Start from scratch, buy or don't bother

[Tom]

Hi All,

I’ve been a lurker here for a while, and have learnt a lot by reading all of your quality content.

Bit about me – late 20s marketer with a steady job. I’m a seasoned sports gambler and have an account with all major exchange/bookmakers. I’m in the incredibly fortunate position where I have a small saving to deploy in the affiliate space. This was raised by a small side hustle being an affiliate for a fashion business.

I have around £15,000k upfront to either purchase an aged domain/established website or start building from scratch. From that point on I can spend a further £1,000/month + any affiliate income on content, backlinks, outsourcing, ppc, etc.

I really want the site to be as organic/whitelist as much as possible.

This is where you guys come in to tell me I am being naïve and it is a rubbish idea so don’t bother trying in an already saturated UK market... I envisaged the site being a sports only bookmaker review site. Well designed with quality content targeting long tail keywords.

I’m interested to hear peoples views however negative they may be

 

[nibnab]

Hey Tom,

I think you have a good budget to start building something. When we started working on our site we had about same kind of budget and for us it worked out, but then again we were 3 people and we dedicated all of our waking hours for the project.

So the real question is, how much you really dedicated time on this? It is very competitive field and getting sites ranked requires lots of hard work.
I'm not saying you cannot do it as a side hustle, but it does require lots of heavy lifting.

 

[KasinoKing]

I’m interested to hear peoples views however negative they may be

My 2p worth - buy an existing site if you can.

Although I have never tried running a sports betting site myself, I think the hurdles must be ginormous...
You would have to put in VAST amounts of work, including daily updates to keep up with the ever changing sports events.
The market - especially in the UK - is massively swamped and ensuring you stick to UKGC regulations could be a full-time job in itself.
On top of that, you would have to work as an affiliate for bookmaker sites, 95% of which have pretty terrible affiliate T&Cs

Not trying to put you off, just be aware that it is going to be FAR from easy.

KK

 

[Frank]

I would never tell anyone not to bother.. you are going into something you are passionate in so, there is a strong chance you will make it if you can take a little pain and be patient.. start from scratch that way you mold the brand into what you want.. 1k per month is low spend but once you start making turnover you can increase that, with sports you will need a lot of $ to compete..

 

[the_dave]

If you do decide to start from scratch and you're relying on search traffic initially don't expect anything exciting to happen for at least 12 months. You have to go into it with a long term approach - almost like an investor. People might post that you need to find your niche and dominate it but 99% of niches in gambling have been found and 'dominated' in the English speaking market (outside of Africa and some other different countries).

I've been an affiliate targetting the UK market since 2008 and I'm not looking to start new UK facing projects right now. I have two sites which launched 12 and 24 months ago and whilst there is growth it's nothing like what was possible in previous times and the investment to drive that growth has been much higher.

I'm currently launching sites outside the gambling sector but maybe include a couple of projects which serve different markets towards the middle of this year.

I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, or you shouldn't do it... but adjust your expectations accordingly and don't dump the £15k into a project and give up 12-18 months down the line through a lack of progress. Also please don't spend a high proportion of that on design and development (one of the biggest mistakes possible when starting out imo). Bulk of your spend should be content and links - there's plenty of wordpress themes which can be modded for what you need initially.

 

[NDG]

Do as much research as you can before jumping in. The biggest mistake is that people get excited about the
possibilities, jump into the game.. and then they end up making many mistakes that cost time and money.

Most affiliates end up quitting before they make any money.. because in the beginning, it takes a lot of research,
hard work, sleepless nights, etc.. to get things going.. and then patience while you wait months for some revenue.

Money can help to speed things up, or at least cut back on the time it takes to develop a good web site.. but, the
most important thing is not money.. its the drive, the passion for this industry, and the determination to succeed.

 

[AussieDave]

the most important thing is not money.. its the drive, the passion for this industry, and the determination to succeed.

I don't promote sportbooks, but been doing the casino affiliate gig for literally years on end. Having the knowledge as a punter, your miles head right there. You could look around and buy a site for £5K, leaving you £10K as a buffer. But, you'd need to make sure your purchasing dollars are well spent. A marketable Brand (aged domain) which is easy to remember, is optimal.

