Grand Prive and eCogra - AGD Perspective

Guard Dog

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Several days ago eCogra put out a marketing campaign which put them at the forefront of the Grand Prive debaucle. For those who are unaware, it is well-documented and easily found in the search engines. For the sake of brevity: Grand Prive closed down operations and left many affiliates uncompensated for their player base. Affiliate commissions were not paid and they opened another affiliate program for a non-US facing casino, Villa Fortuna. With a large player base from the Grand Prive group, they were able to regain 100% profits from their players (and cut affiliates from their contractually-earned share of the commissions).


In recent weeks, AGD (in partnership with CAP-Warren) began looking into a completely independent audit of the Grand Prive system. AGD wanted to become involved to ensure that the audit would be truly ‘independent’ and without bias. Grand Prive was involved in the conversations with Warren and progress was being made. The audit was to be done with an independent auditor (such as Price Waterhouse or similar) and would be overseen by AGD and with Warren’s involvement. We had briefly discussed eCogra as the auditor and determined that their involvement would have put a cloud around the audit {unless AGD/CAP had complete raw data access for the purposes of verification of eCogra findings}. The auditor of choice was being looked into until last week when eCogra sidestepped AGD/CAP with their announcement.


We had already discussed a proper investigative method and audit procedure prior to this announcement. Our plan would have included contacting all Grand Prive affiliates (not just those who submitted a claimant form) in the same manner that a class action lawsuit informs all affected persons. The initial investigation would have been an affiliate audit to determine which persons to contact. Subsequent to the affiliate audit would have been a detailed player audit with affiliate-tag verification and match-up. Upon completion, a compensation/commission audit could be performed. This portion of the audit was to be a 2-part audit: Historic Commissions Audit and Cross-Promotional Audit of tagged players. [This is a rough outline of our plans. Feel free, eCogra, to use this methodology or contact us for a more detailed plan.]


This is the plan we had worked on while waiting for the go ahead from GP.
With all that said, we applaud eCogra’s efforts in taking on such a monumental task. We certainly hope their plans are as detailed as our own and that their success benefits the affiliates that should have been compensated. This should extend to all Grand Prive affiliates, not just those who happen upon the ‘Claim Form’ (located at: Submission Form) and [contrary to the claim form] affiliates should not be responsible for determining the legitimacy of their request. The Grand Prive backend has been down for quite some time and verification is just not possible.


Good luck eCogra and please do affiliates the same justice that would have been accomplished with our plan…


Thank you everyone and good luck to all Grand Prive Affiliates!
 

TheGamblingGuru

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The auditor of choice was being looked into until last week when eCogra sidestepped AGD/CAP with their announcement.

That sounds to me like Microgaming had their hands all over that one and would not let a third party such as AGD/Cap get involved in backend details where they could not have any control over the outcome as they could with eCOGRA doing it.

I imagine in such circumstances as this one here that it does pay off eventually to be one of the founding sponsors of eCOGRA such as Microgaming is.
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dominique

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The main issue with how this s being handled is that there is no mail informing ALL GP affiliates that there is a process taking place and exactly what it is.

Only a small percentage visits message boards...
 

TheGamblingGuru

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The main issue with how this s being handled is that there is no mail informing ALL GP affiliates that there is a process taking place and exactly what it is.

Only a small percentage visits message boards...

Yep, I totally agree with you Dom. If this is to ever really look as though it is legit then there should not be such a short time constraint applied on when the affiliates need to get the forms in for one thing.

The other and probably most valid point is that since eCOGRA is handling this then they should in fact be the ones to make a formal announcement through means of email, snail mail or any of the other formal channels that a case such as this would normally go through.
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Daera

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I had no idea talks were taking place about an audit.

I was really disappointed when I seen eCOGRA's involvement a day late and a dollar short. Then just disgusted to read it from Grand Prive. But now, to know that we almost got a legitimate audit.... until Grand Prive side-stepped the discussion and went on to eCOGRA themselves. What a bunch of clowns.

Thank you for your efforts Andy. It's just too bad they didn't keep talking to you guys. They would have had a lot better chance of cleaning up their reputation if they had gone with you guys and not eCOGRA.
 
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Daera

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It's not too late they can still make things right by getting in touch with Andy and having this all done with legitimacy. It is clear that both eCogra and GP read the forums so I hope they are hearing our plea!


True, not too late yet. And certainly the smarter way to go.
 

tryme1

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Very interesting. I wonder how qualified 'ECogra' is to audit anything at all. The auditors for ECogra itself are KPMG - like PWC, a 'big 4 accountancy' firm. Call me cynical, but I would strongly doubt that ECogra would engage KPMG to undertake this work for the Grand Prive thing.

When we are talking about audits here, we're talking about a very high level of accountancy work - and this is far from cheap. Especially if you are using a big 4 accountancy company.

I don't know where AGD and CAP are with their own plans for this kind of stuff, but if they'd like to PM me, I'd be happy to put them in touch with some genuinely independent auditors.
 

triple777s

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For me, i am sorry to say but i believe they are just blowing candy up our asses.

I mean, isn't "Grand Prive" the ones who are requesting Ecogra to implement this "so called" audit? What a joke that is, why would we agree to any type of outcome from an audit that the "Accused" has commissioned?
 

