Rival Tossing Out Whales

Discussion in 'General Casino Affiliate Area' started by bonustreak, Apr 28, 2009.

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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    Not sure if you all have noticed by now after calling large depositing and big betting players abusers, now Rivals have changed the bet denomination on many high variance slots to pennies and nickles no more bets for 20 bucks a go [​IMG] What makes me mad is I had to find out from one of my whales today the casino never even said a word to affiliates.

    So far I know that some of them that have lowered limits are Superior, Thisisvegas, Slot Power and I have no time to look into more of them but this is what she sent to me..
    Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"only superior has done this... I only get bonuses there and at slotocash. Superior was fine this morning... this afternoon (I won 1400 yesterday) all slots are .01 none can be moved up by me.... live chat had never heard of such a thing" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Now they can adjust this per each player? Please if anyone knows anything more keep us all updated.
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    Bonus Paradise

    Bonus Paradise Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    oh man,
    Can this be the reason why i noticed a few times that a player who used to deposit nicely suddenly had the status susp in my aff account?
    When i then asked what and why is susp, I was told this is when a player decided to close his account !?



    Did not make sense to me why a players who has a good run at a casino closes his account, but now after reading your post here bonustreak, I have to say, this could be a reason.

    I just checked my accounts, at slotpower the max. coin size is 0,05 cents
    at Sloto Cash I have the max at 0,50 cents.

    We need to find out more about that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    This is really going to anger me.... Any one of the Rival operators, please come in and explain this new 'trend'. We work very hard for traffic and some of us (i.e., ME) have been increasing our Rival exposure over the last year.

    My income is riding heavily on Rival casinos at this point and this last month has seen my income dive by about 70%. I would like to know what is happening.
     
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    bonusgeek

    bonusgeek Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Wow, brilliant. I have never seen a business try to cut their own throat like Rival. There are a few things they are doing that really just make me shake my head and say wtf.

    I would really like to hear the reasoning behind some of the things they do. I know they have been a successful software so far, but with some of the decisions they make I think its costing everyone money. Its like they can't get out of their own way.

    Please someone explain to me why an online casino would only want nickel and dime players in this business. Maybe they know something we dont and they are using a triple reverse back flip psychology on the players and Las Vegas will soon follow suit and change all their slots to a penny too. ???

    Seriously can someone from rival comment here. We are all dying to know why some of these decisions are being made.
     
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    Rival really needs to get a grip. Bonus banning, banning for wagering too much over time, and now lowering the max bet size -- what is this all about? :mad:
     
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    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    When I compare players I send to Rival with RTG or Micro, it sucks.

    At Rival they deposit $25 to $75 when at the other places they deposit $500+.

    The comissions follow that pattern. It's pretty much a place for low rollers and bonus hunters. Not happy here.
     
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    tryme1

    tryme1 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Hmm...glad I found this thread. That is some weird decision making for sure. If I was a cynic, I might believe this latest move is because the Rival operators are not actually very well capitalized and one serious player could put them out of business. Lucky I'm not cynical, isn't it.
     
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    What Dom wrote is exactly what I'm seeing, too. :(
     
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    slotplayer

    slotplayer Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Last week, I noticed a good player (that has no problem making $200 deposits at a time) suspended and when I inquired, the AM replied they entered their password incorrectly 3 times and to contact the player and say their account has been reinstated. I replied I don't know the player and the AM made arrangements for support to contact him. His last deposits were on the 23rd and 24th.
     
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    WCD Admin

    WCD Admin Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    WOW. I never check my stats. I always look at the overview. We are doing fairly well at a few Rivals, and when I checked the stats, I noticed band and susp players.

    This means banned and suspended I guess. wow. I never have had any trouble before with bad players (at any properties), this is really strange.
     
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    SuperiorShare

    SuperiorShare Affiliate Program Representative

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    Hi Guys,

    Time for us to pop in and explain our position

    As you may already know, Rival keeps an eye on network security. In most cases, it is the best for the casino and for the affiliate (extreme bonus abusers will only turn negative results for both of us). However, we'd like to make clear that it's not a black or white thing for us. At least at Superior, it's a case by case matter so we can guarantee players, affiliates and everyone involved, a fair treatment.

    We understand the nature of the game and we know players must win in order to have a healthy and fair operation. This is no real concern for us. The concern is when we get players that are deliberately trying to take advantage of promotions time and time again. In cases like these, we might get in touch with the player and fine-tune his betting limits and promotion types without denying promotions altogether. In many cases, originally bonus abusers turn out a positive account for casino and affiliate. All in a case by case basis, being selective, as it should be.

    Chris, I know about the account you are talking about and we've put it back to normal. This was a particular case where Rival switched the account status without asking us. This is something we've gotten sorted and we've agreed with Rival to have open communication with Security Dept, so they can give us updates and recommendations based upon player's behavior within Rival's system, but finally leaving us with the decision-making.

