PM Spam & Dubious Site

[Simmo!]

Hi,

Wonder if you guys could comment on this one please.

Members at Casinomeister are (were!) being PM spammed today by multiple users for a site called cashtherake.com. That site is geared up like a "rakeback" site and has just 4 casinos offering 20%+ rakeback - all of them are Affactive properties.

The website cashtherake.com was developed by Walrussize who appear to be an Israeli based company - or at least working for Israeli based companies so pretty sure it's based there - the spammers IP addresses were Israeli too actually - although the whois is anonymized.

It also has the GPWA Seal of Approval and an eCOGRA seal on the site although I can't immediately see it listed as accredited at either portal - that might just be because those portals haven't updated their websites yet.

When a player goes to sign up they are told to "clear your cookies" and sign up using a specific coupon code. I can't see any obvious affiliate links on the site.

I'm trying to find out who runs it so I can politely request they stop spamming. Their "Contact Us" page has no phone number and their "About Us" page is just promo fluff.

Can you have a look and let me know who to contact please?

Cheers,

Simmo!

 

[bonusgeek]

This is interesting considering affactive doesn't show usernames to affiliates. So my guess is it's either an inhouse program or they are sharing the necessary data to a big affiliate. Neither being good or fair for the rest of us. If this industry starts moving toward anything rakeback on the casino side I am done.

 

[rak]

some casinos do cashback, and have been for the past couple of years.

Saying that, poker players and casino players are 2 very different "beasts".

Poker players run their balance like a business, playing x tables, generating y rake, returning back z rakeback. And if they lose a % of their balance, they know they will get money back through rakeback.

Casino players I don't think look at their balance to the same degree?

 

[Cashtherake]

Hello To AffiliateGuardDog members,

We at CashTheRake.com split our earning with the players.
The idea is that players will enjoy up to 75% from our earnings.

On the top of this amazing offer we are giving to the players full support with the online casino in terms of : Bonuses, Cashout etc.

We work with Affactive on this project because we found this company reliable and bettter then other affiliate program that we work with, other online casinos wanted to join this advanture and we decided to work only with the ones that we feel safe and we are seeing good profits.

On top of this, we didn't receive any complaint about the casino from our players , except 1 time when a player made around $9,000 from a $21 NDB ,he expected that he will receive full cashout for this amount , and according to the T&C this is not acceptable that players will win such amounts from an NDB will receive 100% of the amount , I agreed with affactive on this matter on %100!!

We hope that the players and the affiliates will work with us to make it work , we are really sorry if some one received an email/message , we just wanted to share this offer with all casino players and we will try all ways to make this project successful.

Mike
CashTheRake.com

 

[Simmo!]

We hope that the players and the affiliates will work with us to make it work , we are really sorry if some one received an email/message , we just wanted to share this offer with all casino players and we will try all ways to make this project successful.

There's my problem. You clearly include spamming in that and there are at least 3 users at Casinomeister from the same IP/Computer who were sending PM spams trying to lure Casinomeister's players. One of those users actually had the gall to try and use the Meister forum to complain about an affiliate program not paying him!

This is exactly the type of thing that gives affiliates (and the industry as a whole) a bad name. It's unethical in 3 ways: firstly you are spamming, secondly you are trying to steal players from another affiliate and thirdly you are instructing and assisting players to delete their cookies.

How you do business and want to be perceived is up to you but as a moderator who has to go round cleaning up after you I request that you stop spamming the Casinomeister forum.

 

[Cashtherake]

Hey Ian,

Again ,we are really sorry to sending you a message , it was absolutely a wasted email, every email that was sent was privet.

Spam it’s something else , I will be happy to explain you in another time when I will have time because right now I don't.

Deleting cookies - To make sure that they players will receive our offer , they have to delete the cookies, its something common in rakeback and now in casino

Posting problem with an online casino - I never allowed such post to be published. I will be happy if you can send me the post and I will check it.

Good luck to all affiliates !!! If someone would like to advertise our site, we give 100% of our earnings to affiliates, the idea is that we want to help online players as much as possible.

Mike
Cashtherake.com

 

[WCD Admin]

I hate to get involved at all, but you are missing the point and your program may effect other affiliates bottom line. Don't waste your time on the SPAM discussion (we all understand what SPAM is smart guy!)

Good to know Affactive is supporting you as I have an issue with any casino who is going to support this type of crap. I doubt they will be happy when they find this thread.

These tracking codes are set by other affiliates to make a living. It is basic theft in the eyes of most of your peers. Insult to injury will be that you go around poaching others websites and guests using SPAM.

SPAM = unsolicited commercial email; while the most widely recognized form of spam is email spam, the term is applied to similiar abuses in other media: instant message spam, newsgroup spam, search engine spam, blog spam, wiki spam, classified ad spam, forum spam, social networking spam, etc... (sources: ftc.gov and wikipedia.org)

You are on the radar because worse then typical SPAM, you or your agents are using other people's websites internal private messaging services to lure their own member base to your site. Clearly unethical.

Obviously Simmo! did not have any relationship with you when he got a PM from you telling him about your service. (unsolicited) And apparently he was not the only one who got the message. (bulk)

In these SPAMS you're directing members to a site asking players to delete cookies designed to track players to the proper affiliate!!

THEFT.

 

[bonustreak]

Good luck to all affiliates !!! If someone would like to advertise our site, we give 100% of our earnings to affiliates, the idea is that we want to help online players as much as possible.

LOL!! 100% of earnings to the affiliate now that is funny You are not doing yourself any favors in this thread that is a fact!

 

[theshortstack]

Can we get someone from Affactive to comment on this?

