Should Best Casino Partner be marked Predatory?

Discussion in 'Best Casino Partner' started by Guard Dog, Dec 22, 2010.

Rogue Affiliate Program

Should we mark BCP / CB as Predatory or Rogue?

  1. Mark BCP as Predatory.

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. Mark BCP as ROGUE.

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Leave them Certified.

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  1.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I would like a vote on this from everyone available... and do not forget that CasinoBlasters and BCP are one and the same with similar issues:

    Main Issues:

    • BCP sold/leaked player data to the rogue Gold VIP Club Casino.

    • OnlineCasino.com - Was a casino many of us promoted. Changed to a portal and anyone who did not change their links is basically giving them both link juice AND traffic for FREE. The casino was changed to OnlineCasinoCentral.com, which allowed this to happen. The only way for affiliates to know this happened was to traipse on over to CasinoBlasters website and read about it.


    • GoldenCasino.com - If you look at the 'Download Now' page (US Residents for sure, not sure if everyone would see this)... there is a siphoning of traffic to C-Planet properties via affiliate links.

    [quote = BestCasinoPartner]
    Sent to all BestCasinoPartner affiliates on November 23rd, 2009:

    Urgent Reminder to All Affiliates re: Golden Casino
    Although we've been making every effort to reach all of our valued affiliates by phone and email over the past week, we would also like to take this opportunity to notify you, in case you did not receive our previous communications, of the upcoming changes to Golden Casino.

    As you may be aware, one of our clients, Golden Casino, is in the process of being sold. Under the new ownership, Golden Casino will no longer be accepting new players as of December 1, 2009. Please note, however, this decision does not affect existing Golden Casino players and you'll continue to be paid on their losses as long as the casino remains in operation.

    This client's decision does not affect the other 3 brands we represent (Online Vegas, GO Casino and Crazy Slots) as the operators of these properties have reaffirmed their commitment to continue operating within the US market.
    Although the changes are not due to take place until December 1, we are informing you now in order to give you as much notice as possible so that you may change your links and campaigns in order to promote the other 3 brands prior to December 1.

    If you have any questions or concerns, or if you are in need of custom creatives for any property, please let us know.

    As indicated above, on December 1st of 2009 the operators of GoldenCasino.com made the decision to stop accepting new players. BestCasinoPartner affiliates were initially notified of the upcoming change on November 16th, 2009 and were encouraged repeatedly thereafter to update their links accordingly. BestCasinoPartner provided affiliates with an additional 5 month grace period during which time all traffic sent to GoldenCasino.com was credited via an internal redirect to another partner casino. Furthermore, to date, every affiliate continues to be paid in full for all commissions accumulated from players, past and present, at GoldenCasino.com. We see no evidence of a lack of attention having been given on the part of BestCasinoPartner.com. Where and how the current management of the GoldenCasino.com domain choose to divert their traffic is not at the discretion of, nor is it the responsibility of BestCasinoPartner.com.

    As always, we are happy to address any questions and/or concerns sent to us directly at support@bestcasinopartner.com.[/quote]


    • One of our members here at AGD has had some very difficult times getting his money from them due to posts here at AGD (or so it appears). He was finally paid, but the check was not postmarked as it should have been (if BCP was telling the truth to him about 'check in the mail' conversations).


    With all of this and a general discontent within the BCP/CB forums, I wanted to place this poll.

    BCP Forums: Best Casino Partner - Affiliate Guard Dog

    CB Forums: Casino Blasters - Affiliate Guard Dog


    Again - please vote. It doesn't help if we only have 5 votes :)
     
  2.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    BTW:

    • Poll is Anonymous
    • Poll allows write in votes
     
  3.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I voted rogue. I also disagree with the poll options. If a program can bait-n-switch and be certified at AGD then I have to question my membership here. Bait-n-switch is blackhat SEO. They gather the links by promising you commission, then when they have thousands of affiliates linking in they turn it into a portal and pimp affiliate traffic.

    If you woke up one morning and Slots Oasis casino was turned into a portal overnight and no one told you it wasn't a casino anymore, how can that NOT be rogue?
     
  4.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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  5.  
    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    I think CasinoBlasters is rogue simply for the OnlineCasino.com stunt. Getting tons of links and then switching the domain to an affiliate site is very roguish.

