Removing Revenue Giants

[WCD Admin]

Since May - Aug 12th

Only 15 acquisitions on 2350 visitors (7 were from their slots casino)

Average deposit of the 54 deposits: $33

$484 total profit for me.

= worse than most rivals!

Examples:
2354 visits to Slots of Fortune = $641
1361 visits to Lion Slots = $3140
241 visitors to Ruby Royal = $120
157 visitors to Simon Says = $118
564 visitors to 400 affs = $157

of course these are dismal, too, but good grief!

I quit promoting now because my % which was boosted after complaining about poor results was lowered back.

In addition, I've never heard RG take any responsibility for the poor results, only that "We have the best retention team out there" and blah blah blah

Bye bye! -- any other bingo properties that want to get on my site might want to start PMing me. Not so worried about losing Slots-Pillage and Win-None casino.

OH, one last thing and I direct this also to C-Planet. There is something called EMAIL. Use it. Stop this back-end support system, what do you think we're all made out of? TIME? are you kidding me? get with 21st century and send us an email. I'd have taken you down already except you use your "stealthy" private messaging system which don't send a copy to my mailbox 8) and about my commission? that don't deserve an email?

We'll see how good the retention is (that they brag about when you complain about results) --- wonder how much I'll make in the coming months with the great retention... I will be sure to let you know!

 

[geobonus]

very bed story I had same problem with paddypower and quited them

 

[WCD Admin]

Actually I think I'll just move them back rather than remove them. At least they pay. But I'm definitely taking some of the exposure away.

 

[michael26a]

I'm definitely not going to add Revenue Giants then. I might just focus on the handful of casinos that actually work. Hopefully some new ones will enter the market soon that work well.

 

[ocportal]

Thanks for sharing this info, I don't work with them and will stay away.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Actually I think I'll just move them back rather than remove them. At least they pay. But I'm definitely taking some of the exposure away.

That's probably best considering Winward ARE STILL HITTING THE CRACK PIPE!

Another reason we still have them on our Rogue List as well.

At least they pay.

Players too? ... LOL...I hope you can actually decipher that if you can actually find the terms and conditions. There is no link on the homepage or in the footer. But after stumbling around a bit we did manage to find the crack pipe terms here:


Winward Casino Online Terms And Conditions Read Our Casino Rules

and here:

The Best Online Casino Bonuses And Free Bonus At Winward Casino

and here:

All About Our Cash Out And Payment Method Rules At Winward Casino


If you are brave enough to wade thru that pile of player terms garbage without stopping to puke along the way then my hats off to ya as a player!

After careful consideration, I think they will stay on our Rogue List for awhile.


Quote from a player: "Keep your bonus and keep your games. I'll play where the rules make sense."


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[WCD Admin]

As always, thanks for keeping me in line. going to put up the not-recommended text on that...

LOL so thats how they retain them.

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

As always, thanks for keeping me in line. going to put up the not-recommended text on that...

LOL so thats how they retain them.

LOL, Exactly WCD

They are the Captains of the Online Casino Industry in terms of: complicate, disconcert, frustrate, embarrass, disarray, disorder, encumber and mainly CONFUSE.

I reckon that's a good plan though for the Casinos & Bingo Rooms in their group but certainly not player friendly in anything at all close to layman terms.

It would most likely take a team Harvard Law School grads along with a few neuro scientists to clearly understand those pages of terms there!

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[TheGamblingGuru]

Back in 'the day' they kept it simple for customers/players...

Winward Casino - Casino Policies

Don't really know why they went so wrong in complicating all aspects of gaming at their establishments though...it's really sad.

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[MissM]

Reply to WCD Admin

Hello WCD Admin,

Few facts first my friend;

You are sending mainly Bingo traffic, which is not converted so well due to the type of visitors you attract, it is more casino oriented and not Bingo oriented.

Bingo players average transaction amount can be at $33, the min deposit. New players can make a deposit tranx as lower as $9.99 as well. Casino players obviously have a higher average transaction amount.

