SpinTime Partners

Discussion in 'Spintime Partners' started by Spintime-Dave, Apr 6, 2010.

  1.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    Dear Affiliates,

    Finally we have some REAL ANSWERS and REAL SOLUTIONS.

    Due to the free play time offers influencing the numbers on affiliates commissions in a few different ways like ;
    - Month End roll over while your players are in the free spin promotions.
    - Most issues coming from the 2010/24hrs and 5000/100min due to the long time period as well as the size of promotion amount.
    - Currency change also having an influence on the numbers, especially on the big free play promotions which them look more dramatic.
    Rival has managed to fix 100% of the players that were influencing the Wagering profit stats, however it offset the wagering commission on other variables. For the above reasons this is why investigating and making corrections took much longer than expected. Affiliates promoting the free play Promotions, were seeing negatives in commission but this gets reset soon after the time promotion is completed, and was not a problem but concerned some affiliates.

    We have looked at many options and we feel the best way which would benefit ALL Affiliates is to change the commission structures to Rival's ANW which you're all so familiar with {ANW : deposits – withdraws - chargeback – optional progressive fees have been included} as these numbers were not affected, this allows the affiliate commissions and stats to be 100% accurate (avoiding all the above scenario’s past and future). With this change, we will not be decreasing the comm tiers %, making us one of the highest % programs on ANW in the Rival Casino catalog, this way you get your commissions faster than before.

    We do apologize for all the delays and any inconvenience caused during this process.

    At SpinTime Partners, we're going to show our appreciation for your patience and understanding through this lengthy process by paying your commissions at a straight 41% from sign up til end April.

    With immediate effect we will be changing your comm structures over to ANW and will be making the necessary payments upto End March. The stats will be refreshed within the next 24hrs but please allow upto 72hrs and you will see accurate stats and calculations, this will confirm that your payments have been released.

    For those affiliates that don't want their wagering profit commission structure changed to ANW and you want to stay on wager commission we will still honour the deal. But These accounts with need a complete manual audit on a monthly basis (for the above reasons) and this will delay your monthly payments.

    Please just drop us an email notifying us that you would prefer to stay on wagering comm or for the progressive fee to be excluded from ANW.

    Attention New Affiliates : Sign up before Friday to receive the current Tier numbers as these will be changing on Friday 9th April 2010, see details below ;
    Current Tier numbers
    10000, earns you 31%
    10001 to 20000, earns you 36%
    20001 and more , earns you 41%

    New Tier numbers from Friday 9th April 2010
    15000, earns you 31%
    15001 to 30000, earns you 36%
    30001 and more , earns you 41%

    It Simply pays to be a SpinTime Partner. Much fatter cheques coming your way.


    Kind Regards,
    Dave Mann - SpinTime Partners
    MSN : spintime-dave@hotmail.com
     
  2.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    First off, I apologize in advance if my following comments are wrong in any way. I was confused by your email/post so I am replying here because I am sure that I am not the only person who is confused.

    What I get from your statement is that you are now charging your affiliates with progressive deductions simply because it was the most convenient way for you to fix your reporting problem. Unless I am way off base, then I find this to be completely unacceptable. Many affiliates waited very patiently for you to come up with a better solution than this and the only reason they continued to promote your brand was due to the fact that you had publicly stated that you will NOT charge affiliates with progressive deductions.

    I am certain that I am not alone when I say that I do not want to be charged for progressive deductions AND I do not want to wait for a manual audit to be performed on a monthly basis before I can get paid. I want real time stats that are accurate and reliable. I am very disappointed that after all this time waiting this is the only solution you've come up with. There absolutely has to be a better solution out there.
     
  3.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    Firstly : Progressives did not have anything to do with Fixes.
    The fix is moving from wagering profit (game activity) to ANW (cash movement).

    2ndly : Paying for Progressive fees is optional which has been made very clear in our post/email.
    Currently the system default is set to include the progressives. just email us if you want to be excluded so then you don't benefit from jackpot winners.

    Dave
     
  4.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Now I am still confused, but for a completely different reason than before.

    My confusion stems from this thread:
    http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/rival-programs-progressive-good-bad-list-t2401.html

    Spintime is listed under: Will not charge affiliates for: Progressive Contributions, Processor Confiscations

    This is misleading because I was under the assumption that you had taken the same stance as Slots Of Fortune, Vegas Regal, and Planet23 where they are not charging affiliates any progressive fees and affiliates are still eligible to receive commissions from any jackpot winnings that are played back.

    After re-reading your official response - I now see that my assumption was not correct and that I somehow missed this part of your statement:
    Now that I know I will not benefit from jackpot winners if I choose not to pay progressive fees, I can no longer promote Spintime Casino.
     
  5.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    Thanks for pointing this out and sorry for any misunderstanding;
    There will be NO progressive deductions prior February 28th 2010 as SpinTime will absorb these fees AND Affiliates will also benefit from the Jackpot wins.

    Moving forward from March :
    We see that the groups you listed below are continuing to absorb the progressive contributions however, are you 100% sure that they are allowing the affiliates to benefit from the jackpot wins?