    Does a "rogue" vote here count as a rogue vote for both BCP and Casino Blasters? I know the companies are connected somehow, but I don't know at what level.
     
  6.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I imagine the reason the programs have different names is simply because you can't display Playtech stats on a VT affiliate backend and vice-versa AND also the international vs U.S. reasons (BCP was formed during UIGEA passage). But they are clearly operated by the same group of people. When I want to talk to my AM at casinoblasters its Jeff K. if I want to talk to someone at BCP, its Jeff K.... when I want my payment at CB, its Lisa, when I want my payment at BCP, its Lisa.

    The difference is only the name and maybe the legal structure, but in reality, they are the same. They may have thought some legal protection from two separate companies, but they are so sloppy its clearly not going to work out like that. They came in here and accidentally posted the answer to the CasinoBlasters complaint under the BCP login. Why would they get confused like this? Because they are the same people with two logins.

    Of course what "level" probably can't be answered because they hide the owners of both programs. (who owns CB? who owns BCP?) I doubt anyone can answer these questions...
     
  7.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Also what is the voting criteria here? For instance can people signup a new account and vote immediately? Is there a number of post or anything restricting this vote to make sure its not tampered with?

    For example, if a program would bait-n-switch us, I could easily see it signing up fake members and voting fraudulently. The fact that we have two votes to certify a program already marked predatory does not give me a good feeling.

    Are all rogue/predatory labels "voted" on?

    I suggest (for the future) to put these votes in the private section to not "wake up" the offending program - because then they can clearly tamper with vote, alert their big affiliates, urge them to vote, etc.
     
  8.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    And I also now notice these threads. BCP has already been marked predatory about three times? Where these also resolved?
    http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/best-casino-partner-now-predatory-t416.html
    http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/best-casino-partner-using-predatory-term-t477.html
    http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/bcp-predatory-terms-update-t501.html

    And one for Casino Blasters:
    http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/forums/casinoblasters-enacts-predatory-term-t412.html

    I'm not sure why they are not ALREADY showing up as predatory and also why they get a chance to reverse their current predatory condition unless this is just an oversight?
     
  9.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    You can question that if you wish. I am doing my best to outline the issues and get a fair representation of what everyone thinks about the situation. Sorry it is not to everyone's perfect liking, though :)
     
  10.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Even though the poll states BCP, it is for both yes. They have both done the same things and are the same company 'under the hood'.
     
  11.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I can see who voted in the database. I'll check on that to be sure, no worries. They will not be biasing the poll.

    Yes. We typically vote internally on roguing, but that has not alway happened. Sometimes I have rogued immediately where necessary.
     
  12.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    There were predatory designations as well as status changes due to fixes on the predatory issues.
     
  13.  
    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Before one Rogues an affiliate program at least have a representative shown the issue so he/she can respond.

    If we go on like this we may have to launch our own casinos one day.........

    I am not trying to talk things right what they have done but IF they have informed us about the changes they have made so be it, more programs have done this.

    for goldencasino.com we had to change to newgoldencasino.com (I received an email for that also for onlinecasino.com but I can not find them anymore.
    Edited : I made mistake never got an email to change the onlinecasino.com url to onlinecasinocentral.com)

    xxhttp://www.newgoldencasino.com/?c=56039&s=192 redirects perfectly to gocasino.com

    For golden casino I know emails have been sent several times that we had to adjust the links.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  14.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Sorry, you are looking with only ONE eye... The reason is probably because you make money with them. I respect that. Keep promoting them, that's not what we are voting on. It's whether they are ethical that we are voting on.

    They turned an online casino into an affiliate portal and did not alert affiliates. What do you think of their intentions when faced with that fact?
     
  15.  
    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Sorry WCD made a mistake corrected my post, getting older here LOL.

    BTW : I do NOT make any money with them :mad:
     
  16.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I don't like other things that they have done but to be fair this is not correct. In fact read the bit that you quoted from the rep right underneath that statement that contradicts what you said.