    We're always here to help. So please, if anyone has any other case you'd like us to review or if you have any other inquiry, please feel free to contact me at any given time.

    Regards,
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    The last good player I had played at 2 locations, spent about $2k in a matter of days and then was suspended. I was told he suspends himself (which makes no sense to me at all).

    If he suspends himself, then why go on to the other casino with the same software? hmm....... beginning to wonder.
     
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    dominique

    dominique Certification Member

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    Rofl, lololol!

    <!--StartFragment --> [​IMG] <!--StartFragment --> [​IMG] <!--StartFragment --> [​IMG]
     
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    RockbetJohn

    RockbetJohn Rockbet Affiliate Manager

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    Before this player suspended himself at Rockbet you told me about how this player acts. You said they play all the casinos you promote, bet big but do it very quickly then request to be banned from the casino. If you want I can send you the email of the player requesting to be banned due to problem gambling and this is why they show up as suspended. I agree why go to the other software if this is how you are going to play but the player requested to have their account closed. Anybody who does this and says they do not wish to be emailed again will get asked security questions then have their wish honoured.

     
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    RockbetJohn

    RockbetJohn Rockbet Affiliate Manager

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    There is a lot being said on here that I don't agree with, but the first post is alarming a lot of affiliates and I will let you know how I see things and let you know about some of my job responsibilities as affiliate and casino manager.

    For that player at ThisisVegas mentioned by bonusstreak, their limits were actually adjusted back in 2006, however it was not changed back until recently when that player started playing again. Their account is back to normal and based on play solely at ThisisVegas, I don't see any problems. I have sent the change logs to show the date on which this happened and to show that it was done automatically. This would have been fixed long ago had the player continued playing, however the player had just started playing more recently and I did adjust the account back to normal.

    Maybe Rival lets affiliates know that players have been suspended (banned) where your other stats at RTG and MG don't. I could be wrong but players who are suspended because they requested to have their account closed isn't something that only happens to Rivals, but at least if it happens you can see that in your reports.


    If a player requests that they close their account for any reason, we will honour this whether they admit to a gambling problem or not. I have seen players go through $10k in a week then say they are done with the casino. Maybe they have a gambling problem, maybe they can afford it, maybe they felt that they didn't win so they want to try the next casino; it's all possible, but if they email, chat or call requesting to close their account, we ask for a reason and then ask for security questions for verification.

    Regarding player values, they are increasing in the past 5 months due to better processing. but This isn't an easy thing to just switch on, not to mention the large fees operators pay on top of this. Since Dec I've seen deposits ranging from $25 to $400 with less deposit rejections happening. Player values were lower than MG and RTG previously due to this and not because of limiting whales.

    Regarding limiting play on whales, we really don't just do this to players at all. If this is happening, usually there is a good reason behind it and the common one is bonus abuse - and this isn't what I call a whale. VIP retention - I personally take care of myself at Rockbet, and if Rivals really did start to limit play on whales we would probably be out of business long ago, however Rival is 3 years strong and getting stronger. Just to re-iterate what SuperiorShare said, Rival do security checks on players and also check for bonus abuse. If a player systematically abuses bonuses, usually by consistently wagering the minimum and cashing out, then they might have their account limited. Of late, more operators are just choosing to limit the # of promotions, that's all.

    If I see a bonus hunter at the casino I will limit the # of bonuses they will get, whereas before I would have done that plus limited their deposit and cashout limits as well. If I see a whale I will update their account and treat them right. If they ask me to close their account for any reason, I will. Also, I have mentioned to Rival about implementing something where, if a player requests to close their account at one Rival, then to do it at all Rivals if the reason is problem gambling. This will eliminate the opportunity for a player to use the “problem gambling” excuse just to close their account for any old reason so they can then move onto the next Rival casino to do the same thing. IMO this protects not only our brands, but also protects the affiliate from incurring any chargebacks further down the track.

    If anybody wants me to review their players and their affiliate account (including suspended accounts) let me know. This isn't a common thing but it does happen over time, especially if you accumulate a lot of players. If you want to hear how I do acquisition strategies, VIP retention and monitoring of bonus abuse, I will either do that in person or over the phone. I might do a last minute booking to AAC but not sure if I will be there and not sure if I will have much time in the next week to respond to this thread, but I'll do my best to stay on top of it. If any affiliate has any concerns please let me know. I do know that Rival are doing better in terms of traffic, retention and acquisition, and the stats at this moment have never been better.

    John
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Hey John.

    Great post, BTW. Great post by Superiorshare too.

    Regarding my player... I heard about the suspending of his own account about 2 minutes before I told you that (In our IM chat). I was chatting with another casino and asked if it was the same player as I had at another Rival. Since we can see partial player names and they matched - I was curious.

    So - that's why I mentioned it... and after hearing strange tales, thought to bring it up.

    It's always confusing (I think to everyone) why this happens. I don't need to see an email to prove it, though :) I trust you, of course. Just don't understand the mentality of such players ;)
     

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