Perhaps if you would value a partnership you would contact me to discuss how to improve things, I would then tell you that if you want a better results we also have 7 more casino clients but you chose to promote only two that are using the previous platform, while I encourage my affiliates to promote the casino clients with the new software as the conversion and retention there are much better. But you thought a post will get a better solution, I doubt it.

Another thing you missed is the traffic you sent is at low quality, look at your chargeback column and see for yourself, no one likes chargeback / fraudulent players, not us and not the operators in fact you shouldn’t like it either, and if same affiliate continues to send fraudulent players eventually his account will be closed, unless it was an innocent coincident. But in your case 5 out of 15 acquisitions were fraudulent players that ended up charging back their deposits, and this is only May till Aug 12^th as you referred to as well in your example. To explain further you contribute 9% chargeback ratio of the total deposits, this is insane.

Also, Cplanet is not related to us and if you wish to speak about another program I suggest give them their own post and option to explain themselves.

I value my partnership with all my affiliates. They are my partners and most of them also my good friends. I understand their hard work and dedication and those that know me know I will do all I can to make things right, if the conversion on a specific account is lower than usual, I’ll be pushing everybody to get our traffic converted and maximize the earnings.

If you wish to talk about it in private you have my details.

Cheers, Malci

 

[MissM]

TheGamblingGuru, with all due respect the industry went through so many things since 2000, I dont think it is right to compare the site (or any site) to 2000.

 

[MissM]

michael26a and ocportal
if you wish to try Revenue Giants the team and I will be happy to assist.
Regards, Malci

 

[bonusgeek]

Hello WCD Admin,


Another thing you missed is the traffic you sent is at low quality, look at your chargeback column and see for yourself, no one likes chargeback / fraudulent players, not us and not the operators in fact you shouldn’t like it either, and if same affiliate continues to send fraudulent players eventually his account will be closed, unless it was an innocent coincident. But in your case 5 out of 15 acquisitions were fraudulent players that ended up charging back their deposits, and this is only May till Aug 12^th as you referred to as well in your example. To explain further you contribute 9% chargeback ratio of the total deposits, this is insane.

Hi Malci, I don't see where the affiliate has much say in the matter of whether a player does a chargeback or not. It's not like we can put up a little sign on our websites that says "Fradulent Players Not Allowed, Would You Mind Going Next Door So You Don't Make Us Look Bad!!!"

I understand some traffic can be higher quality than others, but for the most part isn't it really out of the affiliate's hands? We all put up links and hope our visitors appreciate our input and that the traffic will pay us dividends. That's it.

Surely you don't think established affiliates intentionally send fraudulent traffic that they know they won't get paid for right? I bring this up not only for what you said here, but my brother recently got an email stating his account was under investigation for fraud, which if nothing else was good for a laugh.

It just seems to me that maybe you should be asking your loss prevention team where they are dropping the ball instead of blaming affiliates for things that are out of their control.

 

[MissM]

reply to bonusgeek

bonusgeek my dear,

In fact you will be surprised, I don't wish to reveal the fraudulent ways there on the affiliate end how to send bad traffic and/or fraudulent traffic, as I don't believe it helps anyone.

I think when you find loop holes and ways to cheat (or at least try to) and this info is shared, you don't prevent it from happening you just make the fraudulent person smarter for next time. G-d forbid I am not saying WCD Admin is one, on the contrary, I do think he happened to attract more than usual amount of fraudulent players, we investigated his account and we kept it running as usual, and it is because we dont think he is fraudulent.

Those we suspend due to account under investigation, that is quite rare but it happens, once we found it to be an innocent coincident we conclude the investigation and open the account, this requires cooperation from the affiliate of course, those who do not cooperate usually are found the fraudulent ones.

Yours, Malci

 

[Guard Dog]

I think when you find loop holes and ways to cheat (or at least try to) and this info is shared, you don't prevent it from happening you just make the fraudulent person smarter for next time. G-d forbid I am not saying WCD Admin is one, on the contrary, I do think he happened to attract more than usual amount of fraudulent players, we investigated his account and we kept it running as usual, and it is because we dont think he is fraudulent.