Guard Dog

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I would rather not completely give up on this idea. eCogra may not be the most independent choice for an auditing firm, but they are capable of creating a proper audit.

I believe that if they take a step back and approach this in a manner in which all affiliates of Grand Prive are contacted, pro-actively, then this can be a VERY good thing.

They do not need AGD or anyone else to make this a viable solution. They only need to have a transparent plan in place so that we may all be informed as to how they plan to implement the audit.

Tryme - I appreciate the information and will certainly take you up on your offer if the situation presents itself.


Everyone - let's try to not make this an eCogra-bashing thread... I did not intend for it to become that. I only wanted to bring our plan into the 'light of day' so that eCogra and GP could learn off of it and implement a good investigative procedure and audit.

Andy
 

bonustreak

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I had a call today from someone at GP to express again how sorry they were for the mailings that were coming to my home and to assure me that it has been taken care of etc.. ( totally different story that is posted at Casino Meister).

So while I had him on the line I did ask some questions for all affiliates and expressed that there is a need to get the word out to all of the affiliates and that AGD would be happy to help in anyway it can. I passed along a way for them to reach Andrew and that all affiliates would like to see AGD in on this auditing process. I stressed as a community we fell that to have things fair there really does need to be a representive of the affiliate industry involved.


I was told that GP and eCogra have read the forums about this deadline concern and this is being extended until after the the first of Jan, he was not aware of the exact date and assured me that an announcement will be made soon by eCogra.
 

nobluff

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This makes or breaks eCogra in my opinion (at least from an affiliates point of view). I also think that form has been purposefully prepared in a convoluted manner in order to deter claims.
 

WCD Admin

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eCogra's reputation as well as GP's reputation are now (seemingly) put on trial instead of just GP and the only way for eCogra to keep face is to serve a fair resolution. In fact could there even be a better situation? They're either fair to affiliates - or they neutralize each other.

Let's hope they realize the situation they are in now (under the microscope) and are fair to affiliates. It looks like inadvertently (or not) both parties actions are now on trial rather than just one. Whether that was the plan or not, I formally adopt it. This is a great place for affiliates to learn how this industry operates. Watch closely!
 

greek39

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Something missing from the equation, you bet! Something called affiliate representation. The best would be someone who serves the affiliate community without corporate teeth in one pocket and affiliates in the other. A Persons whose has always put the affiliate’s interests first without comprising integrity.

Money is one thing doing the right thing priceless. Although there are others running a close second I would hands down, no question, no doubt, pick AGD to audit the audit.

Just a thought

greek39
 

triple777s

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Received this progress update from Ecogra today and thought i should share. What i can't believe is that only [58] aff.'s made a claim??? Can that be right, can all the hard work that was put forth to get some type of response from GP resulted in only 58 claims?

2/F Berkeley Square House
Berkeley Square
London
W1J 6BD
+44 (0)20 7887 1480
+44 (0)20 7887 1481
4 January 2010
RE: PROGRESS REPORT : GRAND PRIVÉ AFFILIATES PROGRAM INVESTIGATION
Dear Pat,
Thank you once again for submitting your claim in the above connection.
The deadline for the submission of claims passed on 31 December 2009, and we will shortly begin
the analysis and assessment of claims using a range of information from the Grand Privé Affiliates
Program database, your personal claim and the very constructive and useful feedback that we have
received from affiliates and other interested parties advocating on behalf of the affiliate community.
eCOGRA had received a total of 58 claims by the cut-off date, and I would like to assure you that
these will all receive the personal attention of myself and fellow Chartered Accountant Sean
Roberts, a senior and audit-experienced member of my staff.
We intend to complete the work as quickly as possible, commensurate with the professional
thoroughness that this audit requires, and your patience whilst this process continues would be
much appreciated.
Sean and I will be travelling to the Grand Privé operational base in order to carry out our
investigations on site, with full access to all records and the cooperation of the Grand Privé
management. Our mandate covers:
* Independently investigating the manner in which the Grand Privé Affiliate Program was terminated
and the reasons therefore;
* Carrying out a full and independent review of the program software and data to confirm amounts
owed to claimants;
* Determining a fair settlement for claimants taking into consideration the potential lifetime
earnings of each affiliate’s respective players; and
* Compiling a full and transparent report which will be publicly released on conclusion of the
investigation.
Sean and myself have both the specialised professional qualifications and wide relevant experience
to bring a fair and reasonable conclusion to the project, and we will communicate again with you
once we have something concrete to report and discuss. In the meantime, if you have further
information you would like us to consider, please feel free to email Sean at seanr@ecogra.org.
Yours sincerely,
Andrew Beveridge, CA(SA) MBA
Chief Executive Officer
eCOGRA Limited
 

dominique

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Yep, I got the same.
 

greek39

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All that work for 58 claims surly there must be something wrong? Well anyway I am just glad something is being done.

So what is next on the docket. Think I will pick on the Virtual Group for the rest of this year lol.

greek39
 

greek39

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Should we make a blacklist page and a ring I am up for it :)

I think after all these years the Virtual Group needs a wake up call. Giver a couple of weeks for research. Then yes lets hit them up the more webmasters who take part the better.

greek39
 
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