I was willing to give them a go but pushing a casino who in turn supports this kind of crap just makes no sense whatsoever

 

[bonustreak]

I would like a comment as well please ..

 

[bonusgeek]

Daniel has been on away for the past week but said he would address it as soon as he gets back...

 

[Vladi]

Things that make you go hmmm

Win Palace Casino offers over 120 games powered by leading developer RTG now with an exclusive offer of 20% from loses , so nothing no lose when you can always win at Win Palace, the real winner casino.

Accordingly, we make sure that you win as much as possible. We offer you Cash Back packages on your deposits as well as your losses. So, there is no chance of losing any money.

WinPalace’s RTG games are not only among the most trusted in the gaming industry, but the average 98.8% payout rate can’t be beat.

 

[bonustreak]

Why can't Rick address this issue he just posted in the other thread just the other day so I am sure he has seen this as well.... Just sayin

 

[WCD Admin]

Accordingly, we make sure that you win as much as possible. We offer you Cash Back packages on your deposits as well as your losses. So, there is no chance of losing any money.

Uh... yes, this is embarrassing. !@#!!

 

[Vladi]

Actually if I could be sure of 2 things:
1. These casinos with a not exactly stellar reputation would pay me when I won, and
2. The people running the website would pay me when I lost

then I'd be in there teaching them why offering an incentive on casino play is so dumb and pocketing a healthy profit. 20% cashback on losses is a license to print money if you know what you're doing. Even 5% is enough.

Seeing as it would be so easy to take them to the cleaners then I strongly suspect that either of points 1 or 2 is not going to happen.

Simmo ... any chance you could post a list of IP addresses that have conducted the spamming at CM? It would be useful to pre-emptively block them before they pick a few new forums to PM bomb.

 

[Ricko]

Hi All,

I apologize for the slow reply.

We were not aware that the affiliate requested to delete cookies before downloading our casinos, We do not support such methods of promotion and believe this is unethical.
We have confronted the affiliate regarding this issue and I can assure you this instruction will be removed.

Regarding the affiliate desire to share his earnings with his players, hey, he can do whatever he wants with his earnings, it doesn't concern affactive.
Personally i think that that charity is a better option to send your money too, but if you want to split it with your players, go ahead, its your money..

Rick

 

[theshortstack]

Regarding the affiliate desire to share his earnings with his players, hey, he can do whatever he wants with his earnings, it doesn't concern affactive.

I think you're missing the point here Rick. How is he able to offer this to his players without some sort of assistance from Affactive?

Surely at the very least, personal player data is being shared with the affiliate to enable him to calculate how much he owes individual players.

 

[Guard Dog]

And what about the unsolicited spam that has been flying about? I think that is relatively important to a 'certified' program. Especially considering your terms and conditions state the following:

[FONT=&quot]You may not advertise the Sites in any way not approved in advance by WiltonBay Limited including, without limitation, the use of any spam method including but not limited to spam e-mails.

And... as part of the termination clause:

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] iii. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We determine that you have used Spam, Adware, or Spyware or have engaged in an unauthorized marketing technique.

and... your anti-spam policy:

[/FONT]

Affactive.com follows a high code of ethics in their marketing practices. In order to maintain this level of integrity, we do not and will not partake in any activity that would be considered disreputable. This includes e-mails, search engine spamming, blog spamming or any other illegal or unethical marketing practices. Affactive expressly prohibits the promotion and marketing of any gaming merchant within its Affiliate Program by the transmission, distribution or delivery of any unsolicited bulk or unsolicited commercial email. We do NOT log any e-mail address of web site visitors. Under no circumstance may an Affiliate deliver Spam or cause Spam to be delivered to any player or prospective player.
Affiliate found advertising any of our client's internet sites, in an illegal or unethical manner will immediately be placed under review and his traffic will be blocked and any commissions due to him will be withheld, until further investigation can be completed. Based upon the results of such investigation, we reserve the right to disqualify such persons from any ongoing participation in Affactive.com's affiliate program and from receiving commissions due at such time.

According to your terms... A lot more should be done to eliminate the spammers you currently have in your network of affiliates. Please resolve this issue quickly. We will be watching this thread and, if necessary, will perform a spam audit like we have done in the past to determine if AffActive needs to be de-certified.

Thank you.

 

[Ricko]

Hi All,

You raised 2 different issues,
first regarding sharing player information with an affiliate.
This is absurd, if you'd knew the level of security the casino is performing in order to keep the player's information safe you wouldn't have suggested that.
I can tell you that we never shared a player's info with an affiliate. I can think of a a few hundred affiliates which are registered to this forum and can back us up on this issue.
Even account managers don't have the players personal information.

second issue guard dog has approached regarding spammers, as always, we do not approve spam by our affiliates and we do the best to prevent it. If it turns that one of our affiliate has broken the affactive terms and sent spam, we will warn the affiliate and terminate the campaign if this continues.

Rick

 

[theshortstack]

first regarding sharing player information with an affiliate.
This is absurd, if you'd knew the level of security the casino is performing in order to keep the player's information safe you wouldn't have suggested that.

I can tell you that we never shared a player's info with an affiliate. I can think of a a few hundred affiliates which are registered to this forum and can back us up on this issue.

Even account managers don't have the players personal information.

You can say it's absurd Rick, but my point still remains - how's this affiliate managing to give cash back to his players then if he's not getting player data?

You can see that there's a discrepancy here between what he's saying and what you're saying. That's what is concerning a number of affiliates.

How is this affiliate able to assertain how much to send his players and where to send the cash to because as far as I can tell it's not possible to obtain player numbers from the network (please feel free to tell me if I'm wrong in that last point, as I'm still fairly new to Affactive).