Question about negitive carry over....

[josh]

Hi Guys,

Just after a bit of advice on an issue with Negative Carry over...

Here is the situation..

I am promoting a "Top Game" casino and they the "no negative carry over policy".

Last month I had a player that won around 25k.

This month he lost it all back...

Now as I understand it the casino owes me for that players loses this month even though he won them last month... I know this is a tough break for the casino...

A similar thing has happened to me before at 2 different MicroGaming programs... The first one simply paid no questions asked and the second waited until the following month to inform me of a policy I had not seen before (high roller policy) which zeroed my earnings.. pasted the policy at the end of this post..

Now I was expecting the Top Game casino to pay me as they do not have such a policy, but I just received a polite email:

" I wanted to get in touch with you and let you know that we are having a problem due to Topgame not yet having implemented a couple of changes in their affiliate software on which we run. What is happening right now is that they have not separated the calculations of real money from bonus wagered money. Due to this and the fact one player turned a huge amount of bonus wins into real money loss. (the player won huge on bonus, then it was turned to real and then he lost it all and this is now showing as 25k net gaming.) your commission is showing incorrectly as more than 10,000 when it should be under 1000.

As a veteran affiliate I am sure you can understand this and I hope you will not hold it against us in future dealings. We are dependent on Topgame to make sure things are implemented and cannot alas do it ourselves. I do feel terrible about this whole issue and I do want to compensate you as this is after all our mistake and not yours and so I have set your commissions for Jan/Feb to (20% higher)% of real net gaming. (will be manually calculated and wired to you)

Once again my apologies for the mistake and I will of course keep you informed as to when it will be remedied in the system."

What do you think I should do?




High-Roller Policy
1. In any given month, if an individual player generates a negative net win of at least $10,000 ('high-roller'), and the aggregate net win in that month (for the casino) for that affiliate is negative, then the high-roller policy will apply.
2. If both of the above criteria are met (see point I) then the negative net win generated by the high-roller will be carried forward and offset against future net win generated by that high-roller.
3. The negative balance carried forward cannot be set-off against other players' net win.
4. If there is more than one high-roller, the negative balance carried forward will be split proportionally between them.
5. The negative balance of a high-roller will be reduced by future positive net win that they generate in subsequent months. The high-roller will continue like this until the total net win has been zeroed then the player shall return to the affiliate account.
6. Affiliates who have qualifying high-rollers on their account will be notified at the beginning of the following month.
7. Progressive wins do not affect the High-Roller Policy as this payout is taken from the Progressive Prize Pool.
8. This applies to all affiliates on Revenue Share or Hybrid Deals only.

 

[Guard Dog]

The 'High Roller Policy' is in a couple of program's terms and conditions. With those programs, they can enact it when they wish. It is not a good deal for the affiliate, but could be worse.

With Top Game, I would be very suspect that the answer you got is the truth. Not because it is a Top Game casino, mind you, but because that answer seems a bit strange to me. It sounds like a justification for not paying you for a player. It sounds to me like they WISH they had a high roller policy, but don't, so had to make something up.

I would ask to see the stats yourself from the backend database. They probably won't let you, but if they don't ask for a screenshot of it all. Ask for that screenshot in a QUICK time frame so that they don't have time to alter data

Just my initial thoughts.

 

[Herd]

I've always thought along these lines

25-35% revshare with no -ve carry over as decent
-> high risk for the casino when it comes to high rollers on higher %'s.


35-50% revshare with negative carry over as a good deal.
-> my earnings are going from month to month, pay me a good %, just in case i have a bad month and need to recover the next month.

 

[josh]

Hi Guard Dog, thanks for the response..

One thing I don't understand is what changes they expect from the affiliate system that would change the outcome of a matter like this?

As I understand it a player won big playing a bonus and made it all cashable last month (which affected my earnings last month)

Then instead of cashing out the player lost it all back.

Sounds pretty straight forward to me... or am I missing something...?

 

[Guard Dog]

Hi Guard Dog, thanks for the response..

One thing I don't understand is what changes they expect from the affiliate system that would change the outcome of a matter like this?

As I understand it a player won big playing a bonus and made it all cashable last month (which affected my earnings last month)

Then instead of cashing out the player lost it all back.

Sounds pretty straight forward to me... or am I missing something...?

Yes, sounds straight forward to me. And I am not quite sure what they are expecting. Maybe they expect ALL winnings off ALL bonuses to NEVER affect affiliate earnings (positive or negative)??

I really don't know... it all just sounds a little too shady to me. I'd have to get a statement from the operator to fully understand this issue, though.

 

[Adrian-LiveCasinoPartners]

What you are saying is very reasonable. You go so far as even to acknowledge the "bad break" the casino has of paying in a wrose case scenario for them (best case for you).

I have been promoting the live game niche for a while now, and I see high rollers a lot. The swings are amazing, and since the re-deposits and player longevity are great, the no negative carry over for my affiliate account at Canaffco has NEVER been an issue. I've had players win $40.000 in one day, and not lose it back for another month or two. Since the casinoa I promote do not have a maximum daily win (like some I've investigated), then the players can and do win large sums.

It's not reasonable for an affiliate program to offer no negative carry over. I have decided to build that extra theoretical gain and pay the affiliates a higher commission up front as opposed to the no negative carry over scenario.

I don't even like the 100% deposit bonuses. Most of the player emails are related to the fact that they can not withdrawal their funds. It's not leaving the players satisfied. It's another example of the "perception" of value that's not there.

I know I am going off the original thread discussion, but I think we have to pull back to a no gimmick market. Let's improve the gaming products so that they sell themselves. Make the product irresistible, and let's lighten up on the gimmicks.

 

[Vladi]

The fact that they aren't even offering to pay you back the money you would have made in the first month on other players if not for that player's win, frankly stinks like an ancient Egyptian sewage pit. They seem all too happy to let his "bonus win" deprive you of income in the first month, then are unwilling to pay you when he loses it all back the next.

The excuse about the affiliate system is freshly laid BS. Everyone knows if a player wins big on a bonus and completes the wagering requirements and withdraws then it is a real win for the player / loss for the casino. So what is the difference if the player doesn't withdraw in between? Nothing. No "tweaks to the system" can avoid this, unless they are talking about gaining the ability to shave your players. If they don't have a high roller policy, offer no negative carryover, and there's nothing in their terms allowing this, then they don't have a leg to stand on. It is their own fault for not doing their homework.