Income Access and their Stats

Discussion in 'General Casino Affiliate Area' started by Guard Dog, Aug 23, 2007.

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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    So, I must ask.... Why are other affiliate programs beginning to use Income Access' stats package when it has obvious tracking issues?

    I've noticed this issue for a long time and I think others are beginning to notice the same... So, why are other programs jumping on this bandwagon?
     
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    Goldfinger

    Goldfinger Certification Member

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    Good question. Let's say it's more cost effective :cool:
    The controllers' christmas bonuses at Ladbrokes wil be bigger this year.
     
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    "More cost effective" because less money gets diverted to hard working affiliates? ;)

    I love the people at Income Access, but these issues are getting harder to ignore. When I heard that Intertops was switching over to IA stats, I was pretty disappointed. Before the switch, I was getting new depositing players every week, and I was making low 4 figures every month. Bonustreak can probably verify this, because I am her sub-affiliate.

    Under the new stats, I've yet to make more than $10. I'm still making a fair amount from my old players that are still being tracked under the old stats.

    Now, I know IA always says that they only "display" the data that is provided to them from their various partners. However, we had to switch our links from the old Intertops links to the new IA-based links. So IA actually does have some accountability here, since we are using tracking links that they designed.

    I'd like to know exactly how these IA links work, and how they are different from the old Intertops (and Wager Profits) links. Are cookies used? Sessions? When do the cookies expire? One hour later?

    The bottom line is, with the exception of one program (Vegas Affiliates), I can't make any decent money with programs that are powered by Income Access stats. I've tried multiple times for the past 3 years.

    In my early days when I promoted Casino Webcam, Lasseters, Aus Vegas, Absolute Poker, Ultimate Bet, and Sandpiper Casino -- I didn't have a lot of traffic (well, I still don't, but I have more now than I did then). BUT -- even so, despite the low traffic, I was able to make quite a bit more money (in relative terms) from other brands that I was promoting right next to the IA brands -- such as the CPS casinos, Casino Partners, Blasters, Adriches, and Revenue Giants.

    Vegas Affiliates baffles me. They use IA stats also, yet they perform amazingly well, month after month. Perhaps they are using a customized version of the stats, or maybe they use cookies that don't expire right away. I don't know (but I certainly would like to).
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
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    Goldfinger

    Goldfinger Certification Member

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    Yes, I meant that they shave and hence all these programs that changed save on the affiliate expenditure.

    Fair point with the cookies. In other industries no expiry or 1 year cookies aren't unheard of. Usually you get between 45-60-90 days. But I guess IA uses hourly cookies or just a plain rogue tracking system that can be messed with professionally from the backend.
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    This is very good information... Intertops is one of the easiest ways to determine how blatant the issue is. I would be willing to be that there is not a single affiliate able to pull in the same numbers with the new tracking system.

    And LOTS of people went down dramatically like Engr did. I think bonustreak actually changed back to the old trackers and got back where she needed to be. Correct Bonustreak?

    Now - what does that say?

    I refuse to work with programs that use IA stats now. It's not worth it. The traffic is much more valuable than that.
     
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    Goldfinger

    Goldfinger Certification Member

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    The pressure needs to be built up. Programs need to understand that the loss in affiliates will far outweigh the potential savings of switching to Income Access.
     
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    Engineer

    Engineer Super Moderator

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    I talked with the Sara from IA in Barcelona, and basically (according to IA), the problems in the past were caused by the operators not implementing the IA system properly.

    One example -- IA has "alerts" that let them know when a file from an operator isn't uploaded that day. In one case, the files were uploaded, but they were empty, as the operator didn't save the data properly. IA didn't receive an alert about this because the file itself was uploaded -- it just didn't contain any data. IA has since taken steps to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, namely by manually verifying that the files actually contain data when they are uploaded.

    In the case of Ultimate Bet, that was completely a UB issue. The lack of tracking in Firefox was all UB's fault -- it had nothing at all to do with Income Access. UB was set up so that when a player went to download the poker room, Internet Explorer was opened, even if the user was browsing with Firefox. The tracking cookies were there, on Firefox, but obviously they wouldn't be there in IE where the download occurred. Hence, no credit was given to the affiliate if the user came in through Firefox. IA told UB that they needed to resolve this by allowing the download to work via Firefox (not just IE), but I guess UB couldn't afford to hire a decent programmer. :rolleyes:

    IA told me that they would be working more closely with their clients to ensure that they use the IA system correctly in the future.

    Regarding my earlier comment about how I did so poorly promoting Casino Webcam, Lasseters, Aus Vegas, and Sandpiper Casino -- perhaps the issue here was that these casinos used proprietary or unpopular software platforms. In my early days, I had better success with Microgaming and Playtech powered casinos.

    I do feel more comfortable now, after talking with Sara in Barcelona, but that's just me. In the end it's up to you to decide if you want to work with programs that use IA powered stats.
     
  8.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Good research E. That does make me feel a whole lot better about everything. Maybe I will give them a chance to redeem themselves at some point and do some testing over multiple browsers to prove the point.