Thank you for saying that, Malci. You and I both know that WCD is simply a well-trafficked property and would never intentionally send bad traffic

 

[WCD Admin]

You are sending mainly Bingo traffic, which is not converted so well due to the type of visitors you attract, it is more casino oriented and not Bingo oriented.

Hmm, this is interesting, if they are casino players, why are they in my bingo section clicking your bingo properties. Secondly as I pointed out more than half are at your slots CASINO.

Bingo players average transaction amount can be at $33, the min deposit. New players can make a deposit tranx as lower as $9.99 as well. Casino players obviously have a higher average transaction amount.

Yes as I point out over half are to the CASINO property. Yet still I have a very low deposit amount.

Perhaps if you would value a partnership you would contact me to discuss how to improve things, I would then tell you that if you want a better results we also have 7 more casino clients but you chose to promote only two that are using the previous platform, while I encourage my affiliates to promote the casino clients with the new software as the conversion and retention there are much better. But you thought a post will get a better solution, I doubt it.

I did contact you in private via your PM system at Revenue Giants. You did not mention 7 other properties to me, so you are simply blowing smoke. And by the way, these public forums are so that we affiliates learn from each other. What I post is my own business and you wanting to keep it quiet speaks volumes to me. Also the tone of your reply is exactly what I expected. When you lowered my commission back and didn't have the courtesy to email me about it.

Another thing you missed is the traffic you sent is at low quality, look at your chargeback column and see for yourself, no one likes chargeback / fraudulent players, not us and not the operators in fact you shouldn’t like it either, and if same affiliate continues to send fraudulent players eventually his account will be closed, unless it was an innocent coincident. But in your case 5 out of 15 acquisitions were fraudulent players that ended up charging back their deposits, and this is only May till Aug 12^th as you referred to as well in your example. To explain further you contribute 9% chargeback ratio of the total deposits, this is insane.

MAYBE they are charging back because of the obvious issue that winners can't get their earnings paid out to them -- we don't have these issues anywhere else. -- I noticed that you didn't respond to that!

Also, Cplanet is not related to us and if you wish to speak about another program I suggest give them their own post and option to explain themselves.

Who said anything about C-Planet being related to you? No one. What was actually said? They have the same stupid backend messaging that you do and Email is for some reason not used (UH, welcome to 2011 guys) no one wants to login to each program to check messages, what do you think we are made out of TIME? (apparently you didn't read my note very closely)

I value my partnership with all my affiliates. They are my partners and most of them also my good friends. I understand their hard work and dedication and those that know me know I will do all I can to make things right, if the conversion on a specific account is lower than usual, I’ll be pushing everybody to get our traffic converted and maximize the earnings.

that is where I separate things. I run a business not a popularity contest. Honestly if you guys think I built my sites so I could be friends with Affiliate Mangers you missed the boat. We want results, not friends. And I don't recall you reaching out to me to become my friend Malci.

If you wish to talk about it in private you have my details.

Nothing to say in private Malci.

 

[ocportal]

WCD is a very good site in my opinion, I wouldn't believe its traffic doesn't bring good quality players.

 

[bonustreak]

I don't know what is happening I do know that WCD has great sites and I am sure good traffic, also not sure if this has anything to do with it but when I first started in this biz I found casinos through bingo. I think some players get bored with bingo and move to casinos, if this is true does the aff tag carry through? Maybe this is a simple tagging issue and it can be worked out in a nice manner.

I hope that you can try to give Malci a chance to speak in private about your account issues, I don't really think it is my business to read your discussions, what I am trying to say with all the hardship this industry has had it does not hurt to see what an AM has to say to you over the phone or something, this way things are not misread over a post on a forum.

I just wanted to say we just stared working with this program recently and have been happy so far with the results, it could be better of course but we are just doing small amounts of test marketing so that could be the reason conversions are not as we expected.