    I just checked a link in our database which is still like this:
    hxxp://banner.onlinecasino.com/cgi-bin/redir.cgi?[AFFCODE]

    It redirects properly to onlinecasinocentral and it always has done. No-one had their traffic stolen or given away for free. The link juice I agree they may have obtained some small benefit, but only from links which did not use an affiliate code that was redirected to the new domain.

    While I agree their (lack of) communication and other conduct sucks, it is wrong to say that they stole traffic in this case.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  17.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Sorry something came up and I did not get a chance to finish my post earlier.

    Addressing the 3 main issues AGD identified:

    This is bad. At worst its a deliberate sale, at best its a failure to safeguard private information from a disgruntled/greedy employee. Same thing happened at Ladbrokes a while ago IIRC. Once data is leaked you can't take it back, you can only tighten procedures and access to try to ensure it doesn't happen again. None of which helps if they are deliberately selling the info, which has not been and probably never will be proven. The sad truth is a group can deliberately sell data like this then cry that they were done over by an employee and its impossible to verify or dispute.


    As I wrote above, this is not true. If you login to the casinoblasters site now and get a link for OCC, it still redirects via the old domain. The only problem I see here is a lack of communication, apart from that they actually did the right thing here by redirecting our links.


    They sent an email claiming to have sold the site many months ago. We as affiliates were informed and told to update links - exactly the thing you are blasting them for not doing with the onlinecasino domain above. Unless someone can provide evidence that they did not sell the site, how can they be held responsible for what the new owner does with it? I don't get it.

    And if they did not sell the site, why would they refer players to casinos belonging to entirely different groups where they would only be making a % share of the revenue? Why not send them to the other casinos that they own where they would make 100%? This theory just doesn't make sense to me at all.


    Based on that I lean somewhere between marking predatory and leaving them accredited. The data leak is terrible and the lack of communication is poor practice, but they have since demonstrated with golden casino that they can in fact communicate stuff.

    Predatory to affiliates doesn't really fit, if only you had an "unreliable" flag. ;)

    Disclosure: our sites promote these guys, so yes I make money off them. We have rogued several programs that were earning us money in the past so I have no problem with doing that - I just don't see much merit in the arguments being presented here.
     
  18.  
    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    With all due respect: Casino Blasters operated an online casino called onlinecasino.com. Without telling anyone about it they changed to onlinecasinocentral.com and created a portal on the casino site that affiliates were sending TRAFFIC to. I see nothing wrong with the way Andy put that. By bait-n-switching the TRAFFIC the effect is a boost in PageRank to a portal that directly competes with its affiliates.

    As if this is not enough, as of tonight, they STILL feed out links for affiliates using their new "portal" URL. This is blackhat SEO.

    [​IMG]

    I see clear intention here.

    As for Golden Casino:

    They have control of their brand, their website, etc, and they have the option to let someone purchase it and pimp out our traffic or redirecting it properly. They chose to sell it. With the Casino Blasters brand, they chose to create a portal and compete with us. Golden Casino was a much more high profile situation and people were watching. The casino also closed so they HAD to tell us.
     
  19.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I think it was Vladi who mentioned that the did communicate on the selling of the GoldenCasino.com domain.

    Here is my issue, though:

    CasinoBlasters did this with OnlineCasino.com. Turned it into a portal that does compete with all of this.

    So - are we to believe that GoldenCasino was not just an in-house purchase?? Considering this was done very successfully with OnlineCasino.com, why not with GoldenCasino.com?


    I would love to give them the benefit of the doubt, but when the same thing happens twice in a row (with very subtle changes) - then why should I still believe them?

    Why was OnlineCasino.com changed to OnlineCasinoCentral.com? The first name has more type in potential? But imagine it's power with a shitload of backlinks we all gave it? CasinoBlasters never gave us a reason why they moved - so wouldn't it be to take advantage of the SEO (links in) we all gave on theme-related websites?

    I don't know... I'm very suspicious here and I have a real problem with some of this and especially the fleecing going on in the background regarding affiliate payment.
     
  20.  
    Simmo!

    Simmo! Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    The data leak information obviously isnt good. I tend to agree with Vladi on the onlinecasino.com part though - as far as affiliates go they did the right thing with the benefit of us not having to update all our links (which always gets a groan lol). On the other hand, as WCD points out, why are they still directing through the old domain?
     

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