    Please point us in the right direction so we can review this matter in more detail.
    If this is the case I will glady then take this issue to upper management to see if we can get this in place for SpinTime Partners.

    Dave
     
  6.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I am 100% sure that affiliates with those groups will continue to benefit from jackpot wins. At least that's my understanding based on their official responses.

    Vegas Regal Response: NO affiliate from Regal Affiliates will be charged on Progressive Contributions! All progressive contributions deducted will be refunded in full. All future progressive contribution fees WILL be completely absorbed by Regal Affiliates. Like our no negative carry over policy, we feel this should be part of our marketing cost and should and WILL not affect our valued affiliates.

    Slots Of Fortune Response: Last week we informed you, that the affiliates would not be held responsible for any progressive jackpot contributions. All the contributions will be covered by the operator, and therefore you may feel secure, when promoting our progressive slots.

    Planet23 Response: 23Partners would like to address the recent processing issue in regards to MC deposits and inform our current and future affiliates that in case such an event will occur again in the future, all our affiliates will get paid in full with no deductions related to the above.
     
  7.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    I can see the operators are absorbing the progressive fees. So u can feel secure!! Fine. We offer the same!! As we explained below.

    Also Planet23 does not talk about the Progressive fees at all in the clip you added.

    My question is: Where does it say you benefit from players that win jackpots and play it back?
     
  8.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    You do not offer the same. You offer your affiliates the option to opt-out of absorbing any progressive fees and you punish them if they choose to do so.

    With Regal Affiliates, Slots Of Fortune, and Planet23, I think it's safe to assume that these programs wouldn't have made the decision to absorb all progressive fees for ALL affiliates without telling them that secretly we wouldn't benefit from a players progressive winnings that are played back.

    However, just to be on the safe side, I'll contact the managers of each of these groups and have them clarify this once and for all.
     
  9.  
    23Partners

    23Partners Affiliate Program Representative

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    Dear AGD Forum friends,

    23Partners would like to make a quick comment to this thread since we were mentioned, and to clarify the issue of Progressives:

    There will NOT be any deductions on progressive winnings from our affiliates.

    This comment comes in line with our policy and recent threads posted earlier in AGD.

    Sincerely,
    23Partners.
     
  10.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Thanks for taking a moment to respond here, I appreciate it.

    Can you please clarify whether or not affiliates will still receive commissions from players who win a progressive jackpot and then play those winnings back?
     
  11.  
    23Partners

    23Partners Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hey,

    Please advise our T&C appendix 1.7: Our affiliate payments is based solely on the depositing traffic. While reversal money is not considered as deposit (not even to the house), therefore there is no revenue generated to any of the parties. For instance with a players winnings of a Jackpot: the player won $1,000,000 and played it all back until busted, it's nothing but wagered money. It should be mentioned, that if the affiliate would have been payed on the basis of wagering, then he would have been eligible for a REV share on this play.

    Best,
    23Partners.
     
  12.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    Any news from the other groups mentioned?
    You should enquire on all groups who offer ANW Structure and are not charging a contribution fee? See if they can answer the questions below with a Yes.

    See REAL answers below on fact.

    Affiliates contributing to Progressive Fees
    Affiliate player wins and withdraws progressive jackpot winnings:
    Upon cash out (withdraw) the affiliate will receive a credit to offset the progressive withdrawal.
    back to the Start of this thread :- SpinTime, YES, we credit!! so your commissions are not effected.
    (when your player continues to redeposit you get a further share of ANW %) in another scenario, SO, with this credit
    When a player, DID NOT withdraw and played the winnings back into the casino, does the affiliate gain their %?
    Back to the Start of this thread :- SpinTime : – YES, we share!! so you get your % share of credit based on their % of overall contributions to that specific jackpot.

    NDN in a previous message you used “punish”, we in fact see it as offering you the benefit in the following way as true partners.

    So, we have researched and discovered, if you are on an ANW structure and not being charged progressive fees, from what we understand Rival brands can’t answer YES to the above questions.

    So...It simply pays to partner up with SpinTime.
    Also just to point out, with the above said. Please review tier number in sizes. ours are very big and more than fair. SO yes we do offer the same!! but optional. As an Affiliate with SpinTime Partners, YOU get to choose.
    We created the program structure as real partners, offering you the affiliate the benefit.

    So please note that we have set the progressive contributions fees for all affiliates as we feel this is the most fair solution.

    If you would not like to contribute to the prog fees, then please let us know and we will gladly remove you.

    More on exactly how the contribution works?
    It's split prorata amongst affiliates in SpinTime. So each affiliate would contribute to the pool at their designated %'s for each progressive wager.
    When a player wins a jackpot, affiliates will receive a credit based on their % of overall contributions to that specific jackpot.

    This way affiliates receive credits much more often and relative to their total contributions. Otherwise, most affiliates would never receive their contributions back.

    Everybody Wins. Like real partners really should.


    Dave
     
  13.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I am still waiting for the other groups that I mentioned to comment on this. I asked them at the same time as 23Partners so I am not sure why they haven't gotten to it yet. I'll follow-up with them on Monday if they haven't responded.