I do want to thank Malci for taking time to respond, we need that from AM it shows they do take our concerns very serious.


On a side note I have so much respect for bingo affiliates, I cannot convert bingo for nothing! Talk about hard work....RESPECT

 

[Vladi]

Their casinos flat out suck. They have these ridiculous terms where players can't withdraw without making 3 deposits first, and then they won't pay faster than $500 a month. Any player who reads that is not going to play there. Thats probably why they hide it somewhere like subsection 24, paragraph 8, on page 3 of the longest set of T&Cs you will ever see!

 

[MissM]

Reply to WCD Admin

Hmm, this is interesting, if they are casino players, why are they in my bingo section clicking your bingo properties. Secondly as I pointed out more than half are at your slots CASINO.
Yes as I point out over half are to the CASINO property. Yet still I have a very low deposit amount.

60% of your traffic is Bingo. Conversion play a big rule on the relevance of a site. The number is lower as out of 15 players 5 were fraudulent and closed – thus they cannot make more deposits.

I did contact you in private via your PM system at Revenue Giants. You did not mention 7 other properties to me, so you are simply blowing smoke. And by the way, these public forums are so that we affiliates learn from each other. What I post is my own business and you wanting to keep it quiet speaks volumes to me. Also the tone of your reply is exactly what I expected. When you lowered my commission back and didn't have the courtesy to email me about it.

Let me refresh your memory (if you want I can forward you those internal messages);

You contact me back in Jan to discuss how come Bingo can have negative balance then we found one of your players won a jackpot. You asked me if possible to remove it from your stats and I said we do not do it BUT I offered to temporarily increase of your rev share for the following month to compensate for this. And I told you for commitment of higher traffic on your side we can discuss option for permanent high rev share, we never agreed on it.

I monitored your account, a month later your account became a bit more stable and I left the higher Rev Share for another 3 months. I contact you again in June to tell you even though I said 1 month I gave you a higher rev share for 4 months instead, furthermore, I announced you it will be back to the previous Rev Share- so it was NOT a surprise to you as you claim to say.

Regarding the 7 additional casinos, I left a note on each affiliate account at the top of the page.

Plus I announced it twice on our newsletters:

Feb edition:
<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0cm; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-noshow:yes; color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> Revenue Giants - Hot News for February 2011!

And again in April edition:

<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0cm; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-noshow:yes; color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> Revenue Giants April Newsletter

And re what you write on forums, of course you can write whatever you want, we all can, I just think if you do you shall use accurate info, write in a respectful manner, but first if a business is important to you at least try to work it out with the person/program before you go on forums. That is my opinion.

MAYBE they are charging back because of the obvious issue that winners can't get their earnings paid out to them -- we don't have these issues anywhere else. -- I noticed that you didn't respond to that!

There are hostile chargebacks and there are ”friendly” ones (that usually are handled by a simple refund), but those hostile chb are a complete fraud and there is nothing to do with the sites. e.g credit card thefts etc.

Who said anything about C-Planet being related to you? No one. What was actually said? They have the same stupid backend messaging that you do and Email is for some reason not used (UH, welcome to 2011 guys) no one wants to login to each program to check messages, what do you think we are made out of TIME? (apparently you didn't read my note very closely)

You mentioned them on your first post.
for your information; our communication channels varies as follow; email, Tel, IM (Skype, msn, aol), AND PM messaging - via your affiliate account.

It was created to give all possible available options to our affiliates; you only used one channel it doesn’t mean that is the only available option. (Shall I welcome you to the 2011 and the several communication channels that exist?)

that is where I separate things. I run a business not a popularity contest. Honestly if you guys think I built my sites so I could be friends with Affiliate Mangers you missed the boat. We want results, not friends. And I don't recall you reaching out to me to become my friend Malci.
Nothing to say in private Malci.

I said most of my affiliates are my friends as well and I am very happy to run my business this way. However, you don’t have to be one, but there is no need to be rude and childish about it, I take my business very seriously if you wish to discuss it further you know where to find me.


Regards, Malci