Least going this way, you've got traffic straight away. From there you can put your own passion into the site, and grow it. Though, as other members have said, it take a LOT of work. Long hours, weekends, times when you just have say: sorry but I can't go out this weekend etc., etc. It really is a project where you have to live, eat and breath work.

 

[TheGooner]

Bit about me – late 20s marketer with a steady job. I’m a seasoned sports gambler and have an account with all major exchange/bookmakers.

Sounds like me in 1999 - although I'd substitute "marketer" with coder.

Back in 1999 - I decided to build my own site following that specific niche the Gooners Guide (https://www.goonersguide.com) and it's been twenty years well spent writing code, and writing and editing about sports events and earning way above my previous financial transaction coding job (which was very well paid).

However in the last 2-3 years I am aware that I have been living off the benefits of previous years signups continuing to pay revenue-share earnings, rather than new signups which seem to have dried up to a bare trickle. These days the number of new signups and players are close to zero - and about 5% of the good old days from 2000 to 2012.

To dispense with rhetoric and put it in plain english - it's tough out there.
How tough? Well we used to get 200 signups a month - now it would be 20 - and only a small fraction of those actually deposit.

What's caused it? The move to mobile is a big cause as mobile tracking is definitely flawed and most programs fail badly, so is the move to VPNs an issue, and browser add-ons that are cookie munchers cause problems, and basic privacy settings that remove affiliate referral tags are an issue.

Basically these days affiliates get paid for about 10%-20% of the traffic that they send.

You are keen. So I'd suggest that you try to get in - because maybe (just maybe) you have the drive and talent to appeal to people and succeed in creating a niche following. But if you are not a coder then I'd definitely buy into an existing project that has the basics that you are looking for.

 

[KasinoKing]

However in the last 2-3 years I am aware that I have been living off the benefits of previous years signups continuing to pay revenue-share earnings, rather than new signups which seem to have dried up to a bare trickle. These days the number of new signups and players are close to zero - and about 5% of the good old days from 2000 to 2012.

To dispense with rhetoric and put it in plain english - it's tough out there.
How tough? Well we used to get 200 signups a month - now it would be 20 - and only a small fraction of those actually deposit.

What's caused it? The move to mobile is a big cause as mobile tracking is definitely flawed and most programs fail badly, so is the move to VPNs an issue, and browser add-ons that are cookie munchers cause problems, and basic privacy settings that remove affiliate referral tags are an issue.

Basically these days affiliates get paid for about 10%-20% of the traffic that they send.

Jeeeze that's some doom & gloom reading...

That is EXACTLY what has happened to my traffic - there was me thinking I was the only one...
Looks like I'd better start planning my early retirement

KK

 

[bettingappguide]

100% agree with everything said so far. It is a lot lot harder these days to make good money as a gambling affiliate. Down to lots of factors like those mentioned and the big boys buying up everyone else then having huge budgets to spend.

All is not lost though. Find a niche, work stupidly hard, expect to earn next to nothing for ages and hey presto. You may be better buying an established site but for 15k I don't think you would get one making a lot of revenue or why would they sell for a relatively small amount.

 

[Aeternus]

I can relate to TheGooner, altough I started up much later (2012). About 1.5 years ago things really started to change and the big companies started buying up pages left and right in my my main market. Today I get under 10% of the traffic I used to get and all the top positions in my niche are now controlled by the likes of Catena Media.

I would say it is still doable, but it has gotten a lot harder after the big affiliate companies entered the scene.

 

[Biti]

I'd first do some research and think about what will be the idea of your website. I do not give a very generic website, started in 2019, with not loads of resources any chance to score.

1.000 / month is not too much when you want to do PPC, buying backlinks, buy content and outsource other things.

With a very generic website without any outstanding content, you will have no chance against super affiliates do the same but with a factor 100 and have complete SEO-teams that balance on the edge to spam SERPs.

I'd say with a good idea or a good niche, it's still possible to earn a good income, even in the UK market. It must just not be a website like 100's of others already are having years. Hence a niche or a different market.

Once you've done research and have an idea, I think the best is looking if there's some website to buy that fits with the idea. If it has some age, a clean backlink profile and ok content, it's a good basic. Otherwise, start from scratch on.

 

[Casinoer Danmark]

Well designed with quality content targeting long tail keywords.