    If neither group can answer "yes" to the question, then I will officially be promoting just Sloto'Cash, Box24, and Black Diamond under the Rival umbrella.
     
  14.  
    SlotsOfFortune-Affiliates

    SlotsOfFortune-Affiliates Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    Marc, I appreciate you for brining this to my attention.

    Let me quickly reply to the questions, raised here in regards to the progressives.

    At SlotsofFortune we do not charge our affiliates any fee for the progressive jackpot contribution. Winnings from the progressive jackpots, which are lost back to the casino, are not considered as a new deposit, and therefore, just like our affiliates we do not benefit from them. However, I have to add, that it’s highly improbable for a player who won such a jackpot to lose it all back to the casino. Usually, these players request for a payout very quickly.

    Unlike ANW, Wagering Commission structure may be opened to certain pitfalls in the event that the program is not handled properly by the operator, due to the inaccurately handled manager credits and active promotions in players’ accounts. Manager credits have been also inappropriately handled by the casinos on other platforms, and I am sure a lot of affiliates here know about this. However, ANW at the Rival platform is a really transparent commission structure in this sense.

    Best regards,
    Natalie Stewart.
    Affiliate Manager
    Slots of Fortune
    MSN: Natalie@sofaffiliates.com
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  15.  
    NDN

    NDN Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    First off, I want to apologize to everyone for making this into a much larger deal than it probably needs to be. However, I don't think anyone can blame me with all of the discussions over the last few months and with every program taking a different stance on every issue.

    I'd also like to thank the AM's for being patient with me and responding to this thread per my request.

    Hopefully I am not the only affiliate that has become confused and hopefully I am not the only affiliate who is learning from all of the recent happenings!

    Before I put this issue to rest, I could use a little more clarification about this particular statement regarding the issue:

    Am I mistaken when saying that the casinos DO benefit from progressive jackpots that are won and then lost back to the casino? If progressive jackpots are funded solely by player contributions, then those funds come directly from the funds that the players are depositing. Therefore, shouldn't the affiliates be entitled to their commissions in this situation?

    Here is a quick example of how I am thinking and why I am confused:

    1. Player Deposits $1000 into their account.
    2. Over the course of their play, player contributes $200 to the progressive jackpot of their favorite game.
    3. Player quits for the day with a balance of $10 (saving that lucky $10 for a rainy day).
    4. So far, the net loss is $790 (with $200 being contributed to the progressive jackpot and $10 left in the player's account).
    5. At 25% of the loss, the affiliate's share is $197.50.
    6. Then it begins to rain. The player plays their last $10 on their favorite progressive game, and on their last spin (which brought their balance to $0), they hit the progressive jackpot.
    7. For arguments sake, this is a new casino and this is the only player to contribute to the progressive jackpot. So, the player won the $200 they had contributed over the course of their play.
    8. Player then plays back these "winnings" and ends with a balance of $0.

    Based on this scenario, isn't this statement then false:

    Doesn't the casino benefit an additional $200 and isn't the affiliate NOT benefiting from this because they are not given their rev-share on the $200?

    This is my thought process on the matter. Hopefully someone can understand where I am getting confused and help me understand why I am not thinking correctly (if that's the case).

    Thanks in advance for everyone's continued input!
     
  16.  
    SlotsOfFortune-Affiliates

    SlotsOfFortune-Affiliates Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Hello Marc,

    The affiliate will actually receive the commission on the $1000 deposit, whatever his tier is.

    So, if he's on the 25%, that's what he'll get paid on.

    Please send me an email, so that if there are any confusions from mine or your side, we'll clear them off. I am also online on chat.

    Best regards,

    Natalie Stewart.
    Affiliate Manager
    Slots of Fortune
    MSN: natalie@sofaffiliates.com
     
  17.  
    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    What if a player withdraws all of his progressive winnings, then redeposits it a month later? How can the casino keep track of this?
     
  18.  
    bb1webs

    bb1webs Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    agreed! what if.

    I know I'm dumb so I will ask the programs to answer a simple yes, or a no, so I can understand what is going on.

    will your program

    a - be absorbing all the costs of the progressive play

    b - will affs still receive commissions from players who win a progressive jackpot and then play those winnings back

    very simple,

    a = yes or no

    b = yes or no



    ...................


    I really don't appreciate any program trying to piss on my leg and convince me its raining and you can expect as much loyalty from me back as sincerity you have shown me.

    What I mean by that is don't tell me that the progressive jackpots are money coming out of the casino's pocket, that's money coming from player's dropping it into the progressive game which is SUPPOSE to be set aside directly FOR these jackpots and therefore ... NO! the casino should not be allowed to view this as a non-deposit.


    GEEZ!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  19.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    a - be absorbing all the costs of the progressive play
    b - will affs still receive commissions from players who win a progressive jackpot and then play those winnings back

    very simple,
    a = no
    b = yes. You will get your % share of credit based on their % of overall contributions to that specific jackpot.

    optional (default as above) ;
    a = yes
    b = no
     
  20.  
    Spintime-Dave

    Spintime-Dave Affiliate Program Representative

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    Yes you will get the comm when the player redeposits. {Comm model is based on ANW.}
    Tracking the process is 100%.
     

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