So - if you are willing to spend a solid 6 months waiting and working, then it is worthwhile.

If tweb has another income source, like you have a full-time job and treats igaming affiliate marketing as "part time" venture, I guess he could spend time learning the ropes. But I think 6 months falls far short of realistic expectations. Who knows maybe the guy is cashed up and like yourself, will hire web developers to code things he can't.

 

[tweb]

Promoted each of them heavily for at least 2 years each and with pretty decent welcome offers. (My sites are bonus-focused).

With Will Hill & 888 - according to THEM I didn't get 1 single sign-up, while similar casinos on the same web-page did OK.
So either they are so big and well-known (due to heavy TV advertising) that everyone has already joined them, or they were "shaving" (stealing the players who clicked my links).
Either way, a waste of web-space.

With iAffiliates I got a few sign-ups, but also had two players contact me and tell me they used my links to sign-up - but they never appeared in my stats. (Probable shaving).

KK

OK, great, thanks. I will split test a bunch of casinos and see which comes out on top. I thought the heavy TV ads might be a problem but then again my target audience aren't likely to have already signed up with them. Maybe William Hill for sports betting, but not for casino.

@tweb The casino/gambling industry isn't the cash cow it once was. To put it into perspective. Even a few years back when it was a lot easier to get players... For say 100 newbies who started as affiliates, at the end of 12 months you could count those still remaining on a few fingers. These days even affiliates with years of experience are having a hard time keeping afloat.

Your life and your call but with no seo or industry exp, not to mention a lot of affiliate programs now having horrid T&C's for new affiliate signups. Add in shaving and cross marketing without Btags etc etc and this picture soon doesn't look so great. With all these against you and trying to compete against other affiliates with established sites, all trying to snag far less players, if it was me, I'd be weighting all this up.

Whether you do it or don't, it doesn't affect me either way. But someone needs to lay the facts on the table for you. That's what I'm doing

Thanks. I have affiliate knowledge, not gambling related though but it doesn't seem that different. There are places to avoid, things to look out for, traps to manoeuvre around. Shaving has been around for years and I have experienced it first hand, although cross marketing while leaving out my affiliate link will be a problem, I'll get on that straight away. I don't know anything about SEO, I'm not interested in it and I think I'd be terrible at it as I lack the patience. I'm fine with losing money while split testing and seeing what works, as I see instantaneous results with PPC.

You don't need a ton of experience, but the willingness to learn and to 'keep on' in the face of no signups. It takes effort and time, but there is a payoff in the end. We have a mentoring forum and a group that will help move you along this path: AGD Mentor Program[/url]

So - if you are willing to spend a solid 6 months waiting and working, then it is worthwhile.

Thanks. I'll know in a week or two if this is a winner or not. For me at least, as I'm going the PPC route.

If tweb has another income source, like you have a full-time job and treats igaming affiliate marketing as "part time" venture, I guess he could spend time learning the ropes. But I think 6 months falls far short of realistic expectations. Who knows maybe the guy is cashed up and like yourself, will hire web developers to code things he can't.

Yes, I do this full time. I have multiple campaigns bringing in income, and I use some of this to test new verticals, such as gambling

 

[KasinoKing]

Thanks. I'll know in a week or two if this is a winner or not. For me at least, as I'm going the PPC route.

Make sure you read the T&Cs, because I believe a lot of PPC operators don't accept gambling related content.

If the DO and it's successful - please tell me the name of your PPC company!

KK