Do as much research as you can before jumping in. The biggest mistake is that people get excited about the
possibilities, jump into the game.. and then they end up making many mistakes that cost time and money.

Exactly. Research long tail keywords and go for the long tails. I even recommend that you narrow down to a certain sport for your sport book reviews. In that case, you can build authority within your field; niche competence is usually something the super affiliates do not have.

I'd spend all of your 15k on links.

 

[AussiePunter]

Hi All,

I’ve been a lurker here for a while, and have learnt a lot by reading all of your quality content.

Bit about me – late 20s marketer with a steady job. I’m a seasoned sports gambler and have an account with all major exchange/bookmakers. I’m in the incredibly fortunate position where I have a small saving to deploy in the affiliate space. This was raised by a small side hustle being an affiliate for a fashion business.

I have around £15,000k upfront to either purchase an aged domain/established website or start building from scratch. From that point on I can spend a further £1,000/month + any affiliate income on content, backlinks, outsourcing, ppc, etc.

I really want the site to be as organic/whitelist as much as possible.

This is where you guys come in to tell me I am being naïve and it is a rubbish idea so don’t bother trying in an already saturated UK market... I envisaged the site being a sports only bookmaker review site. Well designed with quality content targeting long tail keywords.

I’m interested to hear peoples views however negative they may be

I especially liked Gooner's points. I think I said something similar in another thread about the pie getting ever-smaller. I don't think this is going to change either, unfortunately. There's also the fact that you have to deal with people who will happily take your hard earned pie with no legal right to do so. But as an individual against one of your countries' largest companies, there isn't much you can do, unfortunately, gambling companies are well connected to powerful lobbyiest, and have influence all over the place. Good luck winning a fight against them.

You sound like you have good head on your shoulders, you've got some experience and you know roughtly what to expect already which puts you way in front of the pack when it comes down to actually having a good chance of making it. I have to wonder though, why now? You sound like your'e not struggling (not that that is a pre-requisite), however affiliate marketing online isn't in its heyday, in fact my personal opinion (which you can completely ignore if you wish, no hard feelings) it's on a downward trend which I don't see the smaller players ever being able to reach the heights they once nay have had,

You would already know that there's no magic way to make money online. From my experience, it's really a lot of hard work, hopefully finding good, decent rolemodels around you to help point you in the right direction, bounce ideas off and help when you get stuck.

If you're like me, you will get lonely, you won't be able to relate to other peoples work and they won't be able to relate to yours, unless you both work online.

I don't want to write too much more - but I do know that if you set your mind to it, you can do it. I will also add one last thing that I wish I had listened to when I first heard it - and again, I posted something like this in another thread, but I think it's really important.

If you can make a service which allows you to obtain your potential clients details such as email (most important), name, perhaps their mobile phone number, and even ask for their general location or perhaps use a free-or paid GEO IP database if you have specific reasons to target offers to their locale, and it sounds like you've got a lot of potential ahead of you. (Make sure you have a privacy policy which explains what and why you collect information too).

Once you get their email, keep talking to them as a friend instead of a potential customer, even if you have to put on some kind of a persona for the sake of your website, Bish the free loving Fish (give me a break I don't know English slang) - offer them free shit, sounds like you know sports, give them a weekly free football tip (Man U beats Chelsea 100-0, goalies no longer want to play for Chelsea after the most recent scandal where neither goalkeeper knew who was supposed to be subbed on, in the end they both went to the pub - You can think of better tripe than that, ay cobber, just mention the Ashes every now and again and they'll be eating out of the palms of your hands) best bet of the week or look up the legal requirements for raffles or free giveaways in your area, get that database on a website and give out semi-regular tickets through your email list to keep them subscribed. It's a great way to get new subscribers too.

I hope some of that helps you. If you do get into it, you'll be learning for life, because things change rapidly in every business, but I've never seen anything like being a self employed internet freelancer. It can be the best, and the worst times of your life, and that sounds like you, then go for it. There's always another opportunity. Unfortunately, fairness doesn't always come into play and there's often no referee you can go to in order to get the right decision.

 

[xecutable]

If you're like me, you will get lonely, you won't be able to relate to other peoples work and they won't be able to relate to yours, unless you both work online.