    Thanks again!
     
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    aksana

    aksana Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I tried to promote casinos from their main programs, and if I see that Income Access adds new programs, I review them and register in these programs directly, because I know that their agreement may be terminated and I can lose my players.
     
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    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    If I understand you correctly (I think I do)...

    You first check out to see if the casino has it's own affiliate program before using IA as the affy program?

    That makes a ton of sense to me... why go through IA if you can go direct.
     
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    UniversalCasino

    UniversalCasino New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    My name is J owner of UniversalCasino. I was emailed by an Affiliate Marketing Director of Income Access and was asking me about my requirements to market their campaign for either Bucky Bingo or BOGOF Bingo programs.

    I would like to ask, if they are safe? I trust you guys more than I trust myself as a starter for affiliates marketing.

    Hope you could help me :)

    Kindest regards,

    Joy
     
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    inspiration

    inspiration Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I always try to avoid programs that use IA, never succeeded with all those brands that use their affiliate backend.

    No affiliate payments thru neteller either.

    Just develop your own backend always better for affiliates that hate 3rd party systems.

    Good luck
     
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    UniversalCasino

    UniversalCasino New Member

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    Thanks for the info inspiration. I think I'll stick first with the trusted affiliates that you guys have reviewed already.
     
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    Simmo!

    Simmo! Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I had a very similar conversation with Nicky and Sarafina over a year ago as I was thinking the same thing. What got me worried was an aff program called Cantor, now defunct, which was found to have incorrectly reported one month (because the operator had erors in their data export) and the same issue others have expressed with Intertops. Fantastic returns on the old system, peanuts by comparison on the new.

    What I learned - going on memory - was that there are effectively two implementations of the Income Access software. There is the locally installed version which I believe Vegas Affiliates use, and the remote version. The first one integrates seemlessly while the second requires data to be uploaded by the operator. My concern was that this created a chasm that the data had to cross.

    I've had some good results since with IA and I have no doubt that the software itself is reporting what it sees correctly but I can't shake that nagging feeling that something isn't right. As a techie who has worked with SQL quite extensively I know that problems can occur in SELECT routines which pull out affiliate data or INSERT/UPDATE routines at the other end which aren't always obvious. You think they are working fine, but one minor coding error in a complex SELECT statement and the numbers aren't necessarily right. Made that sort of error myself and not spotted number discrepencies until much later, especially when working with volumes of data. It just isn't obvious.

    Now, in IA's defence, I mentioned this and was told that they have verification procedures. So not quite sure where to go from there. Bottom line is I trust IA implicitly but the results I've seen myself and read about in threads like this leave me feeling a little uneasy. What I am sure of is that *if* there was a problem, IA would definitely be upfront about it and helpful in resolving it.

    Perhaps we can get some clarification on just how the verification procedures work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
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    UniversalCasino

    UniversalCasino New Member

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    I think this is a good idea. I will try to contact them about this verification procedures and will update this thread for everyone's sake.
     
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    tryme1

    tryme1 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    As far as I'm concerned, this is unacceptable. Too much room for error and/or fraud.

    An affiliate system should be 100% integrated into the process - this is one of the reasons I've always liked the basic RTG affiliate system, because despite the lack of depth of stats, I trust it. I actually don't like it when RTG programs, for example, move away from this system. Same goes for Playtech programs.
     
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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    Correct as did a few others but I still work under the new program and find that is lacking in many ways.

    I also started working with another new RTG brand that uses IA, we did a campaign that I was sure to be able to track all the new down loaders(this is the beauty of having a forum) and was not shocked at all to have to inform my contact that not a single person I sent(over 200) were tagged to me! I had to bitch and moan for days to get everything fixed and showing correctly. IA will say it is the affiliate program that is not using the tools they give the correctly, the program will say it is IA that is lacking etc. I have NO faith in IA software bottom line. I know they are great people at IA, always very helpful and quick to respond but as Simmo said I have this nagging feeling that something is just not right.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
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    tryme1

    tryme1 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It seems to me from what Streak is saying and what I've read elsewhere that IA relies on the affiliate program itself to upload some kind of spreadsheet/batch file to the IA system that provides the right data. Is this right?

    If so, that's shocking. The opportunity to a) deliberately defraud affiliates or b) just get things wrong is huge. Indeed, I remember when SmartLivePartners, I think it was, stopped their affiliate program, there was a huge argument between them and IA on just this point.
     
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    sipka

    sipka Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I'm glad that this problem came up because for some months now I have weird experiences with IA driven programs.
    The bottom line is that I see completely different numbers in the backend than they see and pay to me. For example for July I saw the closing commission was at $450 at one program hence I got only $95 payment because the program saw that amount. So which one is the correct then? And how to make plans with a program that sees totally different numbers than me?

    I don't know that this can be because of the programs or IA, but as tryme said there are so many possibilities to have errors if they have to upload the data manually... Come on, it's 2010! It should be automated fully.
     
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    bonustreak

    bonustreak Administrator Staff Member

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    This is not acceptable as you say Sipka! Hope to see someone at IA come address these issues soon.
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