This is so true. I've tried for probably now years to explain to loved ones what I do. After the changes in 2018 and the start from literally scratch again but 10 years of experience all I heard was "why don't you start working in _______. You are gonna make $X,XXX. That's HUGE" and I just nod and discard it.

People (perhaps not all but most I've encountered personally) have never ran anything on their own, so getting a fixed salary on a fancy position with a fancy tittle is all they know. Not to mention the boredom and hatred they carry for their job.

As to the OPs question, I would say definitely an already established project or at least an aged domain. While Google still says there's no sandbox, the lack of track history and performance record gets their algo to NOT know where to place you and you will linger around for quite some time.

The major companies may have the bucks and the time in their advantage but your advantage is adaptation and quickness. With tons of money it's easy to become careless and ignorant and ignore any updates and guidelines that Google for example considers important.

An example is the other major gambling forum (not to mention it, or bash it) that still runs on http without an ssl. Careless of our information security, Google's suggestions to switch to ssl, ssl as a ranking signal. And why? Tons of money, that blinds your vision and makes you ignorant.

This is where you and anyone else with vision jumps in and takes advantage of that.

 

[Kadabra]

I won't get into the "is there still money to be made" - it's something being asked since 2006 with various answers. I think there is, but indeed getting tougher. And this comes from someone who started in 2014 and missed the good old days.

Regarding your question - it's a good one. I somehow tend towards "no" (not buying) but not in decisive way. So will just give some points here for you to consider.

Against:
1. You haven't been an affiliate - you need to find out what that means. So you still don't know if it's something you really into. Many leave after the first few months.
2. More important: do you have the ability to estimate a site? The prices vary tremendously so you need to be able to see that you're getting the value for your money. Can be solved if you can get an advice from someone experienced.
3. You are a marketing person (from what i understood) and you have passion for sports and sports betting - these are your strengths. Meaning you can build something more unique both from marketing and punter point of view. Buying a website is likely to bring you more to the general trend. (and changing an existing site usually becomes much tougher than just building it the way you want).

Pro:
1. Investing 15k gets you more committed.
2. For me the first months were the toughest - i had no idea in programming or even how to set up Wordpress on the server - so had many breaking points until the site was live. I would work and then drop it for a month and then again and again. But if you are serious - the learning curve is sharp.

Personally, if i was starting now again and was serious about becoming an affiliate - i would go with option #3. Give time to plan my site (in depth). Buy a brandable domain for $10 that suits your interests. And then hire a designer+programmer, pay them 3-5k to set the site i want and happy with.

Best of luck!

 

[AussieDave]

This is so true. I've tried for probably now years to explain to loved ones what I do. After the changes in 2018 and the start from literally scratch again but 10 years of experience all I heard was "why don't you start working in _______. You are gonna make $X,XXX. That's HUGE" and I just nod and discard it.

People (perhaps not all but most I've encountered personally) have never ran anything on their own, so getting a fixed salary on a fancy position with a fancy tittle is all they know. Not to mention the boredom and hatred they carry for their job.

Way before this gig, in another career, I was, for a time, an employee. It drove me crazy. Sometimes I look back and realise... (as xecutable states), a lot of people are satisfied with a "fixed income" aka salary. I'm not. I want to be happy in my work. Seems like you want the same thing too.

Furthermore, for literally years, I attempted to explain what I did. In the end, was easier, and far less frustrating, to simply tell people, I'm a self employed web developer. People's reality is only what they see in their own perspective.

The major companies may have the bucks and the time in their advantage but your advantage is adaptation and quickness. With tons of money it's easy to become careless and ignorant and ignore any updates and guidelines that Google for example considers important.

An example is the other major gambling forum (not to mention it, or bash it) that still runs on http without an ssl. Careless of our information security, Google's suggestions to switch to ssl, ssl as a ranking signal. And why? Tons of money, that blinds your vision and makes you ignorant.

This is where you and anyone else with vision jumps in and takes advantage of that.

Thinking outside the box, is the 'Ace' up your sleeve

Let me say one last point. As others have said, it's a steep learning curve, peppered with a risk of costly mistakes. There WILL be times you'll think of chucking in the towel. Best to take a break for a day or two, then get back into with a clear head. Learn what you can with SEO even if it's the bare basics. Same goes with html, html 5 and some php will help too. The more you can do yourself without paying someone else to do it for you, the better equipped you'll be, when you need it!